Ep 164 – David J. Ebner, Content Workshop – Why AI Is Creating a Sea of Sameness in Content
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Featuring: David J. Ebner, Content Workshop
In episode 164, I sit down with David J. Ebner, president of Content Workshop, a story-first content marketing agency built for B2B tech brands, and author of Kingmakers.
David and I trace his path from a creative writing MFA to running a content agency, and the moment he realized artistic storytelling and brand storytelling are really the same skill aimed at different outcomes. We get into why even the most technical, sophisticated buyers still respond to story, what agencies get wrong when they lean on AI without understanding what good content actually looks like, and why some of his clients have left for AI tools only to come back once they realized nothing was actually getting produced.
For agency owners, this one's a reminder that content is still fundamentally about earning someone's attention and respecting their time. David makes the case for zagging when every competitor is zigging toward the same AI-flavored sameness, and for treating freelancers and internal team members with the same care you'd give your best client.
Key Bytes
• Storytelling isn't a tactic. It's how humans have always made emotional connections, long before it became a marketing buzzword.
• In every great brand story, the hero is the customer, not the company. Most founders have a hard time getting out of their own way on that one.
• B2B tech buyers are still human. They don't need buzzwords, they need concise, honest content that respects how much they already know.
• Selling on fear, uncertainty, and doubt might close a deal, but it rarely keeps a client. The moment they find a solution that doesn't scare them, they're gone.
• AI doesn't fix bad writing. It just makes bad writing faster, and now you have to already know what good looks like to catch it.
• The agencies producing content that wastes people's time are stealing back the one asset nobody gets returned: attention.
• When every competitor is zigging toward the same AI-flavored sameness, zagging with something genuinely different becomes the actual differentiator.
• In the end, all we really have is how we make people feel, whether that's a client, a freelancer, or a teammate.
Chapters
00:00 Why storytelling matters more than ever in agency marketing
00:58 David's storytelling roots growing up the youngest of five in Ohio
03:34 What Story Brand gets right about the hero's journey
04:58 Where B2B tech brands go wrong telling their story
08:28 The shift from creative writer to strategist and business owner
11:15 David's daily writing habit and why pen and paper still matters
13:46 The real cost of low quality content and AI slop
17:15 Why clients ask if they still need to pay an agency that uses AI
21:23 Zagging when every competitor leans on AI the same way
25:08 Rapid fire on coffee, book recommendations, and Slaughterhouse-Five
David J Ebner is the President of Content Workshop, a story-first content marketing agency serving B2B tech brands, especially in cybersecurity, SaaS, and manufacturing. A former creative writer turned strategist, David leads a team of classically trained storytellers who’ve produced over 30,000 content assets for clients across North America. He’s the author of Kingmakers: A Content Marketing Story and a sought-after speaker on brand voice, narrative content strategy, and the evolving intersection of AI and storytelling.
Contact David on the Content Workshop website, Chatter Agent, or LinkedIn.
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Steve Guberman (00:02.134)
Welcome to Agency Bites. I'm your host, Steve Guberman from Agency Outsite, where I help agency owners turn their agency into an asset that they can grow, sell, or actually enjoy. On this episode of Agency Bites, my guest is David J. Ebner, president of Content Workshop, a story first content marketing agency for B2B tech brands. He's a former creative writer turned strategist. David is also the author of Team Makers, a content marketing story and a regular voice on brand storytelling and AI. Thanks for joining me.
Great to meet you. Yeah, listen, storytelling is huge. I think it became like a super popular like industry buzzword in the past 10 years. Most agencies really tried to like hinge off of that. So it's super relevant. And I also think like with like the rise of the robots and how like writers are, you know, shaking in their boots, like it's, there's a lot to dig into. So I'm grateful for you spending some time with me.
David J Ebner (00:32.108)
Yeah, thanks for having me, Steve.
David J Ebner (00:56.546)
Yeah, I'm excited to talk about it.
