Agency Bytes Podcast
Agency Bytes is a video podcast series that packs a ton of important agency information on one topic, from one expert into a 25-minute brief.
Why 25 minutes?
Because who has the attention span for much more these days, and you can squeeze in a listen between meetings with time for a bathroom break or coffee refill before your next meeting.
Easily find the episode you’re looking for with the Podcast Search feature - type in a guest name, topic, or episode number and voila!
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Ep 157 – How Sam Shepler Grew StorysSnap Through Acquisitions Instead of Retainers
Sam Shepler, founder and CEO of StorySnap, joins me to unpack why he's never chased retainers in the B2B video space and how gross margin, not billing structure, actually determines whether an agency can scale. We talk about why feast-or-famine is really a symptom of weak lead flow, not a billing problem, and why his best acquisitions add new capability instead of just new revenue. Sam also breaks down the gross margin mistake he sees in nearly every agency P&L he reviews, and why pulling revenue forward matters more than the comfort of predictable monthly billing.
Ep. 151 – How Mark Homer Buys & Sells Agencies Without a Pile of Cash
In episode 151, I sit down with Mark Homer of Grandin Holdings to demystify M&A for agency owners. We bust the myth that you need a pile of cash to buy an agency, dig into why your network is your best source of deals, and talk through what actually makes a business sellable — and worth keeping. If you've ever assumed M&A wasn't for you, this one will change your mind.
How Steve Guberman Built, Sold, and Reinvented His Agency — Season 4 Kickoff
In episode 150, I flipped the mic. To kick off Season 4, I handed the host chair to my friend Todd Giannattasio of Tresnic Media — a returning guest from episode 10, and the guy who helped me name Agency Outsight in the first place.
This one's more personal than most. Todd walks me through my journey from screw-off art kid to graphic designer to accidental agency owner, the acquisition that should have been the first of many, selling my agency, and the grief that ultimately reshaped how I think about purpose, work, and what a business is really for. We get into the asset mindset, programmatic M&A as a growth lever, why most founders pay themselves last (and shouldn't), and the copycat goals that keep agency owners chasing someone else's dream.
If you've ever wondered what's actually on the other side of an exit — or whether you're building a business or just a really demanding job — this is the conversation.
Key Bytes
• Most agency founders accidentally build a job, not an asset — and the difference shows up the day you try to sell.
• Programmatic M&A unlocks exponential growth that organic effort simply can't match.
• Buying talent is faster, safer, and more predictable than hiring it.
• You don't need a truckload of cash to acquire — SBA loans, earnouts, and seller financing make deals possible at almost any size.
• Paying yourself last isn't noble — it's a habit that quietly devalues the business you built.
• Copycat revenue goals pull founders into chasing numbers that mean nothing to their actual life.
• Grief, burnout, and life events have a way of forcing the clarity most founders avoid.
• Creative empathy — not tactics — is still the most underrated edge agency owners have.
Chapters
00:00 Flipping the mic: why Todd is interviewing me
02:47 From screw-off art kid to graphic designer
05:30 Starting the agency with ego and no business plan
08:25 The acquisition I should have repeated four times
11:00 Selling the agency and what came after
14:30 Grief, COVID, and finding purpose in the garden
17:10 Launching Agency Outsight and pricing it on instinct
21:40 The asset mindset: building enterprise value
26:00 Programmatic M&A as the real growth lever
30:15 Why founders pay themselves last (and shouldn't)
33:00 Copycat goals and chasing someone else's dream
36:00 Rapid-fire questions and closing thoughts
Ep 140 – Michael Janda, More Creative Academy – The Creative’s Guide to Growing Up: From Portfolio to Profits to Peace of Mind
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In episode 140, I sit down with Michael Janda—agency founder, bestselling author, and one of the most respected voices helping creatives master the business side of creativity. Michael built and sold Riser, worked with giants like Disney and Google, and later led creative teams at Fox before dedicating his career to teaching creatives how to price, position, and run their businesses without burning out.
We dig into the mental and operational “growing up” that every creative eventually faces: getting past portfolio thinking, charging confidently, understanding value, eliminating chaos, and building a more peaceful (and profitable) creative life. Michael’s straight-talk wisdom hits every agency owner exactly where they need it—no fluff, no ego, just clarity.
Key Bytes
• Why creatives struggle with pricing — and how to fix it
• The mindset shift from freelancer to business owner
• How Michael positioned his agency to win massive clients
• The surprising relationship between process, profit, and peace
• What creatives get wrong about value
• Why “portfolio thinking” holds owners back
• How to build a business that supports your life, not the other way around
Chapters
00:01 Welcome + Michael’s background and agency journey
04:12 From creative chaos to building processes that scale
09:45 Why pricing is emotional—and how to make it objective
14:30 Portfolio vs. business owner mindset
19:58 Finding ideal clients and positioning that works
25:21 How Michael sold his agency and what he learned
31:44 The psychology of creative profitability
38:10 Achieving peace of mind as an owner
44:22 Michael’s advice for creatives who feel “stuck”
Michael Janda is an award-winning creative director, agency founder, and bestselling author.
He built the creative agency Riser with clients like Disney, Google, Warner Bros., and ABC, then sold the business after 13 successful years. Before that, he served as a creative director at Fox. Michael
is the author of Burn Your Portfolio and The Psychology of Graphic Design Pricing. Today, he shares practical, no-fluff strategies to help creative professionals master business, pricing, and growth.
Community: https://morecreativeacademy.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/morejanda
YouTube: https://youtube.com/morejanda
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/morejanda
Website: https://michaeljanda.com
Courses: https://morejanda.teachable.com
Ep 139 – Melanie Chandruang, We Consult – Agency Ops that Actually Scale: Financials, Workflows, and AI That Works
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Ep 139 – Melanie Chandruang, We Consult – Agency Ops that Actually Scale: Financials, Workflows, and AI That Works
In episode 139, I sit down with Melanie Chandruang, founder of WeConsult and a strategic operations partner for creative agencies. Melanie has spent the last seven years helping agencies tighten up their financials, streamline workflows, and build stronger leadership teams—while also navigating two maternity leaves, a cross-country move, and re-entering the industry in one of its toughest seasons.
