In episode 134, I sit down with Jen Moss, Chief Creative Officer and co-founder of JAR, where she helps brands and agencies craft podcasts that move people—not just metrics.

Jen calls herself a podcasting doula, guiding clients through the messy middle of creative storytelling. In this conversation, we dive into how to create audio that actually connects, what makes a podcast worth listening to, and why “Job, Audience, Result” is the framework every agency should adopt before hitting record.

Jen and I explore why most branded podcasts fizzle, how to define success beyond downloads, and the difference between authenticity and algorithm-chasing. If you’ve ever thought about starting a podcast for your agency—or making your current one work harder—this episode’s for you.

Key Bytes

• The JAR method: Job, Audience, Result—a simple framework for podcast strategy.

• Why authenticity and storytelling beat reach every time.

• How agencies can use podcasts as pillar content that drives real relationships.

• Common landmines when launching an agency podcast.

• Why generosity and curiosity build audience trust.

• The most meaningful metrics: engagement, consumption rate, and return listeners.

• When to use internal vs. external hosts—and why it depends.

• The role of creative courage in a crowded podcast space.

• Why “connection” should always be your North Star.

Chapters

00:00 Intro – Meet Jen Moss, podcasting doula and CCO of JAR

02:00 From theater to radio: Jen’s storytelling roots

06:00 The JAR framework explained: Job, Audience, Result

09:30 The real “why” behind launching a podcast

12:30 How agencies can use podcasts as strategic marketing tools

16:30 Internal vs. external hosts: what actually works

19:45 Common landmines and why most podcasts fizzle

22:00 Authenticity, generosity, and giving value away

24:30 Is podcasting too saturated? Finding signal in the noise

27:45 Connection over clicks—how to stand out

31:00 The metrics that matter: consumption, return, and reach trends

33:50 Rapid Fire with Jen Moss: storytelling, creative courage, and dream guests

In her role as Chief Creative Officer of JAR, Co-Founder Jen Moss loves bringing stories to life. With her clients, Jen acts as a “podcasting Doula,” helping them harness their strengths in service of great storytelling. Deeply steeped in the creative process, Jen is unafraid of its ambiguities, and enjoys guiding others through its twists and turns. Drawing on her strong background in theatre, arts journalism, audio documentary, and new media storytelling, Jen helps clients tell the authentic stories that matter to them, and to their audience. She spent many years working as a producer and award-winning content creator for CBC Radio, and as an interactive story producer for The National Film Board of Canada’s Digital Studio, which taught her to think of stories as living things, full of potential for impact. It also taught her to take an “audience first” approach. Jen is never afraid of surfacing big ideas, but understands that sometimes, it’s the little things – the specific lens that “only you” can bring – that will gain the most traction with an audience. Jen loves to look for “fresh tracks” in the form of stories that haven’t been told before. She encourages her clients and her team at JAR to try out new ideas, learn from what the audience data reveals, and let that inform future creative strategy. Finally, Jen keeps her own professional learning curve alive as she lectures part-time at the University of British Columbia’s School of Creative Writing, interacting with the next generation of writers, podcasters, new media producers, and audiences.

https://jarpodcasts.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-moss-8a356930/

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In episode 133, I dive into the real-world path of AI adoption for agencies with guest Kirstin Russ, founder of Principal Edge AI and Mountains to Sea Media. We unpack the four “zones” of adoption (from denial to productized services), why most AI projects fail without structure and change management, and how to turn internal automations into billable client solutions. We also hit on junior-talent pipelines in an AI world, the risk of “robot-trained-by-robots” content, pricing when you’re still learning, and the discovery discipline required to make automations actually stick.

Key Bytes

• The winning agencies move from “dabbling in automations” to selling AI-powered solutions that solve specific client problems.

• 95% of AI projects fail because of missing structure, messy data, and zero change management — fix those first.

• AI should elevate people to higher-value work; train juniors to work with AI, not to be replaced by it.

• Don’t chase every shiny tool; build repeatable agent patterns and a stable stack you trust.

• Discovery is everything: a “15-step” flow usually hides 30 more steps — price and scope accordingly.

• Monetization starts with ops pain: map ugly manual workflows, then automate the “swivel-chair” steps.

• Thought leadership beats generic AI copy: capture founder audio, codify brand voice + ICPs, then assist with AI.