Steve Guberman (00:58.274)
So backstory me, kind of like a creative writer, turned strategist, running your own firm now, like what was that trajectory and storyline?
David J Ebner (01:08.25)
It actually, I've been thinking about this a lot lately and I think it actually goes all the way back to when I was like in kindergarten. Not to, I won't bore y'all with the details in between, but every grade of school, I grew up in a small town in Ohio and I had four siblings. So like getting the attention of the adults was a little difficult, right? And everybody wants attention from their parents, right? So I would start or kind of end my day. I remember my mom like making dinner.
Steve Guberman (01:17.046)
Take us through every grade of school with that one, please. Yeah.
David J Ebner (01:36.256)
shucking corn as we do in Ohio, something like that, snapping green beans, right? She's doing that work and I'm telling her about my day. And I just keep making up more and more fantastical things that have happened that aren't absolutely impossible to have happened. And I keep going and going and going until I see like an emotional reaction from her. And I think that's kind of where my storytelling journey began is like understanding that storytelling is about emotional connection between two people.
and, fast forward many, years, we're going to skip a bunch of grades. I studied creative writing in school. I got a bachelor's degree in creative writing, and then went on to get my master in fine arts degree in creative writing, cause I was a glutton for punishment, at the time. So, I was going through that process. I needed to find a job. I needed to put food on the table. Right. I had just studied a fine arts degree. Like, what do I do with that? and I started picking up, or being offered a lot of like, freelance copywriting.
writing gigs. And I realized very quickly, like within the first gig, hey, all that stuff I learned in school is actually directly applicable. We call it different things from a creative, artistic storytelling place versus a brand storytelling place, but it's relatable. And I started to find a way to like fine tune those skills toward this application. Then I started talking about it with my friends in graduate school. And before we knew it, we were a couple.
Right. We essentially were like a co-op of freelancers We just called ourselves a company because it was easier to get gigs when we said we were a company, right? That's usually how a lot of companies start And then that's been 13 years ago. So we come to brand storytelling from like a classically trained artist point of view You know, this was before brand storytelling was a industry buzzword. It was about that time Right. The the story brand book had come out like the year later. There's a lot of so anyway, we've
We learned that lesson a little early and apply it from an artistic skill. And that's kind of how we've gotten to today.
Steve Guberman (03:34.968)
Okay, so you mentioned the book, Story Brand. I wasn't sure if it made sense to bring that up or not. And is there a similar through line in how you approach things from like story first and like what that means to how Donald Miller presents it in Story Brand and that kind of, not to call it a cult, but that kind of cult vibe that they've got going on with Story Brand. Like, is that the similar approach that you take?
David J Ebner (03:55.5)
Yeah.
David J Ebner (04:00.684)
Yeah, I mean, it's the same approach really that every story is told. What he has done very well is like break it down for people on like how to use it commercially, right? But there's always a hero of a journey. The hero in a great brand story, the hero is actually the audience, your target audience. It's not you, by the way. That's something that a lot of founders and entrepreneurs and agency owners like me have a hard time getting over. It's not about me. It's about who I help. But yeah, we know I've actually I take it back completely.
Steve Guberman (04:24.652)
What, there's ego in our industry? Get out of here. I never knew that.
David J Ebner (04:30.922)
No, so, you yeah, that tactic of kind of the hero's journey is, it's obvious, it's extremely well known in the creative side. But the application of that commercially for brain storytelling is absolutely in lockstep. And it's because that's how all stories, like good stories are told.
Steve Guberman (04:46.188)
Yeah. So that story first approach that you have, putting it into practice, a like why B2B tech and what do they get wrong in storytelling that you found? This is a great place to hang out.