We dig into how she rebuilt WeConsult after stepping away to have kids, what’s changed in the agency landscape since 2023, and why she’s now staying higher-level as a fractional ops leader instead of getting buried in implementation. Melanie breaks down what healthy leadership actually looks like, why so many founders remain the bottleneck even after hiring “senior” people, and how clear ownership, scorecards, and trust change everything.
We also get tactical: what she looks for first in the financials, the operational metrics that matter most, and why agencies without documented processes are struggling the most with AI adoption. We wrap by talking about leading through uncertainty, avoiding burnout, and the simple practice Melanie uses to remind herself of the value she’s creating—plus her very 90s go-to karaoke song.
Key Bytes
• Clean financials and clear reporting are the true foundation of scalable ops
• Workflow ownership matters — if it’s nobody’s job, it’s nobody’s job
• Founders stay bottlenecks when leadership has no autonomy or scorecards
• Agencies with documented systems adopt AI faster (and with fewer messes)
• Strong leadership = trust, clarity, and shared problem-solving
• Self-care and boundaries are essential for sustainable agency ownership
Chapters
00:01 Intro and how Melanie rebuilt WeConsult after kids and a cross-country move
02:48 Stepping away from client work, losing momentum, and clawing back into a changed industry
05:36 Why Melanie now stays high-level and pushes implementation to internal teams and automation
07:42 Founders as bottlenecks and what a truly strong leadership team looks like
11:15 Ego, scale, and the operational shifts required for owners to get out of the way
15:36 Where Melanie starts operationally: financials, workflows, and clear ownership
18:07 The agency financial metrics that actually matter (profitability, cash, utilization, and more)
22:03 Why documented systems are the key to successful AI adoption (and how messy it gets without them)
26:00 Leading through uncertainty, rebuilding a business, and protecting your own wellbeing
28:38 AI note-takers, imposter syndrome, and Melanie’s “value” practice
31:36 Melanie’s 90s karaoke pick and where to learn more about WeConsult
Melanie Chandruang is the Founder of WeConsult and a Strategic Operations Partner for creative agencies. With over 15 years in the industry, she helps agency owners boost profits, streamline operations, and move big initiatives forward so they can focus on growth and what matters most.
Ep 138 – Jordan Snider, Token Creative – The impact of integrating Ignition App
Ep 138 – Jordan Snider, Token Creative – The impact of integrating Ignition App
In episode 138, I sit down with Jordan Snider, co-founder and CTO of Token Creative Services, to break down the real impact of integrating Ignition App into their agency operations. Jordan shares how Token went from scattered proposals, manual invoices, and nearly $40k in aging AR to a streamlined, single-system workflow that clients actually appreciated.
We dig into the operational before/after: centralized proposals and agreements, automated billing, faster close rates, clearer scope definition, easier upsells and renewals, and the elimination of unbilled “mystery hours.” Jordan also talks about forecasting clarity — and why dashboards that tie proposals, renewals, and revenue projections together are a game changer for decision-making.
This episode is a grounded look at what happens when an agency stops tolerating a duct-taped sales and billing process and finally upgrades the operational spine of the business.
Key Bytes
• Token’s breaking point was nearly $40k in aging AR — a clear sign the proposal and billing process was broken.
• Clients were confused by multiple proposal versions, scattered contracts, and manual payments; consolidating everything through Ignition simplified the entire client experience.
• The biggest financial lift came from capturing previously unbilled variable hours and out-of-scope work.
• Automated reminders and stored payment methods dramatically reduced AR and manual follow-up.
• Forecasting became easier with visible open proposals, renewal pipelines, and year-over-year revenue projections.
• Simplifying the tech stack cut both software cost and constant integration maintenance.
• Ignition enabled Token to shift from hourly pricing to value-driven retainers because operations finally supported it.
• Jordan’s advice: delaying this overhaul guarantees regret — proactively fixing it avoids the forced crisis moment.
Chapters
00:00 Intro and why Token’s Ignition story matters
02:05 Token’s early days and “brute force” agency ops
03:10 The $40k AR wake-up call
05:10 What was broken in their proposal + onboarding workflow
06:55 Client reactions after switching to Ignition
07:50 Close rates, renewals, and handling scope creep
09:40 Capturing unbilled work and shrinking AR
11:55 Forecasting and metrics that changed decision-making
14:00 Simplifying the tech stack and ditching integrations
16:40 How clarity improved both scope and service delivery
23:40 Productizing services and shifting to retainers
25:05 Jordan’s advice for agencies resisting the overhaul
26:50 Rapid fire and wrap-up
Jordan Snider is the Co-Founder and CTOof Token Creative Services, a full-service digital marketing and creative agency based in Kitchener-Waterloo. With a background in full-stack software engineering, Jordan bridges the gap between technical development and creative marketing. He has contributed personal reflections to platforms supporting victims of family violence, discussing the unique stressors faced by newcomers and the importance of community support systems.
His work reflects a blend of technical precision and a commitment to social impact, aligning with Token Creative’s mission to support businesses making positive environmental or social changes.
ignitionapp.info/agencybytes-trial
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Ep 136 – JP Holecka, Power Shifter Digital – Building the AI-Driven Agency: Lessons from Power Shifter’s Evolution
Ep 136 – JP Holecka, Power Shifter Digital – Building the AI-Driven Agency: Lessons from Power Shifter’s Evolution
In episode 136, I sit down with JP Holecka, founder and CEO of Power Shifter Digital, a Vancouver-based agency leading the shift toward AI-driven digital products and content creation. With over 30 years of experience in design, film, and technology, JP has guided multiple teams through successful AI rollouts—transforming workflows, scaling creativity, and redefining how digital agencies deliver value.
We talk about what it really takes to evolve your agency for the AI era, how to navigate the culture shift that comes with automation, and why embracing AI is less about replacing people and more about amplifying what they’re capable of.
