Mike Perry, founder and Chief Creative Officer of Tavern, joins Agency Bytes to unpack "modern heritage" — building timeless brands by mining the past instead of chasing trends. Steve and Mike dig into real niching, staying hands-on as a founder, launching your own product brand, and why this is fundamentally a relationship business above all else.

In episode 151, I sit down with Mark Homer of Grandin Holdings to demystify M&A for agency owners. We bust the myth that you need a pile of cash to buy an agency, dig into why your network is your best source of deals, and talk through what actually makes a business sellable — and worth keeping. If you've ever assumed M&A wasn't for you, this one will change your mind.

In episode 150, I flipped the mic. To kick off Season 4, I handed the host chair to my friend Todd Giannattasio of Tresnic Media — a returning guest from episode 10, and the guy who helped me name Agency Outsight in the first place.

This one's more personal than most. Todd walks me through my journey from screw-off art kid to graphic designer to accidental agency owner, the acquisition that should have been the first of many, selling my agency, and the grief that ultimately reshaped how I think about purpose, work, and what a business is really for. We get into the asset mindset, programmatic M&A as a growth lever, why most founders pay themselves last (and shouldn't), and the copycat goals that keep agency owners chasing someone else's dream.

If you've ever wondered what's actually on the other side of an exit — or whether you're building a business or just a really demanding job — this is the conversation.

Key Bytes

• Most agency founders accidentally build a job, not an asset — and the difference shows up the day you try to sell.

• Programmatic M&A unlocks exponential growth that organic effort simply can't match.

• Buying talent is faster, safer, and more predictable than hiring it.

• You don't need a truckload of cash to acquire — SBA loans, earnouts, and seller financing make deals possible at almost any size.

• Paying yourself last isn't noble — it's a habit that quietly devalues the business you built.

• Copycat revenue goals pull founders into chasing numbers that mean nothing to their actual life.

• Grief, burnout, and life events have a way of forcing the clarity most founders avoid.

• Creative empathy — not tactics — is still the most underrated edge agency owners have.

Chapters

00:00 Flipping the mic: why Todd is interviewing me

02:47 From screw-off art kid to graphic designer

05:30 Starting the agency with ego and no business plan

08:25 The acquisition I should have repeated four times

11:00 Selling the agency and what came after

14:30 Grief, COVID, and finding purpose in the garden

17:10 Launching Agency Outsight and pricing it on instinct

21:40 The asset mindset: building enterprise value

26:00 Programmatic M&A as the real growth lever

30:15 Why founders pay themselves last (and shouldn't)

33:00 Copycat goals and chasing someone else's dream

36:00 Rapid-fire questions and closing thoughts

In episode 149, I sit down with David Wain-Heapy, founder of Prodigy, a company that helps agencies and digital businesses build flexible, scalable remote teams through global talent sourcing.

David spent 14 years building and running a Magento-focused e-commerce agency out of central London before selling it to Brave Bison PLC. We talk through what that exit process actually looked like, why the right acquirer matters as much as the right offer, and how building systems independent of the founders made the transition possible.

From there, we get into the real substance of what David does now: helping agencies shift from an outsourcing mindset to an offshore hiring mindset. There's a difference, and it matters. Agency owners will come away with a clearer framework for when and how to integrate global talent, how to think about time zones, which roles translate well offshore, and what AI is actually doing — and not yet doing — to development teams in agencies right now.

Key Bytes

• Outsourcing and offshore hiring are not the same thing — one is a handoff, the other is a hire.

• The fix for a failed first attempt wasn't better talent, it was better integration — sprints, tools, and cadence.

• Building a business that runs independently of you isn't just good leadership, it's what makes you acquirable.

• The right acquirer matters as much as the right offer — alignment on team and culture is what made a six-month handoff possible.

• East Coast agencies fit well with Eastern European talent; West Coast agencies are better served by South and Central America.

• AI handles contained tasks well, but it still can't hold the context of an enterprise-scale project.

• The people who will thrive in an AI-augmented world are the ones who bring real creativity — the architects and problem-solvers, not just the executors.

Chapters

00:00 Why this conversation matters for agency owners right now

01:45 David's 14-year agency journey and building in a competitive London market

05:10 The first attempt at offshore talent and why it failed

08:30 Selling to Brave Bison: what the exit process actually looked like

13:15 Choosing the right acquirer and making a clean handoff

17:00 Outsourcing vs. offshore hiring: why the mindset shift changes everything

21:30 How to think about time zones when sourcing global talent

24:45 What systems agencies need before hiring offshore

28:00 Where AI is actually helping agency dev teams right now

33:20 Which roles work well offshore and which don't

37:50 Rapid fire: surfing in Bristol, letting go of control, and a risky bet that paid off

David Wain-Heapy is an experienced founder currently focused on building remote teams for digital businesses with Prodigi.

Having sold my digital agency to Brave Bison PLC, I am now working to provide a flexible and scalable solution that enables companies to take control of hiring by looking at a global talent pool.

I have many years experience building globally distributed teams of digital professionals and leading them to help great businesses win in the race for attention and accelerate their digital growth.

Contact David:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-wain-heapy/

http://www.prodigi.team

In episode 148, I sit down with Cameron Herold, founder of COO Alliance and one of the most recognized voices in operational leadership, to talk about the mindset shift agency owners desperately need right now: stepping into the role of CEO and building a true COO mindset inside their business.

Cameron has helped scale companies like 1-800-GOT-JUNK and advised hundreds of growth-stage businesses, and in this conversation, we unpack what it really means to work on the business instead of being trapped inside it. We talk about the operator’s lens, how founders accidentally become bottlenecks, and why operational maturity is often the difference between a lifestyle business and a scalable asset.