David J Ebner (04:58.542)
They do get some things wrong. There's plenty of people who get it right too, but there's this cross section of where brand storytelling really can have a huge impact. Certainly brand storytelling is industry agnostic, right? It can be used in, and we have clients across, we've helped, know, nonprofits, land use nonprofits, horse racing farms in Lexington. Like we've helped them tell their brand story all the way to, you know, Palo Alto networks and like the large cybersecurity company. So it by no means has to be in that industry. However,
Typically they have a complex product and they have an informed audience, an educated informed audience. So the need is for concise, like educated content and story, right? Like when you talk to these people about your products, you need to be concise. You don't speak down to them. don't overly like simplify it because they are educated. So you do have to show that you know what you're talking about, but you don't need extra words or word salad or buzzwords to get that done. And that's where a lot of
Steve Guberman (05:31.416)
Mm-hmm.
David J Ebner (05:57.486)
Brands fall a little flat in this space B2B tech they like to talk about the technology and not about how they help people And that that is a typical fault and usually causes people. I mean if your buyer is like only technical Maybe you can get away with that but like we're all still humans, right? We all still binge Netflix on the weekends, right? Like we all still like stories. It doesn't matter if we're a CTO or a you know
customer success individual. So it is applicable across all individuals.
Steve Guberman (06:32.152)
Right. But so like those industries, SaaS and cybersecurity, they're not really known for like super emotional narratives. And so your job is to find that human story and elevate it in like the most complex things. And so I'm thinking the sophisticated buyer who you're digging through a SaaS platform to integrate into their whatever business, there's still an emotional line there that you're, you're working to pull out and connect with them on how do we solve for your pain points or like whatever that through line is. Yeah.
David J Ebner (06:49.475)
Mm-hmm.
David J Ebner (06:58.158)
100 % and there's a lot of faults in those industries. like to fall back on we call it FUD, but fear, uncertainty and doubt and selling on that never really works. You might get a sale, but you're lose it the soon as they can find an alternative that doesn't make them feel bad about themselves. So we're really about empowerment and like, how do you turn that person who is the potential buyer into the hero of their own story? How do you give them the authority in which to act on their best behalf, not scare them into buying a solution? So.
Anyway, there are little nuances in each industry of the faults that they typically fall on, but in the end, the answer is always how do you improve the lives of the people that you help, right?
Steve Guberman (07:38.07)
Yeah. So content workshop is a done for you agency model service. You're not actually holding workshops, right?
David J Ebner (07:45.986)
We do some mini internal ones as part of our process, but not, we don't sell a workshop. that's like, people don't buy a work. mean, theoretically they are buying a workshop, right? But that's not the product. They want a tangible thing in their hands at the end. They don't want thoughts, right?
Steve Guberman (08:01.752)
All right. So you're not like getting 50 people in a room and teaching them how to do this process or how to do it for themselves or how to sell it. all right. So, but you internally, there's a workshop going on because we're taking people through the hour process internally. Talk about kind of like your shift from a creative writer to, and like making mom smile and laugh while she's shucking the corn to now you're a strategist and running a business. How's that shift for you as a person been?
David J Ebner (08:28.137)
That's a tough shift, right? Because I studied the creative aspects of storytelling for so long, and I thought that would be my career. I thought I'd be a professor somewhere and have the elbow pads on my tweed jacket or whatever, right? Or write an Oprah's bestseller book, right? That was the thought. But really, what changed for me and the shift to strategy happened when I was working at the time for a medical marketing firm and I wrote
an article, an advertorial back when they used to have those and they published them in the newspaper. know, if the newspaper is the thing with words on it that came in the mail, like in the mail, the mail is a thing. Anyway, so I wrote an advertorial and the person that cut out the advertorial brought it to their doctor and said, I read this, like, this is why I'm here. And that just touched me on such a human level that I started to realize pretty quickly that everything I wanted to get out of creative writing, the artistic side of it,
was to build these human connections with people. But the problem is that it's a solo sport. It takes a long time. You never know who you actually impact when you write a book and you publish it for the world. When I do this for marketing, I know immediately. I see the clicks. I see the comments. I see the likes. I see the shares. I can build that emotional connection a lot faster with people. So that was always my end goal. Now, to do that effectively, there's always a shift of strategy. For me, it's never just been about the words. It's about how to like...
choosing the right word, also getting in front of the right person at the right time. And that's all strategy, right?