KEY BYTES
• AI isn’t replacing creativity—it’s amplifying it
• True transformation starts with changing workflows, not job titles
• The most successful AI rollouts start with internal adoption before client delivery
• Leadership has to model curiosity and experimentation
• Agencies that treat AI as a tool, not a threat, are finding their competitive edge
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
02:01 JP’s background and the evolution of Power Shifter
06:32 The first AI experiments that changed everything
10:45 Getting team buy-in and overcoming initial skepticism
14:58 Building processes around AI rather than forcing it in
20:10 Human creativity in the age of automation
25:36 How AI has changed client expectations
31:12 Leadership lessons from scaling an AI-driven agency
36:45 The next frontier of digital work
40:30 JP’s advice for agency founders starting their AI journey
43:00 Rapid Fire Questions
JP Holecka is the founder and CEO of Power Shifter Digital, a Vancouver-based agency leading the shift toward AI-driven digital products and content creation. With over 30 years of experience in design, film, and technology, JP has guided multiple agencies through successful AI rollouts—transforming workflows, scaling creativity, and redefining how teams collaborate with generative tools.
https://www.powershifter.com/studio
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jpholecka/
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Ep 135 – Drew McLellan, AMI – The Owner’s Actual Job: Vision, Profit, and a Pipeline That Isn’t You
In episode 135, I sit down with Drew McLellan, CEO of Agency Management Institute and host of the Build a Better Agency podcast. Drew’s been in the business for over 30 years and has coached thousands of agencies on how to grow profitably, attract better clients, and actually enjoy the perks of ownership.
In this conversation, we unpack what the real job of an agency owner is — and how easy it is to get lost in the weeds doing everyone else’s. Drew shares how founders can move from day-to-day chaos to the higher-level work of vision, leadership, and building a pipeline that doesn’t depend on them. We also talk about the mental shift from “founder hustle” to “CEO clarity,” and what it really means to build an agency that serves your life, not the other way around.
Key Bytes
• The three things only the owner can and should do
• Why your agency’s profit tells the truth about your leadership
• Building a self-sustaining pipeline that runs without you
• How to structure your week around the owner’s actual job
• The difference between running an agency and owning a business
• What makes an agency truly “sellable”
• Common traps that keep founders stuck in the weeds
• How to get your time back without losing control
Chapters
00:00 Welcome and Drew’s background
04:12 The evolution from founder to true agency owner
09:45 What the “owner’s actual job” really is
14:58 Why agency profit is a mirror of leadership
20:17 Building systems and pipelines that aren’t you
26:04 The importance of clarity and delegation
31:42 Common mistakes that limit scalability
38:27 How to build an agency that can thrive without you
44:10 Preparing for eventual sale or succession
49:22 Drew’s advice for new and seasoned agency owners
Drew McLellan has worked in advertising for 30+ years and started his own agency, McLellan Marketing Group in 1995 after a five-year stint at Y&R and still actively runs the agency.
He spends the lion’s share of his time running Agency Management Institute (AMI), which he also co-owns/runs with his wife Danyel.
AMI serves thousands of agencies small to mid-sized agencies (advertising, digital, marketing, media and PR) every year, so they can increase their AGI, attract better clients and employees, mitigate the risks of being self-employed in a such volatile business and best of all — let the agency owner actually enjoy the perks of agency ownership.
AMI is the only agency network that is run by an active agency owner. It offers:
Public workshops for agency owners, leaders and account service staff
Owner peer networks (like a Vistage group or 4A’s forums)
Private coaching/consulting for agency owners
Annual primary research with CMOs and client decision makers about their work with agencies
The highly praised podcast Build A Better Agency
The only conference built for small to mid-sized agencies – the Build A Better Agency Summit
Drew often appears in publications like Entrepreneur Magazine, New York Times, Washington Post, Forbes, AdAge, CNN, BusinessWeek, and many others. The Wall Street Journal calls him “one of 10 bloggers every entrepreneur should read.”
He’s also written several books, the most recent being Sell with Authority (January 2020). The latest book has garnered rave reviews and has been the guidebook for agency growth and business development in today’s world.
Drew also speaks at leading agency and marketing conferences like Inbound, Content Marketing World and MAICON and is often cited in agency centric content for his expertise in the industry.
When he’s not hanging out with clients or agency owners and their staff, Drew spends time with his wife, their blended family and following his beloved Dodgers.
http://agencymanagementinstitute.com
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Ep 133 – Kirstin Russ, Practical Edge AI – AI Adoption for Agencies: From Internal Automation to Sellable Services
In episode 133, I dive into the real-world path of AI adoption for agencies with guest Kirstin Russ, founder of Principal Edge AI and Mountains to Sea Media. We unpack the four “zones” of adoption (from denial to productized services), why most AI projects fail without structure and change management, and how to turn internal automations into billable client solutions. We also hit on junior-talent pipelines in an AI world, the risk of “robot-trained-by-robots” content, pricing when you’re still learning, and the discovery discipline required to make automations actually stick.
Key Bytes
• The winning agencies move from “dabbling in automations” to selling AI-powered solutions that solve specific client problems.
• 95% of AI projects fail because of missing structure, messy data, and zero change management — fix those first.
• AI should elevate people to higher-value work; train juniors to work with AI, not to be replaced by it.
• Don’t chase every shiny tool; build repeatable agent patterns and a stable stack you trust.
• Discovery is everything: a “15-step” flow usually hides 30 more steps — price and scope accordingly.
• Monetization starts with ops pain: map ugly manual workflows, then automate the “swivel-chair” steps.
• Thought leadership beats generic AI copy: capture founder audio, codify brand voice + ICPs, then assist with AI.
• Profit vs. quality is a real tension — set guardrails so efficiency never erodes outcomes.
Chapters
00:00 Intro & Kirstin’s two businesses
00:57 Why an outsource-first agency model
03:07 Year of deep AI study and first tools “in the wild”
04:43 The four zones of agency AI adoption
06:14 From “getting ahead” to “survive”: disruption hits marketing
09:01 Why AI projects fail: structure, data, and change management
11:00 Practical internal automations (transcripts → CRM, follow-ups, etc.)