• Profit vs. quality is a real tension — set guardrails so efficiency never erodes outcomes.

Chapters

00:00 Intro & Kirstin’s two businesses

00:57 Why an outsource-first agency model

03:07 Year of deep AI study and first tools “in the wild”

04:43 The four zones of agency AI adoption

06:14 From “getting ahead” to “survive”: disruption hits marketing

09:01 Why AI projects fail: structure, data, and change management

11:00 Practical internal automations (transcripts → CRM, follow-ups, etc.)

12:58 Junior talent in an AI era & the content quality dilemma

15:18 Building an AI content assist system (voice, ICP, research)

18:48 Tool sprawl vs. foundations; avoiding shiny-object traps

20:40 Can clients DIY? Positioning & selling AI services

21:08 Case studies: Square inventory workflow & quote tool

24:38 Pricing while you’re learning; managing expectations

27:18 Aha moments: you can’t do it all; systemize & delegate

29:14 Theme songs, imposter syndrome, and wrap up

Kirstin Russ is a seasoned business strategist with 30 years of cross-industry experience who brings a unique dual approach to business growth. As the founder of Practical Edge AI, she helps businesses leverage artificial intelligence to automate growth, reduce manual workload, and improve profitability—often delivering measurable results within the first week.

Simultaneously, as the driving force behind Mountains to Sea Media, a Western North Carolina-based digital marketing agency, Kirstin helps businesses amplify their online presence through strategic internet marketing, data analytics, and performance-focused web design.

Kirstin's superpower lies in her holistic approach to business analysis, understanding how systems interconnect and where AI can enhance traditional & digital marketing strategies. By combining cutting-edge AI solutions with proven digital marketing expertise, she creates integrated growth pathways that optimize both operations and customer acquisition.

With an approachable style and commitment to practical results, Kirstin transforms business challenges into opportunities. Her guiding question remains: "If you could wave a magic wand and change anything about your business, what would it be?"

https://www.practicaledge.ai/

https://mountainstoseamedia.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/practical-edge-ai/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/mountains-to-sea-media/

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Ep 122 – Arielle Cohen, Business 411 – Building Scalable Systems for a Multi-Seven Figure Agency

In episode 122, I sit down with Ariel Cohn, founder of Marketing 411 and CMO of Business 401, to talk about how she scaled a multi–seven figure agency by going all-in on the roofing niche. Ariel shares why niching transformed their operations, how they built scalable systems and sister companies to serve the industry, and why embracing AI and virtual teams has been key to their growth. We also dive into the mindset shifts required to build an agency that supports your lifestyle — instead of running you into the ground.

Key Bytes

• Niching down creates clarity, repeatable systems, and faster scaling opportunities

• A sister company approach can build trust and open new revenue streams

• Retainer-based models help stabilize cash flow and increase profitability

• Virtual teams and offshore talent can boost efficiency without sacrificing quality

• Embracing AI is no longer optional — it’s essential for agency survival and growth

Chapters

00:01 Intro and Ariel’s background in roofing marketing

01:12 From generalist to roofing specialist: why niching was key

04:44 Myths about niching and lessons from going all-in

07:32 Defining the ideal client profile and setting minimums

09:00 Early challenges and focusing on revenue first

12:34 Building two complementary companies for growth

16:22 Leveraging virtual teams, overseas talent, and AI for scale

19:07 Retainer models vs. one-off projects for stable growth

20:29 Staying hungry and setting bigger goals

23:18 Embracing AI and adapting to industry change

25:10 Rapid fire: worst advice, daily habits, and explaining her job to a 5-year-old

Arielle Cohen is the Co-Founder of Marketing 411 and CMO of Business 411. With over a decade of experience in marketing, she has mastered the art of growing a Multi 7 Figure Agency through building a scalable and efficient operation. As the company grows, her focus has shifted to optimizing her time and building a dream company that supports her vision and lifestyle—without letting the business take over.

www.marketing411.com

www.business411.com

Social: @arielleCEO

Ep 121 – Shawn Johnston, Forge and Smith – Profitable by Design: Streamlining Dev Without Cutting Corners

In episode 121, I sit down with Shawn Johnston, founder of Forge and Smith and creator of Refoundry—a low-code WordPress platform that’s transforming how agencies build and deliver websites. We talk about how Shawn cut delivery time by 70%, turned profit margins around using the Profit First method, and transitioned his agency toward a scalable, productized model. He shares insights on navigating developer pushback, balancing client empowerment with agency control, and preparing for evolving tech shifts like AI in web development. Whether you’re struggling with project bottlenecks, shrinking budgets, or scaling challenges, Shawn’s story offers a clear path forward for building smarter, more profitable systems.