Steve Guberman (09:59.156)
Interesting. so, and I also think most successful agencies are strategy first. And so they're selling that in and executing upon that strategy. And clients want that more top level as opposed to like the tactical execution. Like sure, it's still got to execute, but so yeah, smart shift. And are you still like feeding the passion of writing and like doing the thing that got you where you are now?
David J Ebner (10:23.648)
Every once in a while, you know, I'll write in the morning. write, I write every morning. most of it is just whatever's on my mind. Some of it's creative. some of it's fiction, some of it's poetry, right? I'll, I'll do that in the morning a little bit to kind of get it out. But for me, another reason why I wrote was that I needed to get what was in my head out of my head. cause it would just rattle around up there. Like the idea will rattle around and whether that's a character or a business idea or whatever it is, I've got to get it out.
and writing was a way for me to do that. And I've got other outlets to do that as well too. A lot of it is running my own agency. That's a good way to get your ideas out. The dangerous part now is that I have just a little bit of capital to dispose. So now every idea has got to go to fruition, is dangerous for me. But yeah, I think I still get to feed that itch a little bit, or scratch that itch as it were. And I feel good about it.
Steve Guberman (11:15.584)
Is it, are you pen to paper or typing? What's your daily habit?
David J Ebner (11:20.45)
Pen to paper in the morning. it's just because I'm, it's best not to use a device. I think first thing in the morning, there's all sorts of studies about that. I try to spend a few hours without a device if I can in the morning. And that's always pen to paper. There's a tactile function to it. Also, there's a lot of studies about like the, for something to truly be, for a new neural pathway to be built, there has to be a few things that have to happen. You have to think something, you have to say something, you have to write something. A lot of it's like the tactile movement of it helps build like a
implant implants the thought a bit more when there's a physical activity that's part of it so
Steve Guberman (11:56.14)
Yeah, Journaling is a thing that really kind of gets things moving for me, and my biggest issue with it is I've become I write so infrequently that my hand hurts so quickly and my handwriting is just absolutely atrocious and it just progressively gets worse. So then I'm like, why am I even doing this? But it's not even the need to read back over it. It's more like in the moment I'm like criticizing myself starts out real nice and then by like.
third line, like, what is this hieroglyphics that I'm putting on paper? So, but it's a great habit to be in. Yeah. So, the book, let's talk about Kingmakers. Frame that up. What's kind of your core argument of the book? And then like, who is it for and what's the best utilization of it?
David J Ebner (12:44.59)
Well, it's definitely, it's a bit of a manifesto, right? It's kind of like my story of coming to, coming to a content from creative, right? So I talk a little bit about the application of those creative endeavors and how they work commercially. So it works really well for people who are creative individuals that want to get into marketing or want to make money with their creativity. Most of them don't say, I want to get into marketing. They say, I want to food on the table. I'm going to pay my mortgage. I have the skill. How do I deploy this skill?
So it's really great for those people. There's definitely a lot of strategy in there. There's some tactics stuff in there. I'll say the book was published in 2018, I think. So things have changed in the world since then, just a little bit, but a lot of it still holds up from a strategic point of view. So if you're a marketer who wants to infuse a little more creativity into the work that you put out, or if you're a creative individual and you're looking to find a way to use your creativity for financial, you know.
vibrancy that it's a good thing to
Steve Guberman (13:46.52)
Okay, so talk about what you see in the agency space of other agencies that are doing content or not doing content. Let's call some people out without saying their names. Like, what are they doing wrong? you know, I think we saw slop before AI was producing slop because design agencies were just throwing words on websites and things like that. And so like, are some of the things that you're seeing missteps or trends that are just breaking now?