12:58 Junior talent in an AI era & the content quality dilemma
15:18 Building an AI content assist system (voice, ICP, research)
18:48 Tool sprawl vs. foundations; avoiding shiny-object traps
20:40 Can clients DIY? Positioning & selling AI services
21:08 Case studies: Square inventory workflow & quote tool
24:38 Pricing while you’re learning; managing expectations
27:18 Aha moments: you can’t do it all; systemize & delegate
29:14 Theme songs, imposter syndrome, and wrap up
Kirstin Russ is a seasoned business strategist with 30 years of cross-industry experience who brings a unique dual approach to business growth. As the founder of Practical Edge AI, she helps businesses leverage artificial intelligence to automate growth, reduce manual workload, and improve profitability—often delivering measurable results within the first week.
Simultaneously, as the driving force behind Mountains to Sea Media, a Western North Carolina-based digital marketing agency, Kirstin helps businesses amplify their online presence through strategic internet marketing, data analytics, and performance-focused web design.
Kirstin's superpower lies in her holistic approach to business analysis, understanding how systems interconnect and where AI can enhance traditional & digital marketing strategies. By combining cutting-edge AI solutions with proven digital marketing expertise, she creates integrated growth pathways that optimize both operations and customer acquisition.
With an approachable style and commitment to practical results, Kirstin transforms business challenges into opportunities. Her guiding question remains: "If you could wave a magic wand and change anything about your business, what would it be?"
https://mountainstoseamedia.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/practical-edge-ai/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/mountains-to-sea-media/
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Ep 132 – Leah Leaves, Alderaan Operations Solutions – Break the Bottleneck: How Operators Reduce Burnout and Unlock Scale
In episode 132, I talk with Leah Leaves, founder of Alderaan Operations Solutions, where she helps remote digital agencies grow without the grind. Known for her no-fluff, systems-first approach, Leah and her team embed expert operations managers directly into agencies to break bottlenecks, reduce burnout, and build businesses that can scale without the founder in every decision.
We dig into what causes owners to become the bottleneck, the difference between goals, systems, and team accountability, and how every agency—no matter the size—can start building a foundation that prevents burnout and supports growth. Leah also shares how to identify when it’s time to bring in an operator, how to delegate effectively, and why even the best creative agencies need structure to thrive. We wrap by exploring how AI fits into internal operations and why every agency needs an AI Ops roadmap, even if it’s just six months ahead.
Key Bytes
• Burnout often begins with unclear goals and missing systems; clarity is the antidote.
• Leah outlines four agency owner archetypes—the Trusting Optimist, Firefighting Founder, Reluctant Gatekeeper, and Visionary Leader—and how operators help each evolve.
• Delegation isn’t dumping tasks; it’s empowering your team with context and ownership.
• Documenting the “why” behind your systems drives consistency and accountability.
• Operators create the scaffolding for scale—allowing founders to focus on vision, not firefighting.
• Every agency, regardless of size, benefits from an AI Ops roadmap to guide internal efficiency.
• Start with what you already have—processes, checklists, or recurring workflows—and build from there.
• Systems don’t kill creativity; they protect it by removing chaos and decision fatigue.
Chapters
00:00 Intro and welcome with guest Leah Leaves, founder of Alderaan Operations Solutions
02:00 The Star Wars origin of “Alderaan” and Leah’s path from journalism to operations
05:30 From creative to systems thinker: finding flow in operations
08:00 How unclear goals and missing systems cause bottlenecks
10:00 Guardrails vs. micromanagement: empowering the team without overengineering
13:00 The burnout cycle and why delegation is a creative act
15:00 The four types of agency owners and their operational challenges
20:00 Shifting from bottleneck to visionary: the operator’s role in scaling
23:30 Why every agency needs an AI ops roadmap
26:30 Putting “robots” in the org chart and making automation work
29:00 Low-hanging AI wins: onboarding, recruiting, and workflow automation
32:00 Rapid-fire Q&A: distilling systems, theme songs, and unexpected client wins
34:45 Closing thoughts and where to find Leah
Leah Leaves is the Founder of Alderaan Operations Solutions, where she helps remote digital marketing agencies grow without the grind. Known for her no-fluff, systems-first approach, she and her team embed expert Operations Managers directly into agencies to break bottlenecks, reduce burnout, and build businesses that can scale without the founder in every decision.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/1eah1eaves/
https://alderaanenterprise.com/
http://agencyownerquiz.com/
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Ep 130 – Peter Lang, Digital Agency Business – Buy, Don’t Build! Using M&A to Scale Your Agency
In episode 130, I sit down with Peter Lang—co-founder of Digital Agency Business and AVA, and longtime agency acquirer—to unpack how agency owners can use M&A as a growth superpower. Peter shares the seven-day deal that doubled his agency’s revenue, the due-diligence signals that actually matter (talent, client stickiness, and contracts), why most M&A fails on culture not math, and how AI is reshaping hiring and service models. We also get into founder identity after the sale, what “professional maturity” looks like, and why many owners are really capital allocators in the making.
Key Bytes
• M&A can compress years of organic growth into months—if you underwrite people, clients, and terms before the numbers.
• Culture fit and integration planning beat fancy spreadsheets; most failed deals are value misalignment, not valuation.
• AI is wiping out entry-level tasks first; the winners redeploy A-players and teach clients how to use AI, not hide from it.
• Founder-led sales can’t be the only engine; build repeatable sales capacity that survives distractions.
• You already “work for” whoever pays you—selling changes the customer, not your agency DNA.
• Treat time like capital: budget it, forecast it, and review it like an effective executive.
Chapters
00:00 Cold open, quick re-intro
01:08 The seven-day deal that doubled revenue
03:32 Doing three deals in 90 days during COVID
06:36 Common seller misconceptions and Peter’s deal lens
09:19 Endurance mindset, calendars, and operating like an athlete
13:46 What buyers actually look for beyond the numbers
17:43 AI’s impact on talent, delivery, and survival to 2027
22:10 Life after the sale and “professional maturity”
24:51 Rapid fire: celebrating wins, the race that changed him, dream acquisition
27:45 Where to learn more (digitalagencybusiness.com)
Resources mentioned
• Effective Executive by Peter Drucker (time tracking and retrospective)
• GrowthHackers community (context on Peter’s portfolio)
• digitalagencybusiness.com (Peter’s M&A training and upcoming book)
Peter Lang is an entrepreneur, investor, and philanthropist with over 15 years of experience building, buying, and selling companies across online publishing, media, advertising, e-commerce, and consulting. He’s the co-founder and Chief M&A Officer at AVA, a fast-growing digital agency holding company acquiring businesses in the $1–10 million range.