Key Bytes• Refoundry cut Forge and Smith’s development time by 70%, transforming profitability.

• Adopting Profit First changed their approach to pricing and overhead limits.

• Client empowerment through low-code builds loyalty and drives referrals.

• Transitioning leadership allowed Shawn’s team to grow into bigger roles.

• Technological shifts (like Webflow and AI) demand constant agency adaptation.

• Productizing an internal tool opened new revenue streams beyond services.

• Balancing developer pride with client needs is critical for successful adoption.

• Early lessons in print taught Shawn to anticipate and embrace industry change.

Chapters00:01 Introduction to Shawn Johnston and Forge and Smith

02:11 Moving from freelance to full agency and early challenges

04:39 Implementing Profit First and shifting to scalable systems

06:38 Why Refoundry: Bringing low-code to WordPress

08:22 Cutting development time and improving project profitability

11:23 Developer pushback and prioritizing client empowerment

14:44 Evolving Refoundry into a product for other agencies

17:03 Transitioning leadership and building team collaboration

24:17 Preparing for tech shifts like AI and staying nimble in delivery

28:30 Rapid fire questions and final reflections

​​

Shawn Johnston is the founder of Forge and Smith, a digital agency that’s launched over 500 websites in the past 13 years. After hitting the usual delivery bottlenecks and burnout cycles, he built Refoundry—a low-code platform for WordPress that helped his team cut build times by 70% and scale without sacrificing quality. Now he’s on a mission to help other agencies streamline delivery, boost margins, and build systems that actually work.

Contact Shawn:

https://refoundry.io

https://forgeandsmith.com

In episode 120, I sit down with Greg Bellinger, co-founder and CEO of White Rabbit, a web and mobile development agency with nearly 100 in-house employees spread across Colombia, India, and the U.S. Greg shares his journey from frontend developer to visionary CEO and breaks down how White Rabbit scaled by staying focused on one niche—supporting other agencies.

We explore why White Rabbit only hires full-time employees, how niching into agency delivery gave them a competitive edge, and the strategic thinking behind launching their own internal project financial software. Greg also talks about his passion for creation, not just in code but in culture, leadership, and future products. This one’s full of takeaways for agency owners looking to scale with purpose.

Key Bytes

• Greg shares why they only hire full-time employees and the cultural benefits that come with it

• He explains how niching into working with agencies helped them scale more efficiently

• Greg reflects on stepping away from product management and letting his leadership team shine

• He talks about the challenges of managing across three countries and how they keep their culture unified

• Greg reveals details about their custom-built project management and financial tool

• He offers insight into people management, tough conversations, and protecting your energy

• He shares his personal philosophy of “create,” from coding to building culture

• Greg discusses what entrepreneurship means to him and how it’s been part of his DNA from the start

Chapters

00:00 Welcome and guest intro

01:00 The origin of White Rabbit and its full-time hiring philosophy

02:30 Transitioning out of coding and project management

06:00 Working exclusively with agencies vs. going direct

07:15 Niching and its impact on growth and clarity

10:00 Scaling globally: why Colombia, India, and the U.S.

12:00 Uniting culture across three countries

14:00 Vision for the future: stepping back, launching products

16:30 Building internal software for project and financial management

19:00 Lessons in people management and entrepreneurship

25:00 Rapid fire: guilty pleasures, two-word advice, and dream hire

Greg Bellinger is the Co-Founder and CEO of White Rabbit Group, a web and mobile development agency with a fully in-house team of nearly 100 employees across three countries. His passion for technology began in childhood, leading him to hand-code his first websites in 2008. In 2016, he co-founded White Rabbit Group, building it into a trusted development partner for world-class agencies and creatives. Under his leadership, the company has earned a reputation for delivering high-quality digital solutions while fostering a close culture of technical experts.