David J Ebner (13:56.419)
Yeah.
David J Ebner (14:12.878)
There's a lot, right? Obviously, there's the slop, there's the sea of sameness that we get right now. The biggest issue that I see from my fellow agencies is just producing low quality pieces. And that's always been the case, right? Good is good. It doesn't matter how it's created. As long as it's ethical and nobody's hurt in the creation of this content. Good is still good, right? And bad is still bad, right? The biggest...
fault that I can say from anybody, whether you're in house or agency or whatever it may be is, is creating content that wastes people's time. and cause the, the, it's the greatest asset that our audience has that people have is their time and attention. It's non-renewable. They will get no more of it. And if you're putting something in front of them that, sells something that doesn't exist, like you make a promise in like a headline that isn't in the copy or you, just to have a bunch of word salad on a page. you know, that takes that away from some.
And they could be using that time for something else. They could be spending time with their family. They could be doing anything, actually getting the information that they were looking for in the first place. So I do fault people for being time thieves on that front. you know, if I'll say this for anybody, whether you're an agency or in-house, if you're not a pro at it, if you're not an expert at it, there's really no reason for you to ask AI to do it for you. That is going to end with a bad result.
you know, great. I used to be the best writer here at content workshop when I was the only employee. everybody else is better than me now, right? Hire people who are better than you at what you do. that's the number one rule, but, I, I know what good content looks like, right? Like I can create it manually. Great. Now I can use AI to effectively step into parts of the process that one, I don't like that are tedious, that can be sped up, and then use my human creativity for the parts that I think actually have the greatest effect.
And now I can produce more at the same quality I was before. If somebody's not good at content or not good at writing or design or whatever it is, you give them an AI tool and they don't know if the output is good or not. And they don't sure as hell don't know how to fix it. You give me Claude code and I code 75 different apps that all break, which has happened. Right. You give our head of web at experiential studio Claude code and he's a superhero now. So I think I'll fault other agencies for.
David J Ebner (16:35.978)
leaning a little too heavily into production and not understanding truly the quality aspects of it and also the cost of producing items that are inherently going to waste somebody's time.
Steve Guberman (16:46.872)
So that's a great descriptor to say that like the dev shops that are now saying we can just do copy because the robots can do it, but they don't know what to look for, how to properly ask for it or how to modify it to get it to greatness from goodness. The creative shops, same thing that are like, yeah, I I've broken a million apps trying to build something. I'm like, it should just work, but it doesn't, because I don't know how to So that's a really good, what are you seeing from clients that are like, oh, I can just.
David J Ebner (16:52.558)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Steve Guberman (17:15.064)
use AI or are you using AI or why should I pay you five figures when I can, you know, like, how are you seeing this breakdown for you?
David J Ebner (17:23.614)
It's happening in a lot of different ways. At first, a lot of our clients are in that heavy tech cybersecurity kind of space. So the AI systems were inaccurate, hallucinating, not doing a great job of explaining those things. They were ill-informed and knew everything somehow. They're like a teenager. I have an 18 year old in the bedroom next to here. He thinks he knows everything, right? But he actually is extremely intelligent by the way. He does know quite a bit. like, you know, we think we don't know what we don't know at that stage.
right? And that's a problem. So anyway, the
David J Ebner (18:01.292)
I lost I lost the thread a little bit there Steve I'm sorry.
Steve Guberman (18:04.938)
No worries, no worries. Yeah. I mean, just thinking about like how the fear of the replacement by robots or how clients are like, I can do this almost as good. it worth the amount that I'm saving if it's almost as good as what David's team can do? Or are you guys using it? And if you are, you know, there's the thought of I'm paying an agency. know they're using AI. Why am I paying them the same or more than I were, than I was before they were using AI, right? As opposed to.
David J Ebner (18:10.487)
Yeah.
David J Ebner (18:18.424)
Yeah.