Peter also runs Digital Agency Business (DAB), an e-learning company that trains entrepreneurs to launch and scale their own agencies. A former CEO of Uhuru Network and advisor to multiple companies, Peter’s passion lies in using mergers and acquisitions to accelerate growth. An endurance athlete and family man, he lives by the belief that anything is achievable with hard work.
Contact Peter:
Ep 122 – Arielle Cohen, Business 411 – Building Scalable Systems for a Multi-Seven Figure Agency
Ep 122 – Arielle Cohen, Business 411 – Building Scalable Systems for a Multi-Seven Figure Agency
In episode 122, I sit down with Ariel Cohn, founder of Marketing 411 and CMO of Business 401, to talk about how she scaled a multi–seven figure agency by going all-in on the roofing niche. Ariel shares why niching transformed their operations, how they built scalable systems and sister companies to serve the industry, and why embracing AI and virtual teams has been key to their growth. We also dive into the mindset shifts required to build an agency that supports your lifestyle — instead of running you into the ground.
Key Bytes
• Niching down creates clarity, repeatable systems, and faster scaling opportunities
• A sister company approach can build trust and open new revenue streams
• Retainer-based models help stabilize cash flow and increase profitability
• Virtual teams and offshore talent can boost efficiency without sacrificing quality
• Embracing AI is no longer optional — it’s essential for agency survival and growth
Chapters
00:01 Intro and Ariel’s background in roofing marketing
01:12 From generalist to roofing specialist: why niching was key
04:44 Myths about niching and lessons from going all-in
07:32 Defining the ideal client profile and setting minimums
09:00 Early challenges and focusing on revenue first
12:34 Building two complementary companies for growth
16:22 Leveraging virtual teams, overseas talent, and AI for scale
19:07 Retainer models vs. one-off projects for stable growth
20:29 Staying hungry and setting bigger goals
23:18 Embracing AI and adapting to industry change
25:10 Rapid fire: worst advice, daily habits, and explaining her job to a 5-year-old
Arielle Cohen is the Co-Founder of Marketing 411 and CMO of Business 411. With over a decade of experience in marketing, she has mastered the art of growing a Multi 7 Figure Agency through building a scalable and efficient operation. As the company grows, her focus has shifted to optimizing her time and building a dream company that supports her vision and lifestyle—without letting the business take over.
Social: @arielleCEO
Ep 121 – Shawn Johnston, Forge & Smith – Profitable by Design: Streamlining Dev Without Cutting Corners
Ep 121 – Shawn Johnston, Forge and Smith – Profitable by Design: Streamlining Dev Without Cutting Corners
In episode 121, I sit down with Shawn Johnston, founder of Forge and Smith and creator of Refoundry—a low-code WordPress platform that’s transforming how agencies build and deliver websites. We talk about how Shawn cut delivery time by 70%, turned profit margins around using the Profit First method, and transitioned his agency toward a scalable, productized model. He shares insights on navigating developer pushback, balancing client empowerment with agency control, and preparing for evolving tech shifts like AI in web development. Whether you’re struggling with project bottlenecks, shrinking budgets, or scaling challenges, Shawn’s story offers a clear path forward for building smarter, more profitable systems.
Key Bytes• Refoundry cut Forge and Smith’s development time by 70%, transforming profitability.
• Adopting Profit First changed their approach to pricing and overhead limits.
• Client empowerment through low-code builds loyalty and drives referrals.
• Transitioning leadership allowed Shawn’s team to grow into bigger roles.
• Technological shifts (like Webflow and AI) demand constant agency adaptation.
• Productizing an internal tool opened new revenue streams beyond services.
• Balancing developer pride with client needs is critical for successful adoption.
• Early lessons in print taught Shawn to anticipate and embrace industry change.
Chapters00:01 Introduction to Shawn Johnston and Forge and Smith
02:11 Moving from freelance to full agency and early challenges
04:39 Implementing Profit First and shifting to scalable systems
06:38 Why Refoundry: Bringing low-code to WordPress
08:22 Cutting development time and improving project profitability
11:23 Developer pushback and prioritizing client empowerment
14:44 Evolving Refoundry into a product for other agencies
17:03 Transitioning leadership and building team collaboration
24:17 Preparing for tech shifts like AI and staying nimble in delivery
28:30 Rapid fire questions and final reflections
Shawn Johnston is the founder of Forge and Smith, a digital agency that’s launched over 500 websites in the past 13 years. After hitting the usual delivery bottlenecks and burnout cycles, he built Refoundry—a low-code platform for WordPress that helped his team cut build times by 70% and scale without sacrificing quality. Now he’s on a mission to help other agencies streamline delivery, boost margins, and build systems that actually work.
Contact Shawn:
Ep 116 – Clara Stedman and Ben Engvall, Palmer Advisors – The Dynamics of Agency M&A
In episode 116, I sit down with Clara Stedman and Ben Engvall, founding partners of Palmer Advisors, a boutique M&A firm focused on marketing, media, and tech agencies in the lower to middle market. Clara and Ben break down what agency owners need to understand about selling their business, navigating deal structures, and preparing for acquisition—even if an exit isn’t on the immediate horizon.
We talk about why Palmer was founded, the major shifts in deal terms over the last few years, and why so many agency founders are choosing to stay on post-acquisition. They also share candid insights into common red flags that signal an agency isn’t ready to sell—and what to do about it. We dive into how niching (especially by industry) impacts valuation, what kinds of agencies are in high demand, and how AI and proprietary tools may influence future multiples.
Whether you’re dreaming of an exit, fielding buyer interest, or just want to understand how your agency is valued, this episode pulls back the curtain on the M&A process and what today’s buyers really want.
Key Bytes
• Palmer Advisors focuses on M&A for service-based businesses.
• The agency market is evolving with new deal structures.
• Cultural fit is crucial in agency acquisitions.