Contact Greg:

https://whiterabbit.group/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-bellinger/

Ep 112 – Jay Owen, Business Builders – Slow Growth, Strong Culture

In episode 112 of Agency Bytes, I sit down with Jay Owen, founder of the multimillion-dollar agency Business Builders and the community Agency Builders. Jay started his web design business at just 17 and has spent the last 26 years growing it—intentionally and steadily—into a values-driven company focused on people over ego and sustainable growth over fast wins.

We dive into the long game of agency leadership, building a business that can thrive without you, and the fulfillment that comes from creating jobs that others love. Jay shares how his faith and values guide the way he leads, the role community has played in his journey, and why slow growth might just be the secret weapon nobody talks about. Whether you’re scaling your team, wrestling with niching, or thinking about legacy, this episode is full of wisdom for the road ahead.

Key Bytes

• Jay Owen started his entrepreneurial journey at a young age.

• Slow growth can lead to more sustainable success.

• Creating job opportunities for others is a key motivation.

• Community is essential for agency leaders.

• Collaboration over competition fosters growth.

• Integrating personal values into business is important.

• Niche down or maintain variety based on personal preference.

• Productization can enhance agency efficiency and profitability.

• Having a support system prevents burnout.

• Building a strong team is crucial for agency longevity.

Chapters

00:00 The Entrepreneurial Spirit Begins

02:37 Navigating the Hills and Valleys of Business

05:35 Building a Team and Creating Opportunities

08:54 The Importance of Community Over Competition

12:50 Creating a Supportive Environment

16:56 Integrating Personal Values into Business

20:56 Niche vs. Variety in Agency Growth

23:32 Productization and Agency Wisdom

Jay Owen started a web design company at 17 years old that has grown to a multi-million dollar agency and still growing 26 years later. He’s the author of Building a Business that Lasts and Host of a Podcast by the same name.  Jay founded Agency Builders, a community to help agency leaders grow and scale in a healthy way.

https://agencybuildersretreat.com/

https://aiwithjay.com/

In episode 104, I sit down with Adam Nathan, the CEO and co-founder of Blaze.ai, the AI-powered marketing tool that’s making big waves—especially for small teams. Adam and I get into his wild journey of scaling Blaze to over $10 million in revenue in just 15 months with a lean team of 25. We talk about how AI is no longer just for the big guys—it’s helping small businesses, solopreneurs, and yes, even agencies, punch way above their weight.

We also explore some of the trickier topics like AI’s ethical impact, the looming question of government oversight, and even the ecological footprint of AI technology. Adam shares some powerful stories from real users—including how one guy was finally able to take a vacation after 13 years because Blaze gave him time back. Whether you’re excited or anxious about AI, this conversation is packed with useful insights—and a refreshing take on where the future of marketing might be heading.

Key Bytes

• Adam Nathan's entrepreneurial background influenced the creation of Blaze.

• Blaze serves as a virtual marketer for small businesses.

• AI helps small businesses produce high-quality content efficiently.

• Many small businesses were previously doing little to no marketing.

• AI allows small businesses to compete with larger companies.

• The impact of AI on marketing is largely positive for small businesses.

• Agencies can scale their client base using AI tools like Blaze.

• Ethical considerations around AI usage are important for agencies.

• Government oversight should focus on outputs rather than inputs.

• The ecological impact of AI may decrease as technology advances.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Blaze and Adam Nathan's Journey

03:00 The Need for AI in Marketing

06:02 Blaze's Rapid Growth and Team Structure

08:54 AI's Impact on Small Businesses vs. Large Corporations

11:54 The Role of AI in Marketing and Content Creation

14:48 Ethics and Disclosure in AI Usage

17:57 The Future of Work and AI's Role

20:59 Government Oversight and Ecological Impact of AI

24:05 Final Thoughts and Rapid Fire Questions

Adam Nathan is the CEO and co-founder of Blaze, the #1 marketing AI tool for teams of one.

Get Blaze CEO Adam Nathan's cheat codes to building and growing a $150M company in your inbox every week with Startup Tycoon. Powered by Adam's experience shipping product to millions, raising $46M, and hyperscaling to $7M+ in revenue in 15 months with only 25 people.