David J Ebner (18:32.341)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and
Steve Guberman (18:34.38)
I'm paying an agency, using it, I should get it for dirt cheap, right?
David J Ebner (18:37.142)
Yeah, that's why I lost the thread on this is I'm like, I've had the conversation so many times, it's become like, second nature, a little bit tired of it to a degree. And but I think it's so are every other agency that's out there. So understanding the tactics in which people have been approaching that is actually super helpful. The, again, very technical, no problem early on a lot of our non technical clients were like, hey, you know, we're, don't say, should I keep paying this or we build like really strong relationships, so they will
mostly tell us they're leaving for other reasons. Rather than that, someone will come straight out and say, yeah, we're just gonna, we're gonna shift to AI. We appreciate everything you brought, but we have to cut budget. And then nine times out of 10, they don't produce another single piece of content on their site after they leave, because you still have to do the work. Like AI isn't a magic button, right? You know, it's just not like Alexa do the dishes. It's like, you have to go and do it. And then you have to be proud of the thing you produce at the end and put it on the website. And you get to that point, you're like, this is actually more than I thought it was.
So that happens a lot. Or they produce content that's slop and we see that too. no, whatever their choice is, is their choice. As things have progressed, we're definitely seeing it more heavily impacted on even more technical brands today, large enterprise companies. And a lot of that isn't like we can do this. We can, we don't need to pay somebody to do it. We should pay somebody less to do it. It's more of like executive pressure to use AI. They're being told to use it without any clear direction.
on for what purpose, for what outcome, we're hearing efficiency, we're hearing less headcount, but I think these executives don't know how these tools work, certainly, because they would give better direction if that was the case. I read an article that said chief marketing officers are four times more likely to be held accountable for AI use in a company than any other C-suite member.
It's just as if marketing is supposed to figure it out. and then if they don't, they get fired, right? Like, so we're seeing a lot of our points of contacts leaving, getting removed. There's a lot of assumptions out there. so it's a big, like wash, but we just tell people what they already know to be true, which is, everybody is zigging. Why don't you zag, right? Like I know exactly what your brand down the street, your competitor who's using AI is going to write about because it's predictive by nature. So let's do something different.
David J Ebner (21:00.462)
So there's a huge opportunity to be different right now. The problem we face is that there's this like sea of sameness. Like you have to sift through a lot of junk to find those good pieces. So promotion of the content that you create is more important than ever. Getting in front of the right people so they can see it it's visible if you're going to zag when everybody else is, you know, zigging. That's where the value comes in for agencies.
Steve Guberman (21:23.032)
Yeah. And the point you made is that, I didn't know Alexa did dishes. I'm not looking at that skill, but the point that you made is like, um, when, when they try and bring it in house or if they try and bring it in house, they're missing so much. Like we talked earlier, the strategy part and the upfront part, but then there's the execution. So I'm pushing agencies, inform your clients, tell them what you're using, tell them how you're doing it, tell them what you're doing. They're not going to be like, Oh, copy paste. I don't need you anymore. It's in most cases, that's not going to happen because, the key word you said is relationships. So you've.
forging these relationships for years and a robots not yet going to take your client out for dinner and to a show and to hang out and you know what mean? So there's, there's a lot more meat and substance to the relationship. I think agency account people, salespeople, founders, whoever's doing it need to be like doubling down on like the in-person stuff. Get on a plane, get on a train, go spend time with people, explain to them what you're doing and how you're doing it.
and I do think, yeah, you're, you're right. That marketing is like the bull's eye target of like, just use AI, just use AI and it just isn't working. They're seeing conversions. Hank, they're seeing just the sea of sameness. said just, you know, X, you know, X upon X multiplication. It's insane. so I do, you know, I fear for the copywriter. They fear for all, you know, like how big is your shop?