• Founders should not exit at their peak performance.
• Timing is key when going to market for an exit.
• Having a strong leadership team is essential for agency sales.
• Niche agencies are more attractive to buyers.
• Understanding EBITDA is vital for agency owners.
• Deal structures can be creative and flexible.
• The future of M&A looks promising with technology advancements.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites
01:47 The Formation of Palmer Advisors
03:35 Reflections on the First Year
05:32 Understanding Agency M&A Dynamics
09:23 Identifying Readiness for Exit
13:28 The Importance of Owner Involvement
16:02 The Value of Niching in M&A
19:09 Demystifying M&A Terminology
23:19 Future Trends in M&A
25:11 The Role of IP and Technology in Valuation
28:34 Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts
Clara Stedman and Ben Engvall are the founding partners of Palmer Advisors, a boutique M&A advisory firm built specifically for founders of service-based businesses. With a focus on marketing, media, and tech agencies in the lower to middle market (typically $1–10M in EBITDA), Clara and Ben bring a modern, founder-first approach to buying, selling, and valuing businesses. They’ve quickly built a reputation for their strategic deal-making, brutally honest readiness assessments, and commitment to crafting win-win outcomes that align both financial and cultural goals. Clara leads as CEO, bringing a background in corporate retail and fitness, while Ben heads up M&A with a traditional finance foundation. Together, they’re reshaping what agency exits can—and should—look like.
Contact Palmer Advisors:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/clara-stedman-palmer-advisors/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-engvall-palmer-advisors/
Ep 115 – Jason Hennessey, Hennessey Digital – Owning a Niche and Scaling It to 8 Figures
In episode 115, I sit down with Jason Hennessey, internationally recognized SEO expert and CEO of Hennessey Digital. Jason shares the story of how a single talk at a legal mastermind sparked his first agency, and how he’s since scaled a powerhouse SEO firm serving top-tier law firms. We talk about niching down, the power of building a personal brand, and why delegation was key to scaling without burning out. Jason opens up about leadership, team culture, and how stepping back actually helped his agency grow faster. Plus, we dive into strategies like direct mail, personal outreach, and even outsourcing genius to level up results.
Key Bytes
• Jason Hennessy has been in SEO since 2001 and started his first agency in 2008.
• He transitioned from his first agency to Hennessy Digital in 2015, focusing on law firms.
• Innovative marketing strategies, like sending personalized books, helped him secure clients.
• Hennessy Digital primarily serves personal injury lawyers but sees potential in other legal niches.
• Building a personal brand has significantly increased response rates to his outreach.
• Delegation and outsourcing are key to scaling an agency effectively.
• Jason emphasizes the importance of investing in leadership and team development.
• He still engages with SEO on a personal level, leveraging external expertise.
• Agency culture is a priority, fostering support and recognition among team members.
• Asking for help and seeking coaching is crucial for agency owners.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites and Guest Background
01:04 Jason Hennessy's Journey in SEO and Agency Growth
03:55 Transitioning from First Agency to Hennessy Digital
07:00 Innovative Marketing Strategies for Law Firms
10:06 Market Potential and Niche Focus in Legal SEO
11:58 Building a Personal Brand and Leadership Structure
16:01 Scaling the Agency and Delegating Responsibilities
20:03 Passion for SEO and Outsourcing Expertise
23:05 Expanding Services Beyond SEO
24:54 Agency Culture and Team Dynamics
27:04 Personal Insights and Advice for Agency Owners
Jason Hennessey is an entrepreneur, internationally recognized SEO expert, author, speaker, podcast host, and business coach. Since 2001, Jason has been reverse-engineering the Google algorithm as a self-taught student and practitioner of SEO and search marketing.
Jason's expertise has fueled the growth and successful sale of multiple businesses, starting with a pioneering dot-com venture in the wedding industry. Serving as the CEO of Hennessey Digital since 2015, Jason's leadership has transformed a modest consultancy into a thriving eight-figure agency, earning a place on the prestigious Inc. 5000 list for five consecutive years. He is also the author of two Amazon bestsellers titled Law Firm SEO and Honest SEO.
As a sought-after keynote speaker and a frequent guest on podcasts and webinars, Jason shares his wealth of knowledge. He contributes as a columnist to respected publications such as the Washington Post and is a regular contributor to Entrepreneur, Forbes, Inc., Newsweek, and Rolling Stone Magazine. Jason's accomplishments extend to being honored with the Gold TITAN Business Award in the Entrepreneurship, Branding, Advertising, & Marketing category, as well as being recognized as a National Law Review Go-To Thought Leader.
Jason's journey has been enriched by his experience as a United States Air Force veteran and his attainment of a Bachelor of Arts degree in Marketing from the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Commencing his SEO career in Las Vegas and later establishing a strong presence in the legal industry in Atlanta, Jason now resides in the Los Angeles area with his wife, Bridget, and their three children.
Ep 114 – Courtney De Ronde, Forge Financial – Unlocking Business Growth
Ep 113 – Dr. Jeremy Weisz, Rise25 – The Gift of Podcasting
In episode 113, I sit down with Dr. Jeremy Weisz, co-founder of Rise 25 and host of the Inspired Insider podcast. Jeremy and I talk about how podcasting—when used the right way—can become one of the most effective tools for building real relationships, not just content. He breaks down the Dream 200 strategy for identifying ideal clients, why giving value always beats chasing sales, and how his agency uses both podcasting and strategic gifting to keep top-of-mind with partners and clients. We also dive into how he accidentally became an agency owner, the underrated power of thoughtful gifts, and his take on creating a high-impact referral ecosystem. And yes, we end with some rapid-fire questions—including the surprising mascot he’d pick for his agency.
Key Bytes
• Podcasting is a powerful tool for networking and professional development.
• Building relationships through podcasting can lead to business opportunities.
• The Dream 200 strategy helps identify and target ideal clients.
• Giving away valuable information attracts the right clients.
• Gifting strategies can enhance client engagement and retention.
• Podcasting can serve multiple purposes: authority building, SEO, and content creation.
• Networking through podcasts can create referral partnerships.
• Understanding your niche is crucial for effective marketing.