If you’re an agency owner who feels stretched thin, stuck in delivery, or unsure how to elevate your leadership team, this one is a masterclass in stepping up and leveling up.

Key Bytes

• The CEO’s job is vision. The COO’s job is execution. Most agency owners are trying to do both — and burning out.

• Operational discipline isn’t about bureaucracy — it’s about freeing the founder from the day-to-day.

• If you’re still the glue holding everything together, you don’t have a scalable business — you have a dependency.

• Working on the business requires intentional systems, delegation maturity, and the courage to step back.

• Strong operators build companies that can grow, sell, or run without the founder in the weeds.

Chapters

00:00 Welcome & Cameron’s Scaling Background

04:12 The Difference Between a Founder and a CEO

09:48 Why Most Agencies Don’t Truly Work “On” the Business

16:35 The COO Mindset Explained

23:10 Founders as Bottlenecks

31:42 Building Operational Discipline Without Red Tape

40:18 Hiring & Developing Strong Operators

49:03 Scaling vs. Lifestyle Businesses

57:25 Final Advice for Agency Owners

Cameron Herold is the mastermind behind the exponential growth of hundreds of companies globally. Founder of the COO Alliance, and Invest In Your Leaders training.  Cameron is known as the "CEO Whisperer", and is also the former COO of 1-800-GOT-JUNK?, where he engineered the company's spectacular growth from $2 million to $106 million in revenue in just six years.

The publisher of Forbes magazine, Rich Karlgaard, stated "Cameron Herold is the best speaker I've ever heard...he hits grand slams”.   Cameron is

the host of the Second In Command podcast, author of 6 bestselling books, including The Second In Command, Vivid Vision, Meetings Suck, Free PR, Double Double, and The Miracle Morning for Entrepreneurs.

Cameron is a top-rated international speaker and has been paid to speak in 26 countries and on all 7 continents, including Antarctica in early 2022.

www.cooalliance.com

www.cameronherold.com

https://www.instagram.com/cameron_herold_cooalliance

https://www.facebook.com/COOAlliance/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/cameronherold

https://www.linkedin.com/company/coo-alliance/

https://twitter.com/cooalliance

https://www.youtube.com/@CameronHerold?sub_confirmation=1

https://cooalliance.com/vivid-vision/

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In episode 142, I sit down with Amy Maxwell, founder and creative director of Maxwell Design, to talk about the real tension small creative shops face: how do you grow without sacrificing the craft that made you successful in the first place?

We dig into what it looks like to evolve from “hands-on designer” to “agency leader,” how to protect quality as you add capacity, and how to make smart choices about clients, process, and scope so growth doesn’t turn into chaos. If you want to scale with intention (and still love the work), this one’s for you.

Key Bytes

• Scaling doesn’t have to mean sacrificing creative quality

• Your process is what protects the craft as you grow

• “Better clients” often solves what “more clients” can’t

• You can stay hands-on without being the bottleneck

• The right constraints create consistency, not limitation

• Hiring should reduce friction, not add management drag

• Clear scope and boundaries prevent quiet burnout

Chapters

00:00 Intro: scaling without losing the craft

02:10 Amy’s origin story and building Maxwell Design

06:20 The “stay small” choice and what it protects

11:05 When growth starts to strain quality (warning signs)

16:10 Processes that keep creative standards high

22:30 Team structure: support roles vs creative roles

28:40 Client fit, boundaries, and saying “no” earlier

34:15 Staying fulfilled while the business grows

40:20 Rapid-fire questions and wrap-up

Amy—Creative Director + Founder of Maxwell Design—has spent the last two decades helping businesses look their best. She’s an award-winning designer with a knack for reading minds and creating delightful visual experiences. Her solution-focused approach makes her someone you’ll want in any room. And her small (but mighty) team comes with some major design chops.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwelldesignco/

http://maxwelldesignco.com/

Ep 136 – JP Holecka, Power Shifter Digital – Building the AI-Driven Agency: Lessons from Power Shifter’s Evolution

In episode 136, I sit down with JP Holecka, founder and CEO of Power Shifter Digital, a Vancouver-based agency leading the shift toward AI-driven digital products and content creation. With over 30 years of experience in design, film, and technology, JP has guided multiple teams through successful AI rollouts—transforming workflows, scaling creativity, and redefining how digital agencies deliver value.

We talk about what it really takes to evolve your agency for the AI era, how to navigate the culture shift that comes with automation, and why embracing AI is less about replacing people and more about amplifying what they’re capable of.

KEY BYTES

• AI isn’t replacing creativity—it’s amplifying it

• True transformation starts with changing workflows, not job titles

• The most successful AI rollouts start with internal adoption before client delivery

• Leadership has to model curiosity and experimentation

• Agencies that treat AI as a tool, not a threat, are finding their competitive edge

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction

02:01 JP’s background and the evolution of Power Shifter

06:32 The first AI experiments that changed everything

10:45 Getting team buy-in and overcoming initial skepticism

14:58 Building processes around AI rather than forcing it in

20:10 Human creativity in the age of automation

25:36 How AI has changed client expectations

31:12 Leadership lessons from scaling an AI-driven agency

36:45 The next frontier of digital work

40:30 JP’s advice for agency founders starting their AI journey

43:00 Rapid Fire Questions

JP Holecka is the founder and CEO of Power Shifter Digital, a Vancouver-based agency leading the shift toward AI-driven digital products and content creation. With over 30 years of experience in design, film, and technology, JP has guided multiple agencies through successful AI rollouts—transforming workflows, scaling creativity, and redefining how teams collaborate with generative tools.

https://www.powershifter.com/studio

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jpholecka/

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In episode 135, I sit down with Drew McLellan, CEO of Agency Management Institute and host of the Build a Better Agency podcast. Drew’s been in the business for over 30 years and has coached thousands of agencies on how to grow profitably, attract better clients, and actually enjoy the perks of ownership.