David J Ebner (22:47.086)
We have 10 full-time employees and about a thousand or a thousand a hundred contractors It feels like a thousand sometimes when I all the invoices come in but we've always been built around this model of like helping people Who have this passion like make money with it. So it leans very heavily into contractors Being able to do that when they're moonlighting or doing something else as well, too So a lot of a lot of writers a lot of writers and and to be to be honest like we do have less work for them
Steve Guberman (22:55.81)
Yeah, yeah.
David J Ebner (23:16.482)
than we've had in the past. We're also offering to help train them on how to use these tools effectively for themselves. could, I mean, they can go work with other clients too, using those tools. So if they're a great writer and they know what good looks like, they could be a superhero with AI if they know how to use it effectively.
Steve Guberman (23:20.642)
Nice.
Steve Guberman (23:32.856)
Yeah. And that's where I was going to ask, like the lead to the question is, are you seeing the scale back on either need to go out to freelancers or internal teams or things like that? Market pressures, just, you know, the year has been shaky. You know, we're recording this about to hit June, 2025 and, or 2026. And for some people, the year has been bonkers in a great way and others. And I haven't put my finger on, is it an industry, is it a service delivery? Like, is it a size or scale of agency?
David J Ebner (23:48.814)
Yeah.
Steve Guberman (23:59.928)
seems to be haphazard all over the place. so I don't know what the trends are, but I'm glad to see things are good for you guys. I think the core of the story is essential in building a brand and everything hinges off of that. So there's so much value in what y'all are doing and how you're bringing it to your clients and the fact that you're training freelancers so they can then take it to all of their executions is beautiful.
David J Ebner (24:24.942)
Mm-hmm.
David J Ebner (24:29.122)
Yeah, I mean, that's all we have in the end. In the end, all we have is how we make people feel. That's it. Like we're gonna not be here at some point in time and maybe we make a lot of money, maybe we sell a business, maybe we do this and that, but like how do we make other people feel? And a lot of that's like our day-to-day interactions. And if I can lift up somebody that needs lifted up, like a freelancer or an internal team member, I'm gonna lift them up, right? That only helps them and only helps me. So anyway, I...
We see that as one in the same. actually see a lot of our, I see our internal team members as well as our contractors as our second client in whatever we can do to make their lives better and solve their problems, we should do it.
Steve Guberman (25:08.44)
I love that man. Um, that reminds me there's a Maya Angelou quote. I'll screw up, but it's like, you know, um, the end part of it is they'll remember how you made them feel. And the thinking beginning is like, they won't remember what you said or what you wore. I don't know what the heck the beginning was, but anyway, um, let's wrap up. I'm going to throw you a couple of random rapid fire questions. Uh, nothing, nothing too hard curve ball, but, um, so, uh, coffee tea or don't talk to me until I've had fill in the blank.
David J Ebner (25:22.094)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
David J Ebner (25:40.162)
Coffee, coffee, yeah.
Steve Guberman (25:41.046)
Yeah, OK. What what's a book that you think agency owners need to read?
David J Ebner (25:47.284)
I literally was asked this yesterday, so it's still sitting on my desk. Unreasonable hospitality. It's from Will Ghidara. Yeah, the restaurateur. It will teach you everything of how to run an agency effectively just as he's built and run Michelin star restaurants.
Steve Guberman (25:52.984)
What's it? Will Gador, yeah, yeah. yep.
Steve Guberman (26:03.806)
yeah, yeah. I can't remember somebody else mentioned that on a previous episode. Yeah. So I'll have to dig into it. What's the first book that made you fall in love with storytelling?
David J Ebner (26:15.438)
Slaughterhouse Five from Kurt Vonnegut. That's when I decided I wanted to be a writer when I read that book.
Steve Guberman (26:21.93)
Love it. David, super grateful for your time with us. Content Workshop. I'll drop the links to you and how people can find you in your book and your services. David J. Ebner. So grateful for you joining me. Thank you. You got it.
David J Ebner (26:37.08)
Great, thanks for having me Steve.