• Regular touchpoints with clients through gifts can strengthen relationships.
• Consider the source of business advice before acting on it.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Podcasting and Rise 25
02:52 The Evolution of Podcasting and Its Benefits
05:47 Building Relationships Through Podcasting
09:10 The Dream 200 Strategy for Targeting Clients
11:53 Gifting Strategies for Client Engagement
14:54 Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts
Dr. Jeremy Weisz has been featuring top entrepreneurs with video interviews since 2008 that include founders/CEOs of Pixar, P90X, Atari, Einstein Bagels, Mattel, Kettle Chips, RX Bars, Big League Chew, the Orlando Magic, and many more on www.InspiredInsider.com
He runs Rise25 which helps B2B businesses connect to their ‘Dream 200’ clients, and referral partners and get ROI, using a podcast. They eliminate 99% of the work and make sure you get ROI. Rise25 is an easy button for you to launch and run your podcast.
Podcasting has been one of the best things I've done both personally and professionally. It's been an amazing tool for connecting with referral partners, strategic partners, clients, and more.
Podcasting is like a "Swiss Army knife" because it is business development, referral marketing, strategic partnerships, lead generation, SEO, content creation, and personal and professional development, all in one.
Contact Dr. Weisz:
Ep 114 – Courtney De Ronde, Forge Financial – Unlocking Business Growth
In episode 114, I sit down with Courtney De Ronde, CEO of Forge Financial and Management Consulting, to talk about the powerful intersection of financial visibility and leadership growth. Courtney shares her journey from CPA to strategic business advisor, and we dig into her Simple Scale Up System—a framework designed to help agency leaders evolve from scrappy doers to scalable CEOs.
We explore the importance of accurate revenue recognition, the dangers of relying too heavily on gut instincts, and the mindset shifts needed to lead at the next level. Courtney also gets candid about AI’s impact on the accounting industry and why embracing technology is a must—not a maybe. We wrap things up with some rapid-fire questions that reveal the human side of this numbers expert.
Key Bytes
• Courtney De Ronde has over 20 years of experience as a CPA.
• Understanding financial visibility is crucial for business growth.
• AI presents both challenges and opportunities in the CPA industry.
• The Simple Scale Up System focuses on scaling leaders and organizations.
• Leaders must shift from relying on instincts to leveraging insights.
• Cash flow issues often indicate deeper business problems.
• Delegation and trust are essential for scaling a business.
• Learning from others' failures can accelerate growth.
• Financial reporting should match revenue with related expenses.
• Things don't have to be perfect to be effective.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites and Guest Background
01:04 Courtney's Evolution from CPA to Business Leader
03:19 Understanding Financial Visibility and Coaching Services
04:12 Common Financial Red Flags in Service-Based Businesses
08:06 The Impact of AI on the CPA Industry
12:25 The Simple Scale Up System Framework
15:46 Shifting Mindsets: From Instincts to Insights
22:53 Challenges in Scaling Dependent Businesses
25:13 Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts
Courtney De Ronde is the CEO of Forge Financial & Management Consulting and the creator of the Simple ScaleUp System™. With over 20 years as a CPA and 15 years in business
leadership, Courtney specializes in guiding small businesses from startup to scaleup. She’s an expert in business intelligence, leadership, and corporate finance. We’re thrilled to have her share her insights on how you can achieve your most ambitious goals.
Take our free Business Intelligence Grader to gain visibility within their business
Ep 111 – Corey Quinn – Deep Specialization
In episode 111 of Agency Bytes, I sit down with Corey Quinn—agency growth expert, author of Anyone, Not Everyone, and the guy who helped scale Scorpion from $20M to $150M. We unpack what it really means to specialize as an agency and why empathy might just be your most overlooked growth lever.
Corey shares how moving from generalist to deep specialization can unlock operational efficiency, stronger positioning, and a hell of a lot more revenue. We also dig into outbound sales strategies (including the power of gifting!), how to expand into multiple verticals without becoming a generalist again, and what the future of agency specialization looks like in an AI-driven world.
If you’ve ever worried about niching down “too far,” this conversation will flip that fear on its head.
Key Bytes
• Corey Quinn emphasizes the importance of deep specialization for agency growth.
• Empathy is crucial for understanding clients' specific problems.
• Transitioning from inbound to outbound sales requires a strategic approach.
• The generalist trap can lead to operational inefficiencies and client loss.
• Building trust through industry engagement is key to agency success.
• Agencies should consider adjacent verticals for expansion.
• Creative teams may need variety to stay engaged in specialized markets.
• The tools used in marketing may change, but the outcomes remain constant.
• Agencies should focus on solving real-world business problems for clients.
• Founders can explore new verticals once they achieve a certain market share.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Agency Growth and Specialization
01:11 Corey's Journey in the Agency World
03:02 Scaling Scorpion: From 20M to 150M
07:15 The Shift to Outbound Sales Strategies
11:44 Deep Specialization: Breaking the Generalist Trap
12:10 Empathy in Agency Specialization
19:10 Building Trust Through Industry Engagement
21:10 Expanding into New Verticals
25:17 Addressing Fears of Niching Down
27:42 Future Trends in Agency Specialization
Corey Quinn has over 18 years in the agency space, including as Scorpion's CMO, where he helped grow revenue from $20M to $150M in 6 years. His bestselling book: "Anyone, Not Everyone: a Proven System for Agencies to Escape Founder-Led Sales" has been endorsed by Aaron Ross, John Ruhlin, Dr. Benjamin Hardy, Marcel Petitpas, and many others.
Today, his company helps digital agencies become the go-to choice within a vertical market with his Deep Specialization Methodology.
Contact Corey:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/coreyquinn/
Ep 110 – James Barnard, Barnard Co – Going Viral: The TikTok Breakthrough
In episode 110 of Agency Bites, I sit down with the incredibly talented James Barnard, a logo designer and design educator based in Australia. We dive deep into his fascinating journey from the publishing world in the UK to building a thriving freelance design business powered by social media — especially TikTok! James shares how he crafted his pricing strategies, attracts qualified leads, and balances freelance life with family life. We also get into his design process, the value of design education today, and how he's expanded his income streams through courses and brand partnerships. Plus, we wrap things up with a few rapid-fire questions that give a glimpse into James's personal side. You won't want to miss this one!