Learn more here: https://www.blaze.ai/

Subscribe here: https://startuptycoon.com

In episode 103 of Agency Bytes, I sit down with Greg Hickman, founder of Alt Agency and an expert at helping agency owners break free from the time-for-money grind. Greg shares his fascinating journey from the world of big agencies to building his own seven-figure business—while working just 25 hours a week! We dive deep into the pitfalls of the traditional agency model and explore how the Alt Agency approach helps owners productize their services, streamline operations, and reclaim their time.

Greg and I also unpack the difference between productizing and commoditizing agency work (hint: you don’t have to sacrifice creativity for efficiency!). We talk about scaling smart, building systems that don’t drain your soul, and why redefining wealth goes beyond the numbers in your bank account. Plus, Greg shares some personal stories and life lessons about being present for the moments that really matter, in business and at home.

If you’re looking to run a more sustainable and rewarding agency, this is one you won’t want to miss.

Key Bytes

• Greg Hickman transitioned from traditional agency roles to founding AllAgency.

• The Alt Agency model focuses on monetizing expertise rather than just labor.

• Productization of services can lead to greater scalability and efficiency.

• Wealth is defined not just by money, but by time and health.

• Agencies can benefit from creating multiple service tiers to cater to different client needs.

• The lines between agencies, SaaS, and coaching are increasingly blurred.

• Building a scalable business requires a shift in mindset and operations.

• Automation and systems are key to reducing workload and increasing profits.

• Greg's journey highlights the importance of adapting to market needs.

• The impact of helping 800 agencies showcases the ripple effect of effective coaching. 

• Productized services focus on specific outcomes.

• Systematization helps agencies improve efficiency and profitability.

• Lead generation is crucial for agency success.

• Productization simplifies marketing and client management.

• Agencies often lose money due to inefficient pricing models.

• Creativity can thrive within a productized framework.

• Differentiation is key to avoiding commoditization.

• Personal growth involves learning from past experiences.

• Being present in personal life enhances overall happiness.

• Enjoying the journey is as important as the destination.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites and Guest Background

01:30 Greg's Journey in the Agency World

04:21 Transitioning to the Alt Agency Model

07:37 The Evolution of Services and Client Focus

10:40 Impact and Scale of the Alt Agency Model

12:59 Defining Wealth Beyond Money

13:31 Understanding the Alt Agency Model

19:54 Building a Scalable Offer Suite

21:31 Transforming Agency Services into Productized Offerings

24:33 The Importance of Systematization in Agencies

27:52 Lead Generation and Client Retention Challenges

30:19 Differentiating Productization from Commoditization

33:21 Personal Insights and Life Lessons

Greg Hickman helps agency owners and consultants escape the trap of trading time for money. After nearly two decades working with brands like Pepsi, AT&T, and the NY Jets, Greg built his own marketing automation agency and built funnels and systems for entrepreneurs like Dan Martell, Chris Ducker, John Lee Dumas, Jasmin Star, Nerd Fitness, and more. Now through AltAgency, he's helped over 800+ service providers build profitable, sustainable businesses by productizing their services and monetizing their expertise. Greg runs his 7-figure business working 3-4 days per week (most weeks), taking Fridays off for mountain biking, and wants to help others learn how to do the same. His unique approach helps owners ‘scale’ profits without scaling the complexity or sacrificing their lives.

Contact Greg: 

altagency.com

gregsvideos.com

In this episode, Wayne Pelletier, founder of Resonant Pixel Co, discusses the process of productizing agency services and the benefits it brings. He shares his journey from being a marketing assistant to launching his own agency and explains why he chose to focus on Squarespace as the platform for his services. Wayne emphasizes the importance of niching down and serving a specific audience, as well as the mindset shift required to transition from a project-based model to a subscription-based model. He also highlights the challenges and rewards of productization and the potential for scalability and growth.

Key Takeaways

• Productizing agency services involves niching down and focusing on a specific audience or platform.

• A subscription-based model can provide more predictable revenue and eliminate the feast and famine cycle of project-based work.

• Choosing the right platform, such as Squarespace, can offer stability, scalability, and the ability to hire predictably for talent.

• Productization requires a mindset shift from being a designer to being a business owner, focusing on access to expertise and lifetime value.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Pronunciation

08:10 Transitioning to a Subscription-Based Model

12:54 The Benefits of Productization and Lifetime Value

23:04 Serving Small Businesses and Providing Relief