In this conversation, we unpack what the real job of an agency owner is — and how easy it is to get lost in the weeds doing everyone else’s. Drew shares how founders can move from day-to-day chaos to the higher-level work of vision, leadership, and building a pipeline that doesn’t depend on them. We also talk about the mental shift from “founder hustle” to “CEO clarity,” and what it really means to build an agency that serves your life, not the other way around.

Key Bytes

• The three things only the owner can and should do

• Why your agency’s profit tells the truth about your leadership

• Building a self-sustaining pipeline that runs without you

• How to structure your week around the owner’s actual job

• The difference between running an agency and owning a business

• What makes an agency truly “sellable”

• Common traps that keep founders stuck in the weeds

• How to get your time back without losing control

Chapters

00:00 Welcome and Drew’s background

04:12 The evolution from founder to true agency owner

09:45 What the “owner’s actual job” really is

14:58 Why agency profit is a mirror of leadership

20:17 Building systems and pipelines that aren’t you

26:04 The importance of clarity and delegation

31:42 Common mistakes that limit scalability

38:27 How to build an agency that can thrive without you

44:10 Preparing for eventual sale or succession

49:22 Drew’s advice for new and seasoned agency owners

Drew McLellan has worked in advertising for 30+ years and started his own agency, McLellan Marketing Group in 1995 after a five-year stint at Y&R and still actively runs the agency.

He spends the lion’s share of his time running Agency Management Institute (AMI), which he also co-owns/runs with his wife Danyel.

AMI serves thousands of agencies small to mid-sized agencies (advertising, digital, marketing, media and PR) every year, so they can increase their AGI, attract better clients and employees, mitigate the risks of being self-employed in a such volatile business and best of all — let the agency owner actually enjoy the perks of agency ownership.

AMI is the only agency network that is run by an active agency owner. It offers:

Public workshops for agency owners, leaders and account service staff

Owner peer networks (like a Vistage group or 4A’s forums)

Private coaching/consulting for agency owners

Annual primary research with CMOs and client decision makers about their work with agencies

The highly praised podcast Build A Better Agency

The only conference built for small to mid-sized agencies – the Build A Better Agency Summit

Drew often appears in publications like Entrepreneur Magazine, New York Times, Washington Post, Forbes, AdAge, CNN, BusinessWeek, and many others. The Wall Street Journal calls him “one of 10 bloggers every entrepreneur should read.”

He’s also written several books, the most recent being Sell with Authority (January 2020). The latest book has garnered rave reviews and has been the guidebook for agency growth and business development in today’s world.

Drew also speaks at leading agency and marketing conferences like Inbound, Content Marketing World and MAICON and is often cited in agency centric content for his expertise in the industry.

When he’s not hanging out with clients or agency owners and their staff, Drew spends time with his wife, their blended family and following his beloved Dodgers.

http://agencymanagementinstitute.com

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In episode 134, I sit down with Jen Moss, Chief Creative Officer and co-founder of JAR, where she helps brands and agencies craft podcasts that move people—not just metrics.

Jen calls herself a podcasting doula, guiding clients through the messy middle of creative storytelling. In this conversation, we dive into how to create audio that actually connects, what makes a podcast worth listening to, and why “Job, Audience, Result” is the framework every agency should adopt before hitting record.

Jen and I explore why most branded podcasts fizzle, how to define success beyond downloads, and the difference between authenticity and algorithm-chasing. If you’ve ever thought about starting a podcast for your agency—or making your current one work harder—this episode’s for you.

Key Bytes

• The JAR method: Job, Audience, Result—a simple framework for podcast strategy.

• Why authenticity and storytelling beat reach every time.

• How agencies can use podcasts as pillar content that drives real relationships.

• Common landmines when launching an agency podcast.

• Why generosity and curiosity build audience trust.

• The most meaningful metrics: engagement, consumption rate, and return listeners.

• When to use internal vs. external hosts—and why it depends.

• The role of creative courage in a crowded podcast space.

• Why “connection” should always be your North Star.

Chapters

00:00 Intro – Meet Jen Moss, podcasting doula and CCO of JAR

02:00 From theater to radio: Jen’s storytelling roots

06:00 The JAR framework explained: Job, Audience, Result

09:30 The real “why” behind launching a podcast

12:30 How agencies can use podcasts as strategic marketing tools

16:30 Internal vs. external hosts: what actually works

19:45 Common landmines and why most podcasts fizzle

22:00 Authenticity, generosity, and giving value away

24:30 Is podcasting too saturated? Finding signal in the noise

27:45 Connection over clicks—how to stand out

31:00 The metrics that matter: consumption, return, and reach trends

33:50 Rapid Fire with Jen Moss: storytelling, creative courage, and dream guests

In her role as Chief Creative Officer of JAR, Co-Founder Jen Moss loves bringing stories to life. With her clients, Jen acts as a “podcasting Doula,” helping them harness their strengths in service of great storytelling. Deeply steeped in the creative process, Jen is unafraid of its ambiguities, and enjoys guiding others through its twists and turns. Drawing on her strong background in theatre, arts journalism, audio documentary, and new media storytelling, Jen helps clients tell the authentic stories that matter to them, and to their audience. She spent many years working as a producer and award-winning content creator for CBC Radio, and as an interactive story producer for The National Film Board of Canada’s Digital Studio, which taught her to think of stories as living things, full of potential for impact. It also taught her to take an “audience first” approach. Jen is never afraid of surfacing big ideas, but understands that sometimes, it’s the little things – the specific lens that “only you” can bring – that will gain the most traction with an audience. Jen loves to look for “fresh tracks” in the form of stories that haven’t been told before. She encourages her clients and her team at JAR to try out new ideas, learn from what the audience data reveals, and let that inform future creative strategy. Finally, Jen keeps her own professional learning curve alive as she lectures part-time at the University of British Columbia’s School of Creative Writing, interacting with the next generation of writers, podcasters, new media producers, and audiences.

https://jarpodcasts.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-moss-8a356930/

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In episode 133, I dive into the real-world path of AI adoption for agencies with guest Kirstin Russ, founder of Principal Edge AI and Mountains to Sea Media. We unpack the four “zones” of adoption (from denial to productized services), why most AI projects fail without structure and change management, and how to turn internal automations into billable client solutions. We also hit on junior-talent pipelines in an AI world, the risk of “robot-trained-by-robots” content, pricing when you’re still learning, and the discovery discipline required to make automations actually stick.

Key Bytes

• The winning agencies move from “dabbling in automations” to selling AI-powered solutions that solve specific client problems.

• 95% of AI projects fail because of missing structure, messy data, and zero change management — fix those first.

• AI should elevate people to higher-value work; train juniors to work with AI, not to be replaced by it.

• Don’t chase every shiny tool; build repeatable agent patterns and a stable stack you trust.

• Discovery is everything: a “15-step” flow usually hides 30 more steps — price and scope accordingly.

• Monetization starts with ops pain: map ugly manual workflows, then automate the “swivel-chair” steps.

• Thought leadership beats generic AI copy: capture founder audio, codify brand voice + ICPs, then assist with AI.

• Profit vs. quality is a real tension — set guardrails so efficiency never erodes outcomes.

Chapters

00:00 Intro & Kirstin’s two businesses

00:57 Why an outsource-first agency model

03:07 Year of deep AI study and first tools “in the wild”

04:43 The four zones of agency AI adoption

06:14 From “getting ahead” to “survive”: disruption hits marketing

09:01 Why AI projects fail: structure, data, and change management

11:00 Practical internal automations (transcripts → CRM, follow-ups, etc.)

12:58 Junior talent in an AI era & the content quality dilemma

15:18 Building an AI content assist system (voice, ICP, research)

18:48 Tool sprawl vs. foundations; avoiding shiny-object traps

20:40 Can clients DIY? Positioning & selling AI services

21:08 Case studies: Square inventory workflow & quote tool

24:38 Pricing while you’re learning; managing expectations

27:18 Aha moments: you can’t do it all; systemize & delegate

29:14 Theme songs, imposter syndrome, and wrap up

Kirstin Russ is a seasoned business strategist with 30 years of cross-industry experience who brings a unique dual approach to business growth. As the founder of Practical Edge AI, she helps businesses leverage artificial intelligence to automate growth, reduce manual workload, and improve profitability—often delivering measurable results within the first week.

Simultaneously, as the driving force behind Mountains to Sea Media, a Western North Carolina-based digital marketing agency, Kirstin helps businesses amplify their online presence through strategic internet marketing, data analytics, and performance-focused web design.

Kirstin's superpower lies in her holistic approach to business analysis, understanding how systems interconnect and where AI can enhance traditional & digital marketing strategies. By combining cutting-edge AI solutions with proven digital marketing expertise, she creates integrated growth pathways that optimize both operations and customer acquisition.

With an approachable style and commitment to practical results, Kirstin transforms business challenges into opportunities. Her guiding question remains: "If you could wave a magic wand and change anything about your business, what would it be?"

https://www.practicaledge.ai/

https://mountainstoseamedia.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/practical-edge-ai/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/mountains-to-sea-media/

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In episode 130, I sit down with Peter Lang—co-founder of Digital Agency Business and AVA, and longtime agency acquirer—to unpack how agency owners can use M&A as a growth superpower. Peter shares the seven-day deal that doubled his agency’s revenue, the due-diligence signals that actually matter (talent, client stickiness, and contracts), why most M&A fails on culture not math, and how AI is reshaping hiring and service models. We also get into founder identity after the sale, what “professional maturity” looks like, and why many owners are really capital allocators in the making.

Key Bytes

• M&A can compress years of organic growth into months—if you underwrite people, clients, and terms before the numbers.

• Culture fit and integration planning beat fancy spreadsheets; most failed deals are value misalignment, not valuation.

• AI is wiping out entry-level tasks first; the winners redeploy A-players and teach clients how to use AI, not hide from it.

• Founder-led sales can’t be the only engine; build repeatable sales capacity that survives distractions.

• You already “work for” whoever pays you—selling changes the customer, not your agency DNA.

• Treat time like capital: budget it, forecast it, and review it like an effective executive.

Chapters

00:00 Cold open, quick re-intro

01:08 The seven-day deal that doubled revenue

03:32 Doing three deals in 90 days during COVID

06:36 Common seller misconceptions and Peter’s deal lens

09:19 Endurance mindset, calendars, and operating like an athlete

13:46 What buyers actually look for beyond the numbers

17:43 AI’s impact on talent, delivery, and survival to 2027

22:10 Life after the sale and “professional maturity”

24:51 Rapid fire: celebrating wins, the race that changed him, dream acquisition

27:45 Where to learn more (digitalagencybusiness.com)

Resources mentioned

• Effective Executive by Peter Drucker (time tracking and retrospective)

• GrowthHackers community (context on Peter’s portfolio)

• digitalagencybusiness.com (Peter’s M&A training and upcoming book)

Peter Lang is an entrepreneur, investor, and philanthropist with over 15 years of experience building, buying, and selling companies across online publishing, media, advertising, e-commerce, and consulting. He’s the co-founder and Chief M&A Officer at AVA, a fast-growing digital agency holding company acquiring businesses in the $1–10 million range.

Peter also runs Digital Agency Business (DAB), an e-learning company that trains entrepreneurs to launch and scale their own agencies. A former CEO of Uhuru Network and advisor to multiple companies, Peter’s passion lies in using mergers and acquisitions to accelerate growth. An endurance athlete and family man, he lives by the belief that anything is achievable with hard work.

Contact Peter:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterclang/

https://digitalagencybusiness.com/

In episode 128, I sit down with Logan Lyles, founder of DemandShift and longtime B2B sales and marketing pro. Logan’s career has spanned brand side, agency side, and now his own consultancy—giving him a unique perspective on what it really takes to grow pipeline.

We unpack his journey from scaling Sweet Fish Media to Inc. 5000 status, building the Agency Life series at Teamwork, and leading growth at Business Builders. Most importantly, Logan shares how he turned disappointing webinar results into a repeatable framework that consistently converts registrations into booked sales calls.

If you’ve ever run a webinar that felt like a win… until the dreaded “conversion cliff,” this episode gives you the practical, step-by-step fixes to turn those views into revenue.

Key Bytes

• Logan explains how most agencies fall into the “conversion cliff” trap—lots of registrants, little pipeline—and the two-part fix that changed everything.

• He shares the importance of packaging your expertise into a clear framework that creates a natural next step.

• We break down his two-step registration process that boosted webinar conversions by 5–10x.

• We compare free vs. paid events, what impacts show-up rates, and which strategy works best for agencies.

• We talk about how webinars double as content engines for thought leadership and trust building.

• Logan shares why solopreneurs and 20-person agencies alike can adapt this strategy with the right tech stack.

• He opens up about lessons learned in sales—why not every “yes” is worth chasing.

Chapters

00:02 Intro to Logan Lyles and Demand Shift

01:14 Logan’s meandering career path from journalism to sales to agency life

03:09 Lessons from scaling Sweet Fish Media and leading growth at Business Builders

06:44 Why referrals aren’t enough for agencies anymore

07:28 The “conversion cliff” of webinars and how Logan fixed it

09:48 The two-step registration process that boosted conversions 5–10x

12:59 Free vs. paid webinars: show rates, signups, and strategy

15:57 Webinars as thought-leadership engines and content machines

19:11 Blending demand gen with brand building for faster sales cycles

23:02 Rethinking webinars: live podcasts, polls, and engagement tactics

27:08 Sales lessons: why not every yes is worth chasing

27:50 Wrap-up and where to find Logan (demandshift.co)

Logan Lyles has spent 17 years in B2B sales & marketing, drawing on his journalism background & working both agency- and brand-side in various roles. He has helped multiple agencies scale, including helping lead Sweet Fish Media onto the Inc 5,000 List 2 years in a row & increasing Business Builders monthly email list growth by 580% in 2024.

Logan is the founder of DemandShift, a webinar-as-a-service agency, the co-host of the weekly podcast: The Marketing Max Show & a LinkedIn Top Voice.

http://demandshift.co

http://linkedin.com/in/loganlyles

In episode 127, I talk with Kelly Schuknecht, founder of Two Mile High Marketing and host of the Beyond the Best Seller podcast. Kelly shares her journey from being laid off to launching her agency, how she quickly built a team, and why she’s focused on helping agency owners and CEOs grow through thought leadership platforms. We dig into what I call The Agency Owner’s Visibility Plan—a repeatable system of podcasts, stages, and LinkedIn that helps agencies build authority, stay top-of-mind, and consistently attract clients.

Key Bytes

• The Agency Owner’s Visibility Plan comes down to visibility, credibility, and consistency.

• Trusting yourself to leap without a safety net accelerates growth.

• Niching disqualifies the wrong buyers while pulling in the right ones.

• Visibility means showing up where your audience already is.

• Credibility is built in a snap judgment—package your proof.

• Consistency matters more than volume—set a realistic cadence.

• Every podcast interview can fuel a month’s worth of content.

• Delegating early unlocks owner time for actual growth work.

• In-person events still beat virtual for relationship building.

Chapters

00:00 Introducing Kelly and the story behind “Two Mile High”

03:30 From acquisition layoff to launching an agency

06:45 Why she pivoted away from “fractional CMO”

09:55 The challenge and power of niching down

13:50 Hiring early and delegating with trust

16:20 The Visibility–Credibility–Consistency framework

19:55 A realistic cadence for LinkedIn, podcasts, and speaking

24:10 In-person vs. virtual events and AI’s limitations

26:45 Rapid Fire: superpowers, lessons learned, and marketing myths

Kelly Schuknecht is the founder of Two Mile High Marketing, where she partners with agency owners and business leaders to build powerful thought leadership platforms. With over 15 years of marketing experience and a track record of elevating brands from behind the scenes, Kelly now helps experts step into the spotlight through strategic content, visibility tactics, and authentic personal branding. She’s the host of Beyond the Bestseller, a podcast featuring women who use their stories to lead.

www.twomilehighmarketing.com

www.kellyschuknecht.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellyschuknecht/

In episode 126, I sit down with Meeky Hwang, CEO and partner at Endeavor, a WordPress development agency powering digital platforms for major media and enterprise brands like Bloomberg, Forbes, and Sony. With over two decades of experience in development and DevOps, Meeky has built Endeavor into a trusted name in the WordPress ecosystem while also paving the way as a female leader in tech.

We talk about her accidental journey into agency ownership, what it’s like leading in an industry where women are still underrepresented, and how Endeavor built its three-pillar framework for resilient platforms. Meeky shares candid insights on navigating partnerships, the challenges of “over-engineering” with headless CMS, and the importance of masterminds and community for entrepreneurs.

Key Bytes

• Meeky shares how an “accidental” freelance project led to a decade-long partnership and agency.

• She discusses the importance of having clear role delineation with her co-founder to avoid missteps.

• Endeavor’s three-pillar framework (audience experience, editorial experience, developer experience) keeps their platforms resilient.

• She explains why many publishers are moving away from over-engineered headless CMS solutions back to WordPress.

• As a female leader in tech, she reflects on mentorship, representation, and inspiring others by simply “being the first.”

• She stresses the value of mastermind groups for growth and support, something she wishes she’d pursued earlier.

• Endeavor is exploring AI to streamline workflows and even testing new content tools for clients.

• Her advice for organizations: implement proper version control and CI/CD to avoid preventable tech mistakes.

Chapters

00:00 Welcome and introduction to Meeky Hwang

03:00 Becoming an “accidental” agency founder

07:00 Women in tech and leadership representation

11:00 Why Endeavor niched into WordPress and media

12:30 The three-pillar framework for resilient platforms

15:00 Headless CMS pitfalls and returning to WordPress

18:00 Navigating co-founder roles and partnerships

23:00 AI, internal tools, and what’s next for Endeavor

25:00 The power of masterminds for entrepreneurs

27:00 Rapid fire: karaoke, hobbies, and tech stack fixes

Meeky Hwang is the CEO & Partner at Ndevr, a WordPress development agency trusted by leading digital media and enterprise companies. With 20+ years of experience in web development, open-source technology, and DevOps, she specializes in optimizing complex digital ecosystems, streamlining editorial workflows, and aligning technology with business goals.

Meeky has helped major brands like PMC, Hearst, Bloomberg, Forbes, and Sony build scalable, high-performing digital platforms. A champion for women in tech, she is passionate about fostering opportunities for the next generation of leaders.

Contact Meeky on their website: ndevr.io

In episode 125, I sit down with Dolores Hirschmann, investor, strategist, and founder of Masters in Clarity. Dolores has built, scaled, and sold businesses—including one to Pete Vargas and Grant Cardone after growing it to eight figures. A former TEDx organizer, she now helps service professionals and thought leaders clarify their message, craft high-converting signature talks, and get booked on stages that drive real business results. We explore her journey from early internet marketing in Argentina to launching an outbound speaker agency, and she shares her framework for creating talks that convert, practical tips for pitching event organizers, and why thought leadership is still one of the most powerful growth levers for agencies.

Key Bytes

• Thought leadership isn’t about celebrity—it’s about clarity and consistency

• A great talk is less about what you say and more about what your audience walks away with

• Don’t pitch event organizers with long bios—open the door with a simple yes/no question

• The best call-to-action from stage isn’t a free consultation, it’s a free resource tied to your talk

• A signature talk framework can be applied to any presentation—keynote, workshop, or boardroom update

• Speaking is one of the most scalable ways to build trust, demonstrate expertise, and generate new business

Chapters

00:00 Welcome and introduction to Dolores Hirschmann

01:18 Early internet marketing and human-to-human relationships

04:58 Moving to the U.S. and pioneering online learning platforms

06:26 From serial entrepreneur to coach and strategist

08:19 Organizing TEDx and developing the signature talk framework

11:26 Building and scaling a speaker agency to $20M+

14:29 Why agencies need to lean into speaking and thought leadership

15:44 Practical steps to land more speaking opportunities

20:07 The seven steps of a high-converting talk

23:24 How to craft calls-to-action that drive leads from stage

25:23 Using QR codes and free resources to capture audience interest

26:25 Masters in Clarity workshops and software for speakers

27:02 Rapid fire: tap dancing, gut instincts, and buying businesses

Dolores Hirschmann is an investor, strategist, speaker, and founder of Masters in Clarity, a strategy and business coaching firm. She helps service professionals grow their businesses and establish thought leadership. A former TEDx organizer, she specializes in positioning experts, authors, consultants, and coaches for success.

Dolores recently sold a company to Pete Vargas and Grant Cardone, supporting its growth to multiple 8 figures in four years. She built a software platform to help speakers get placed on stages and advises businesses on preparing for profitable exits. Masters in Clarity provides fractional Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) services to help companies design and execute marketing initiatives and set up automated marketing systems. As an investor, Dolores acquires and scales small businesses, ensuring their legacy and long-term success.

www.mastersinclarity.com

In episode 124, I sit down with Joe Rojas, founder of Start Grow Manage and author of How Entrepreneurs Thrive. Joe has built and sold multiple MSPs, each time leveraging the power of deep niching to accelerate growth. We talk about the pivotal inflection points in a business’s lifecycle, why niching works across any industry, and how systems and values create businesses that can run—and grow—without the owner. Joe shares his framework for moving from “job” to “business,” the core values that drive his work, and how agencies can increase profitability by solving real business problems for clients. We also discuss the parallels between MSPs and agencies when it comes to client retention, lifetime value, and building a life you actually want to live.

Key Bytes

• Niching accelerates growth because it clarifies your offer and your audience

• The difference between a lifestyle job and a lifestyle business is scale and delegation

• Core values must be discovered, not invented—and hiring should be based on them

• Profitability can start with your existing clients, not just new ones

• Long-term success comes from solving clients’ business problems, not just delivering services

Chapters

00:00 Welcome and guest intro

01:06 Joe’s journey from the Army to building and selling MSPs

03:18 Understanding the “Start, Grow, Manage” stages

05:03 Why Joe wrote How Entrepreneurs Thrive

06:33 The $1M inflection point and profitability mindset

08:16 Helping clients reclaim their time and freedom

12:20 Building core values that drive the business

16:46 Hiring for abundance mindset and cultural fit

21:07 How Joe’s book applies to agencies today

24:07 Why technology changes but strategy doesn’t

26:08 Expanding accounts by solving deeper problems

28:37 Mapping the client journey for better results

30:21 Rapid fire questions and closing thoughts

Joe is the Founder at Start Grow Manage, based in New York, and author of How Entrepreneurs Thrive. He empowers Managed Service Providers and entrepreneurs to overcome the challenges of business formation to create profitable, growing businesses. As a serial entrepreneur himself, he has faced the challenge of making new and growing businesses work. His career started in the military, where he became an expert in information technology, eventually forming his own managed services company. Through that experience, he discovered the formula for businesses and learned that entrepreneurs are good at what they do but struggle to build a business.

https://startgrowmanage.com

In episode 123, I sit down with Jenny Plant, founder of Account Management Skills, to talk about why strong account management is the secret weapon for agency growth. Drawing on over 25 years of experience on both the agency and client side, Jenny shares how she helps account managers develop the skills, confidence, and mindset to grow accounts without feeling “salesy.” We discuss the challenges of hybrid AM/PM roles, how to spot rising account management stars, and why curiosity and relationship skills often outweigh industry knowledge. Jenny also dives into her “Four P’s” of AI for account managers—Productivity, Personalization, Prescribe, and Predict—showing how technology can boost proactivity and client value. We wrap with insights on setting growth targets, charging for account management, and building a culture that celebrates account wins as much as new business.

Key Bytes

• Account growth starts with training AMs to be proactive, not just reactive service providers

• Hybrid AM/PM roles often fail to drive growth because delivery takes priority over development

• Curiosity and relationship skills can be more valuable than industry expertise

• AI can help AMs be more productive, personalize interactions, prescribe solutions, and predict client needs

• Co-creating growth targets with AMs boosts buy-in and accuracy

• Celebrating account growth fosters a culture where client retention and expansion matter as much as net new business

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Jenny Plant & Account Management Skills

02:20 Why sales training is vital for account managers

04:16 The challenge of hybrid AM/PM roles in driving growth

08:58 Traits of successful account managers

11:32 Hiring AMs from outside the agency world

13:14 Jenny’s Four P’s of AI for account managers

18:19 Proactivity and presenting ideas to clients

20:38 Co-creating account growth targets

22:55 Charging for account management services

24:36 How many accounts can one AM manage effectively?

28:15 Creating a culture that celebrates account growth

Jenny Plant is the founder of Account Management Skills a training company helping agency account managers retain client relationships and grow accounts.

Jenny has over 25 years in agency account management and has also worked client-side in marketing for an international airline and pharmaceutical company.

Her account management training programmes blend proven client growth methodologies with the integration of AI tools, helping agencies stay relevant, efficient, and proactive.

She also hosts the Creative Agency Account Manager Podcast, where she shares insights and interviews to elevate the agency-client relationship management standards across the industry.

https://accountmanagementskills.com/

In episode 116, I sit down with Clara Stedman and Ben Engvall, founding partners of Palmer Advisors, a boutique M&A firm focused on marketing, media, and tech agencies in the lower to middle market. Clara and Ben break down what agency owners need to understand about selling their business, navigating deal structures, and preparing for acquisition—even if an exit isn’t on the immediate horizon.

We talk about why Palmer was founded, the major shifts in deal terms over the last few years, and why so many agency founders are choosing to stay on post-acquisition. They also share candid insights into common red flags that signal an agency isn’t ready to sell—and what to do about it. We dive into how niching (especially by industry) impacts valuation, what kinds of agencies are in high demand, and how AI and proprietary tools may influence future multiples.

Whether you’re dreaming of an exit, fielding buyer interest, or just want to understand how your agency is valued, this episode pulls back the curtain on the M&A process and what today’s buyers really want.

Key Bytes

• Palmer Advisors focuses on M&A for service-based businesses.

• The agency market is evolving with new deal structures.

• Cultural fit is crucial in agency acquisitions.

• Founders should not exit at their peak performance.

• Timing is key when going to market for an exit.

• Having a strong leadership team is essential for agency sales.

• Niche agencies are more attractive to buyers.

• Understanding EBITDA is vital for agency owners.

• Deal structures can be creative and flexible.

• The future of M&A looks promising with technology advancements.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites

01:47 The Formation of Palmer Advisors

03:35 Reflections on the First Year

05:32 Understanding Agency M&A Dynamics

09:23 Identifying Readiness for Exit

13:28 The Importance of Owner Involvement

16:02 The Value of Niching in M&A

19:09 Demystifying M&A Terminology

23:19 Future Trends in M&A

25:11 The Role of IP and Technology in Valuation

28:34 Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts

Clara Stedman and Ben Engvall are the founding partners of Palmer Advisors, a boutique M&A advisory firm built specifically for founders of service-based businesses. With a focus on marketing, media, and tech agencies in the lower to middle market (typically $1–10M in EBITDA), Clara and Ben bring a modern, founder-first approach to buying, selling, and valuing businesses. They’ve quickly built a reputation for their strategic deal-making, brutally honest readiness assessments, and commitment to crafting win-win outcomes that align both financial and cultural goals. Clara leads as CEO, bringing a background in corporate retail and fitness, while Ben heads up M&A with a traditional finance foundation. Together, they’re reshaping what agency exits can—and should—look like.

Contact Palmer Advisors: 

http://palmeradvisors.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/clara-stedman-palmer-advisors/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-engvall-palmer-advisors/

In episode 115, I sit down with Jason Hennessey, internationally recognized SEO expert and CEO of Hennessey Digital. Jason shares the story of how a single talk at a legal mastermind sparked his first agency, and how he’s since scaled a powerhouse SEO firm serving top-tier law firms. We talk about niching down, the power of building a personal brand, and why delegation was key to scaling without burning out. Jason opens up about leadership, team culture, and how stepping back actually helped his agency grow faster. Plus, we dive into strategies like direct mail, personal outreach, and even outsourcing genius to level up results.

Key Bytes

• Jason Hennessy has been in SEO since 2001 and started his first agency in 2008.

• He transitioned from his first agency to Hennessy Digital in 2015, focusing on law firms.

• Innovative marketing strategies, like sending personalized books, helped him secure clients.

• Hennessy Digital primarily serves personal injury lawyers but sees potential in other legal niches.

• Building a personal brand has significantly increased response rates to his outreach.

• Delegation and outsourcing are key to scaling an agency effectively.

• Jason emphasizes the importance of investing in leadership and team development.

• He still engages with SEO on a personal level, leveraging external expertise.

• Agency culture is a priority, fostering support and recognition among team members.

• Asking for help and seeking coaching is crucial for agency owners.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites and Guest Background

01:04 Jason Hennessy's Journey in SEO and Agency Growth

03:55 Transitioning from First Agency to Hennessy Digital

07:00 Innovative Marketing Strategies for Law Firms

10:06 Market Potential and Niche Focus in Legal SEO

11:58 Building a Personal Brand and Leadership Structure

16:01 Scaling the Agency and Delegating Responsibilities

20:03 Passion for SEO and Outsourcing Expertise

23:05 Expanding Services Beyond SEO

24:54 Agency Culture and Team Dynamics

27:04 Personal Insights and Advice for Agency Owners

Jason Hennessey is an entrepreneur, internationally recognized SEO expert, author, speaker, podcast host, and business coach. Since 2001, Jason has been reverse-engineering the Google algorithm as a self-taught student and practitioner of SEO and search marketing.

Jason's expertise has fueled the growth and successful sale of multiple businesses, starting with a pioneering dot-com venture in the wedding industry. Serving as the CEO of Hennessey Digital since 2015, Jason's leadership has transformed a modest consultancy into a thriving eight-figure agency, earning a place on the prestigious Inc. 5000 list for five consecutive years. He is also the author of two Amazon bestsellers titled Law Firm SEO and Honest SEO.

As a sought-after keynote speaker and a frequent guest on podcasts and webinars, Jason shares his wealth of knowledge. He contributes as a columnist to respected publications such as the Washington Post and is a regular contributor to Entrepreneur, Forbes, Inc., Newsweek, and Rolling Stone Magazine. Jason's accomplishments extend to being honored with the Gold TITAN Business Award in the Entrepreneurship, Branding, Advertising, & Marketing category, as well as being recognized as a National Law Review Go-To Thought Leader.

Jason's journey has been enriched by his experience as a United States Air Force veteran and his attainment of a Bachelor of Arts degree in Marketing from the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Commencing his SEO career in Las Vegas and later establishing a strong presence in the legal industry in Atlanta, Jason now resides in the Los Angeles area with his wife, Bridget, and their three children.

jasonhennessey.com

hennessey.com

https://www.instagram.com/jasonhennessey/?hl=en

Ep 113 – Dr. Jeremy Weisz, Rise25 – The Gift of Podcasting

In episode 113, I sit down with Dr. Jeremy Weisz, co-founder of Rise 25 and host of the Inspired Insider podcast. Jeremy and I talk about how podcasting—when used the right way—can become one of the most effective tools for building real relationships, not just content. He breaks down the Dream 200 strategy for identifying ideal clients, why giving value always beats chasing sales, and how his agency uses both podcasting and strategic gifting to keep top-of-mind with partners and clients. We also dive into how he accidentally became an agency owner, the underrated power of thoughtful gifts, and his take on creating a high-impact referral ecosystem. And yes, we end with some rapid-fire questions—including the surprising mascot he’d pick for his agency.

Key Bytes

• Podcasting is a powerful tool for networking and professional development.

• Building relationships through podcasting can lead to business opportunities.

• The Dream 200 strategy helps identify and target ideal clients.

• Giving away valuable information attracts the right clients.

• Gifting strategies can enhance client engagement and retention.

• Podcasting can serve multiple purposes: authority building, SEO, and content creation.

• Networking through podcasts can create referral partnerships.

• Understanding your niche is crucial for effective marketing.

• Regular touchpoints with clients through gifts can strengthen relationships.

• Consider the source of business advice before acting on it.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Podcasting and Rise 25

02:52 The Evolution of Podcasting and Its Benefits

05:47 Building Relationships Through Podcasting

09:10 The Dream 200 Strategy for Targeting Clients

11:53 Gifting Strategies for Client Engagement

14:54 Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts

Dr. Jeremy Weisz has been featuring top entrepreneurs with video interviews since 2008 that include founders/CEOs of Pixar, P90X, Atari, Einstein Bagels, Mattel, Kettle Chips, RX Bars, Big League Chew, the Orlando Magic, and many more on www.InspiredInsider.com

He runs Rise25 which helps B2B businesses connect to their ‘Dream 200’ clients, and referral partners and get ROI, using a podcast. They eliminate 99% of the work and make sure you get ROI. Rise25 is an easy button for you to launch and run your podcast.

Podcasting has been one of the best things I've done both personally and professionally. It's been an amazing tool for connecting with referral partners, strategic partners, clients, and more.

Podcasting is like a "Swiss Army knife" because it is business development, referral marketing, strategic partnerships, lead generation, SEO, content creation, and personal and professional development, all in one.

Contact Dr. Weisz:

https://rise25.com/

https://www.inspiredinsider.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/drweisz/