Key Bytes
• James transitioned to graphic design at 25 after a career in publishing.
• Social media, especially TikTok, played a crucial role in his business growth.
• Viral content can significantly increase client leads and visibility.
• Pricing strategies are essential for attracting qualified leads.
• Balancing freelance work with personal life is a priority for James.
• A structured design process leads to higher quality work and client satisfaction.
• Diversifying income streams can alleviate pressure from client work.
• Education in design is evolving with social media as a learning tool.
• James emphasizes the importance of being hands-on in his work.
• Pitching for work is often a waste of time in the design industry.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to James Barnard
02:28 James's Journey into Graphic Design
05:30 The Impact of Social Media on Business
09:52 Going Viral: The TikTok Breakthrough
12:27 Pricing Strategies and Qualified Leads
14:49 Balancing Freelance Work and Personal Life
18:57 Design Process and Client Interaction
25:58 Diversifying Income Streams
30:11 The Value of Design Education
31:37 Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts
James Barnard is a logo designer and design educator specializing in creating logos and visual identities with meaning. With over 15 years of experience in the graphic design industry, he began his career in the UK’s publishing sector before transitioning into branding and education.
Passionate about sharing his expertise, James is dedicated to mentoring and inspiring the next generation of designers through his social platforms, where he provides valuable insights, tutorials, and industry knowledge.
https://instagram.com/barnardco/
https://www.tiktok.com/@barnardco
https://www.youtube.com/@barnardco
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesrbarnard/
Ep 109 - Tony Wilson, Accquip – Knowing Your Numbers
In episode 109 of Agency Bytes, I sit down with Tony Wilson, founder of Accquip and a financial powerhouse for agencies who want to stop flying blind. Tony shares his story of stepping out of corporate during the Great Resignation and stepping into his passion—helping agency owners build profitable businesses they actually love running.
We break down Days Till Zero, a simple but powerful metric Tony developed to help agency owners understand exactly how long their cash will last—and how to make smarter, proactive decisions before things get tight. Tony also dives into gross margin benchmarks, how overlooked they are, and why net profit alone doesn’t tell the full story.
Plus, we talk through:
• Red light, yellow light, and green light cash benchmarks every owner should know
• Project-level gross margin mistakes (and how to fix them)
• Why time tracking is about clarity, not micromanagement
• Smart investments vs. sitting on cash
If you’re ready to stop reacting and start running your agency with financial confidence, this one’s for you.
Key Bytes
• Tony Wilson's journey reflects the empowerment of agency owners.
• Accquip focuses on educating entrepreneurs about accounting.
• Understanding financial metrics leads to better decision-making.
• Days till zero is a crucial metric for agency health.
• Proactive financial management can prevent crises.
• Cash reserves should be monitored regularly.
• Gross margins are vital for assessing agency profitability.
• Identifying project profitability helps in resource allocation.
• Time tracking provides valuable operational insights.
• Agencies should prioritize selling over playing business.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites and Tony Wilson's Journey
01:37 The Concept of Equip and Its Mission
03:46 Understanding Days Till Zero: A Key Metric for Agencies
08:54 Proactive Financial Management for Agencies
11:34 Cash Reserves: Understanding Red, Yellow, and Green Light Zones
14:39 The Importance of Gross Margins in Agency Profitability
18:21 Identifying and Addressing Overhead and Project Profitability
21:02 Tools and Systems for Effective Time Tracking and Financial Management
24:11 Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts
Tony Wilson’s entrepreneurial journey was shaped by three pivotal moments: launching a business with his brother in 2010, witnessing his roommate’s life-changing pivot from carpenter to software developer, and becoming a father—which ignited his drive to lead by example. In 2021, Tony joined “The Great Resignation” to help digital agency owners grow thriving, profitable businesses without sacrificing their well-being. Through Accquip, he is on a mission to empower agency owners to build the businesses they love without going bankrupt in the process.
Contact Tony:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tony-wilson-cpa/
Ep 095 – Chip Griffin, SAGA – Agency Ownership Pitfalls
In episode 095 of Agency Bytes, I’m joined by Chip Griffin, founder of the Small Agency Growth Alliance (SAGA). With over 30 years of experience as an agency owner and entrepreneur, Chip shares how small PR, marketing, and creative agency owners can build businesses they truly love.
We dig into some of agency owners' pitfalls, including why chasing “copycat goals” and outdated benchmarks often leads to burnout, and why focusing on profit and personal satisfaction is key. Chip also breaks down his “floor-to-ceiling” pricing model, the importance of time tracking, and how finding focus (a.k.a. niching) can make your agency more efficient and profitable. Plus, we discuss how owners can step back from the grind and take control of their day-to-day.
If you’re ready to rethink your approach to running your agency, this episode is packed with actionable tips to help you grow sustainably and love what you do. Tune in now!
Key Bytes
• Commit to building a business you want to own.
• Define personal goals to shape your agency.
• Focus on profit, not just revenue or headcount.
• Time tracking is essential for understanding costs.
• Pricing should be based on project budgets and value.
• Finding focus helps improve efficiency and results.
• Agency owners often work too many hours on the wrong tasks.
• Control your day to enhance satisfaction.
• Selling an agency is often not a life-changing event.
• Life is too short to be miserable in your work.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Agency Growth
06:36 The Importance of Time Tracking
12:51 Pricing Strategies for Agencies
19:23 Common Pain Points for Agency Owners
25:19 Rapid Fire Questions and Final Thoughts
As the founder of the Small Agency Growth Alliance (SAGA), Chip Griffin helps small PR and marketing agency owners build businesses that they want to own. He works with them to grow profits, eliminate overwork, and improve their overall satisfaction.
As an experienced entrepreneur and agency owner himself, Chip shares the wisdom of his successes and the lessons from his failures. He understands the challenges and opportunities that face agency owners because he sat in the same chair and faced similar decisions.
Chip joined his first agency 30 years ago as a Junior Account Executive and has had an appreciation for the highs and lows these firms experience ever since.
Contact Chip:
