Ep 117 – Wanda Allen, Follow Up Sales – Overcoming the Fear of Follow-Up
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Featuring: Wanda Allen, Follow Up Sales
In episode 117, I sit down with Wanda Allen, international speaker, coach, and author of Follow Up Sales Strategies. With 25 years in the corporate world and a background in business banking, Wanda developed a systemized approach to sales follow-up that now helps business owners and sales professionals increase their close rates.
We dive into the psychology behind why so many people avoid follow-up, the fears that hold them back (hint: it’s not really about time), and how a simple shift in mindset and process can transform your sales pipeline. Wanda shares data-backed insights, actionable tips for improving follow-up cadence, and even debunks myths about being “pushy.” Whether you’re in active outreach or avoiding the phone like the plague, this episode will motivate you to reframe your follow-up game—and pick up the phone with purpose.
We also talk about her book-writing journey, the importance of believing in the value you bring, and a bucket-list dream that has her heading south of the border.
Key Bytes
• 98% of sales don’t happen on the first contact—follow-up is essential.
• Fear of being “pushy” and fear of rejection are the top two mindset blocks around follow-up.
• 80% of sales happen between the 5th and 12th contact—most people quit after 2.
• Follow-up is a form of service, not pressure—it shows interest and professionalism.
• The phone is the most efficient tool in sales, yet it’s the most underused.
• You can’t build trust without consistent, committed follow-up.
• Stop assuming silence means disinterest—prospects are often just busy.
• Confidence in your pricing comes from believing in your value.Chapters
00:01 – Introducing Wanda Allen and the importance of follow-up
01:04 – From corporate banking to follow-up systems expert
03:35 – Writing two books and why her first was retired
06:07 – The real reason people don’t follow up: mindset and fear
07:59 – How to prioritize follow-up and overcome procrastination
11:00 – Why consistent follow-up beats your competition
14:12 – Action over anxiety: staying out of your head during follow-up
16:18 – The forgotten power of the phone in today’s sales world
Wanda Allen is an international speaker, coach, and corporate trainer. She's also the author of Follow Up Savvy and Follow Up Sales Strategies. Wanda had a 25 year corporate career where she held the position of Senior Vice President for 15 years. She has a strong skill set for developing systems and applied this skill to the follow up process. She's an expert in helping entrepreneurs, business owners, and sales professionals increase pipelines, improve sales performance, and strengthen relationships by developing strong follow up skills.
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Steve / Agency Outsight (00:01.846)
Welcome to Agency Bites, a podcast dedicated to helping creative entrepreneurs thrive. I'm Steve Guberman from Agency Outsite, where I coach agency owners to build the business of their dreams. I'm excited to welcome Wanda Allen to the show this week. Wanda is an international speaker, coach, and author of Follow Up Savvy and Follow Up Sales Strategies. After a successful 25-year corporate career, including 15 years as a senior VP, she became an expert in helping business owners and sales pros boost their pipelines.
and close more deals through the power of follow-up. Wanda, I'm grateful for you to join us and big thanks to Ian Abrams from Treacle Factory for making the introduction.
Wanda Allen (00:41.572)
Well, thank you. It's my pleasure to be here.
Steve / Agency Outsight (00:44.108)
Yeah, so give kind of the quick, I'd like to get a quick background on.
Not necessarily your entire career, because 25 years in corporate could be a painful introduction, but kind of what brought you to where you are now and the whole follow-up world that you're involved in from a sales standpoint.
Wanda Allen (01:04.57)
So in my corporate career, the position I held kind of forced me to develop a brain for systems because I was a business banker, managed large departments on the lending side. And the only way you stay on top of everything is through systems. So I developed that skill. Well,
I was then at one point asked if I would consider the position of branch manager and I was ready for a change. I accepted it, which put me into sales. And when I studied the sales process and realized how critical follow up is to every single stage in the process, I'm like, but how do you do it? How do you stay on top of it all? And I fell back on what I know how to do well, which is create systems. So I developed these gosh,
16, 17, 18 years ago, I'd have to do the math, in a long, long time ago. And then the bank I was working for was acquired. We were not the lead bank. I was part of senior management. And you know how that story ends. And I also knew that banking had run its course in my life. And I was just ready for something different. And I didn't know what that was. And a friend of mine said, you should become a speaker and a coach and teach people how you follow up. And 14 years later, here I sit.
Steve / Agency Outsight (02:17.686)
I love that. Now who do you primarily work for or with? Who do help, I guess?
Wanda Allen (02:22.7)
I work with such an array of industries, like there's no special niche. mean, business owners, entrepreneurs, sales professionals, the reason it's such a wide array is because follow-up is a fundamental in the sales process. So regardless of what you're selling, what widget you're promoting, you have to know how to follow up if you want to make the sales process easier. So there's not one industry
I guess the biggest industry I've worked with most frequently are realtors. But having said that, I've worked with a slew of a whole lot of other industries beyond real estate.
Steve / Agency Outsight (03:06.766)
Interesting, like of all the careers that I've heard of, real estate seems the most surprising from, I feel like they're just fly paper. Like people just come to them or it's mostly their friends and family as far as sell my house for me. so that's an interesting, I don't know the industry very well other than what I've bought and sold. So interesting that that's one of the more popular ones. so you've got two books out and, they both focus on the follow-up.
Wanda Allen (03:26.446)
Yeah.
Steve / Agency Outsight (03:35.662)
process what talk about those a little bit
Wanda Allen (03:39.566)
Yeah, so I actually retired my first book because I wrote it so long ago. It's just not who I am today and the way I teach and what I teach. And so it was just important for me to have another means of education besides, because if you don't hear me speak.
Steve / Agency Outsight (03:43.074)
Okay.
Wanda Allen (03:59.192)
If you're not in my coaching program, you're not going to get this information. So that was one reason I did it. The second reason I did it was because I worked with a coach and said, if you're going to be a speaker, you have to have a book, you know, because then there's this perception that you're an expert in what you do, even though you know nothing more after you wrote the book than you did before. It's just that perception. So those are the two reasons I wrote my book. Books. Yeah.
Steve / Agency Outsight (04:24.302)
Okay. Books, yeah, yeah. So can you talk briefly about the process and the journey for you as an author of writing the books?
Wanda Allen (04:35.106)
Yeah, I'm not one of those authors that loves to write. It's not like therapy for me or anything. know authors love it, but I don't. But, and I was very intimidated when it was suggested that I write a book. And I heard somebody say, if you can talk about it, you can write it. And that changed everything for me.
And so I took like a three hour class on how to write a book. And I just went from there. And my first book wasn't very big, it was like 100 pages. And I rebranded my second book, my coach said, you need to put a little more meat into it. So it's like, I don't know.
hundred and seventy, hundred and eighty pages. But I wasn't intimidated. It is an undertaking. It's a commitment. And I didn't want to just dabble in it. You know, for three weekends, I put away Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and I told everyone in my world, don't contact me unless the building's on fire, you're head to emergency. You know, I needed, you know, some authors will go rent a cabin for a week, you know, but I needed to get it done. And that's how I did it.
Steve / Agency Outsight (05:28.238)
Mm-hmm.
Wanda Allen (05:51.346)
and I had focus time and it got done and I shipped it off to the editor and it was a thousand pound gorilla off my back. yeah, so that's how, that was my approach to getting it done, especially the second one, because I had to make it meatier.
Steve / Agency Outsight (06:07.276)
that yeah I love that you had a system and you're like here's how I'm gonna focus and nobody bothers me and there's your accountability because well what's she doing she's writing a book good for her how to go you know that kind of thing so very cool so let's dig into into the follow-up process and kind of where you come from with it why do you think so many people struggle with follow-up as part of their sales process
Wanda Allen (06:18.99)
Yeah.
Wanda Allen (06:31.348)
there's so many reasons. But first and foremost is the mindset towards follow up. And the biggest issue with mindset is fears. There's so many fears associated with following up, which is the number one reason why people don't do it. And the two primary fears is the ones I hear more than any of the others is fear of being pushy. I hear it all the time. If I keep following up, I feel like I'm being pushy. And then that extends to being a pest, bothering them and on and on.
And then the second biggest fear is fear of rejection. You know, that two-letter word. They don't want to hear it, so they stay away from it. So that's the biggest reason. You know, then they'll convince themselves, well, they don't have time. They're too busy. You know, I just couldn't get it done. That's not the truth. The truth is you just, there's an underlying fear and you're staying away from it. And follow-up work is very easy not to do. Super easy not to do.
Steve / Agency Outsight (07:05.782)
Mm-hmm.
Wanda Allen (07:27.738)
but it is so costly and detrimental to future business. Like it just, doesn't work if you don't follow up because research tells us only 2 % of sales are made on the first contact. That means 98 % of time you have to follow up or you run the risk of losing a lot of business.
Steve / Agency Outsight (07:46.102)
Yeah. So if it's so easy to not do my follow-up work, what can I do to kind of counteract putting it last on the list or doing everything first, or how do I program myself to prioritize that?
Wanda Allen (07:59.62)
You just have to really make a commitment that I am going to get this work done before I do anything else. You know, it's in the income producing category. Nothing should get done before your income producing work. If you will just commit to that, it'll change everything. But here's what happens. The income producing work tends to be the uncomfortable work for a lot of people. So you know what they do? They waste all day on the busy
Low priority, comfortable work. And then five o'clock hits and shoot, I didn't have time to get that follow-up work done, now it's time's fault. And so it really is just a commitment and it starts between the ears. you just have, maybe you're just so tired of losing business, of being behind on your sales goals, your income goals, not being where you wanna be. It can just come from pain where you draw the line in the sand and say, I'm done. I'm done with the chaos, cause that's what it is.
and I'm moving forward, regardless how scared I am or what's going on in between the ears, it's not life or death here. It could be life or death for your business or sales, but you're not having to jump out of a plane or lay roof tiles in August in Las Vegas. That's hard. Following up.
Steve / Agency Outsight (09:23.15)
Though I will say jumping out of a plane worth the jump as long as you got a good parachute. But so if it's fear that's holding me back, fear of rejection, all these things, and I'm responsible for sales, what are you recommending people do to overcome that fear to put things in motion, schedule time for follow up? How do I prioritize it when fear gets in the way?
Wanda Allen (09:27.034)
Okay.
Wanda Allen (09:45.946)
Well, first recognize that if your job is to bring in business, your job is to follow up. And if you're not doing your job, you're not being professional. Okay, that's just part of what you have to do. And when you follow up, you're actually showing initiative, you're pursuing, you're expressing interest in that prospect.
Steve / Agency Outsight (09:52.014)
Mm-hmm.
Wanda Allen (10:09.08)
you're pursuing them, you're showing them that you're interested in working with them. Because I know all your listeners know that their product or service will make a difference in that prospect's life or business. So if you don't follow up, if you don't do your job, you're doing a disservice obviously to yourself, but you're doing a disservice to that prospect because you're not giving them an opportunity to do business with you.
Steve / Agency Outsight (10:22.829)
Mm-hmm.
Wanda Allen (10:37.036)
And so the one that follows up is the one who gets the business. So, you know, put yourself in a place of your competitor. You're both pursuing the same prospect. You follow up twice and then quit. And 90 % of people follow up twice or less and then quit. That's based on research. Your competitor.
Steve / Agency Outsight (10:58.178)
Wow.
Wanda Allen (11:00.954)
is following up, the prospect has all kinds of issues, it's not time, I'm not ready, they ignore you three times, now they're going on vacation, I mean on and on, we all have prospects like that. But the competitor is consistently following up and responding and doing what they should do and doing their job. Who's making the better impression?
The one that follows up twice and quits or the one who's staying in the game. So just put yourself in that light. No, I am going to be that professional and show them that I have initiative and interest and not dropping them after two times. And just because the prospect doesn't respond, don't assume they're not interested because you're going to shoot yourself in the foot. Then you got to go out and find another lead when really they were interested. It just wasn't the right time.
Steve / Agency Outsight (11:52.952)
So you say it's not the right time. When somebody's following up on a hot lead, they're hot to trot on the first discovery, second discovery, whatever, but then they're not responding. They go radio silence. Typically it's because they're running their business. Life is busy. But talk through some of those steps that people that are in a sales role can take when they're not getting response. Are there different channels? Are there different messaging? Like cadence? How many follow ups? What does that process typically look like?
Wanda Allen (12:21.486)
Well, research tells us, I think it's a very accurate statistic, that 80 % of sales are made between the 5th and 12th contact. So don't even think about quitting until you've made five. Like, just don't even think about it. Listen, I wish prospects would say, hey, I'm not ready, you know, get back with me in a couple months. They don't. You know they do? They ignore you. Because they're not ready, and they won't be ready for a couple months.
Steve / Agency Outsight (12:29.442)
Wow.
Steve / Agency Outsight (12:44.344)
Mm-hmm.
Wanda Allen (12:50.122)
So that's why you cannot make that assumption. And what I can absolutely guarantee you is when you stay in the game and you do your due diligence and you follow up, at some point when they respond and actually pick up the phone or return your email, I promise you they're going to apologize. I'm sorry I haven't gotten back to you. And then they're going to thank you. But thank you so much for continuing to follow up. That I can guarantee you.
So you have to just be willing to be ignored. It's just part of the process, unfortunately. And just like, again, not make that assumption. And do not even think about quitting until you've made at least five contacts.
Steve / Agency Outsight (13:27.95)
Mm-hmm.
Steve / Agency Outsight (13:36.59)
Five to 12 is, and I've known for, I don't know, five to 10 years, it was five to seven when I was running a sales team, when I was doing more active sales outreach. So I would imagine it's increased to upwards of 12, if not more, touch points before we're gonna be able to close the deal. Because there's just so much signal to noise, there's so much going on in our world, everybody's inundated with messaging and spam and sales outreach and unknown callers and all that nonsense.
Wanda Allen (13:38.554)
and.
Steve / Agency Outsight (14:05.048)
So breaking through that noise really requires five to 10 upwards of 12 touch points.
Wanda Allen (14:12.44)
Yes, and also I call it staying out of your head. Like, are they gonna answer? Are they gonna ignore me again? Should I even follow? Just stay out, just focus on the action you need to take. Let the chips fall where they may. You really have no control over if they're gonna pick the phone up or return your email or text or however you're following up. So just focus on your action and that makes it easier too. It makes it lighter, I should say. Because, you know, in another...
Another trick is when you're following up, number one, believe you're going to get the business. Okay, because that's going to make it lighter. number two, I lost my train. So believe you're going to get the bit. I come from a place of service, not making the sale. Because when you come from a place of service, as I said earlier, you know you're going to make a difference. When you come from a place of service, you it's about the prospect.
Steve / Agency Outsight (14:48.952)
Mm-hmm.
Wanda Allen (15:09.912)
When you come from a place of making the sale, it's about you. And that can create some heaviness as well. So believe you're going to get the business and come from a place of service. And it will really lighten up the follow-up action.
Steve / Agency Outsight (15:25.71)
I think that's a, I don't want to say required, I'll say required, but that's a tough word. A required positioning mindset that when you are in a sales role, always be in a place of service and helpfulness. And it's easy to, I guess, force sales down somebody's throat, but at end of the day, if they're not ready to engage, why manipulate them or black belt them into a sale that they're not ready for. And so if you can provide that helpfulness and service mindset.
I think, yeah, I agree with you. goes so much further. What about the idea of, so let's say a lot of B2B sales these days are done through LinkedIn and email. Phones are, I want to say rarely, but less used these days. Breaking up the modality when you don't get a response. Can you like just randomly call somebody these days? Like, what are your thoughts on that?
Wanda Allen (16:18.148)
Yes, I think the phone for its originally intended purpose, which is, hi, how are you? It's the most efficient tool we have and it's the one that's used the least. There's so much fear around the phone today. But the reason it's so efficient is because I can cover with you in a five minute conversation what could take four emails in two days. And you're gonna tell me things on the phone that you will not tell me in an email.
Steve / Agency Outsight (16:24.558)
Mm-hmm.
Wanda Allen (16:47.896)
or a text or a private message. And it's about efficiency.
And because there's so many inherent fears with follow-up, I believe people hide behind their email, text, private message because they don't want to talk. It's easier to be ignored or easier to be rejected. my gosh, what if I bother them or what if they can't You know, and that's really what they, again, it's underlying fear. But I really challenge everyone listening to this. Use the phone first before you go to anything else. Give yourself a chance to experience
how effective it can be. And the other thing too is we are human beings and so we need that human interaction to some degree to deepen relationships. If you are only an email or a text, you're gonna have very little depth of relationship with that prospect and when you're staying in the game and doing your due diligence, you will actually start developing a relationship with the prospect.
because you're following up, you're talking to them. Sure, sometimes they still ignore you, but you still, and for any relationship to work, you have to have trust. And most prospects, you don't know them, right? Most of them, they're new to you, they're new relationships. Well, the number one way to start building trust with them is by following up, doing what you're supposed to, doing what you said you would do, doing what they ask you to do. If they say, hey, follow up with me in May.
Okay, you gotta make sure you do that because if you don't do it, guess what? The trust just went down the drain.
Steve / Agency Outsight (18:27.266)
Yeah, they're counting on that. again, they're wrapped up in their day to day, month to month, and now it's May and you didn't check up and they're like, whatever happened to so and so? What are some of the key mistakes that you see people making when they actually do their follow up? Those two continue to push it down the list of things to get done.
Wanda Allen (18:36.664)
Yes.
Wanda Allen (18:46.458)
Yeah, well first of all they quit too soon and they make assumptions that the prospect is change their mind, aren't interested, went with somebody else, I must have done something wrong, they must not have liked the quote. That is a huge mistake because most assumptions are not in favor of the salesperson. And so it pains me that here's another mistake is that
Steve / Agency Outsight (18:49.198)
Mm-hmm.
Steve / Agency Outsight (19:06.638)
Hmm.
Wanda Allen (19:11.822)
People work so hard on lead generation, know, regardless of how you're getting it, networking, cold calling, door knocking, asking for referrals. That's where the lion's share of the effort goes. But so little effort goes into following up that all of that lead generation time and energy is for naught. Because think about how many, let's just use networking. How many networking events you've been to, which is probably a lot for everybody.
how many people have actually followed up with you after you met? And it's a slim to none number. And so that just exhibits how wasteful people are. So they view the lead generation as the easy part and the follow-up as the heavy lifting and that's completely backwards. The lead generation is the heavy lifting because it takes your time, energy, a lot of times your money.
the back-end work follow-up, all you gotta do pick a phone up or send an email or a text. And if that's a heavy lifting, it's in between the ears and it's a fear.
Steve / Agency Outsight (20:20.11)
Yeah. And I think when something in mindset gets in the way and we finally power through that, whether it's procrastinate, procrastination or self doubt or whatever, and we finally get into it, it's like bang, bang, bang. And you crank out those things. It's like, wow, that felt great. And, and maybe I made a connection three times out of five times or whatever it is, but getting into the groove of it, like really helps overcome those mindset challenges. what are your thoughts on, I don't know if you're familiar with
Wanda Allen (20:44.89)
Yes, yeah.
Steve / Agency Outsight (20:50.094)
Blair ends and he's got this kind of famous kiss-off email That's not exactly what it's called. That's what I'm calling it. I'm botching what it's called, but it's Hey, you know, I reached out six times haven't heard from you. Should we count this as a no like after five or ten or twelve? What are your thoughts on a process like that or having an end point there?
Wanda Allen (21:12.568)
Yeah, I agree with that because you can't follow up with every single prospect you've ever met for the rest of your life. Okay, you do not have that time and energy. And so yeah, at some point you may say, you know what, I'm gonna let him go. I did my part and I'm moving on. But you don't do that after two. And that's what most people do. So yeah, there is does come a point where yeah, you do that. But if you've got a prospect that
Steve / Agency Outsight (21:21.262)
Mm-hmm.
Wanda Allen (21:43.258)
sporadically, yes I'm interested and then they ignore you and yes I'm interested and then they ignore you. Those I'm not as likely to let go of because there is interaction. It may not be every single time but the ones who have been dead silent, radio silent, every single time I followed up at some point, yeah, I'm gonna let them go because you you gotta move on. And then you feel good about it when you've done your part.
Steve / Agency Outsight (22:04.535)
Okay.
Wanda Allen (22:10.394)
and express interest in your pursuit of them and there's just nothing there, it's okay. You know what happens.
Steve / Agency Outsight (22:19.85)
And in this system process of doing follow-ups, how should the points of connection be varied? Should it always be email? Should I do email, then LinkedIn, then phone, then text, then skywriting? Like, what are your thoughts there?
Wanda Allen (22:34.102)
I think every single time it should be the phone first. Every single, and you know, unless a prospect says, don't ever call me, you know, always email me or message me on LinkedIn or whatever. I think it should always be the phone because that's where you're going to have the conversations. That's they're going to hear the sincerity and interest in your voice. You're going to really get a feel for where they are. So always phone first and then all those other means as secondary.
not trying.
Steve / Agency Outsight (23:04.206)
I'm gonna 100 % get off this podcast and make some phone calls today. Yeah, you've inspired me. Super helpful information from how to update a sales process, how to carry on and follow through with follow up and build it into people's process and different ways to switch it up and be persistent. I love tons of value there. Just to kind of wrap things up, I wanna ask a couple of random rapid fire questions. Not really related to follow up.
Wanda Allen (23:07.716)
Good, good, good.
Steve / Agency Outsight (23:34.05)
But the first is what's something that you are binging on these days, whether it's a book, a podcast, a show, a hobby, an activity.
Wanda Allen (23:42.958)
I'm a reader. I just, yeah, I'm a reader. I love it. And here's my problem. can't say I'm a systems freak. I read all the time, personal development, professional development, but I love novels. And that's like an escape. And I realized the only time I read a novel is when I'm on vacation, which is what, once a year? That's not good. So you know what I do? One book is professional or personal development. I finish it and then I read a novel.
Steve / Agency Outsight (23:44.449)
Okay.
Wanda Allen (24:13.24)
And then I go back and I has created such balance and even more binging. So I love it.
Steve / Agency Outsight (24:20.258)
That's a cool mindset trick that, all right, my brain thinks I'm only reading novels when I'm on vacation, but if I'm doing it on a Tuesday night after work and I'm reading a novel, my mind is putting myself at ease and I love that. I think that's a really cool trick. Yeah. What is something that's still on your bucket list that you need to accomplish or want to accomplish?
Wanda Allen (24:33.806)
Yeah, good.
Wanda Allen (24:42.292)
hmm. There's so many things. I would love to take like six months off and move to Mexico and learn the language. I, my father, I'm Hispanic, okay, I'm Mexican. I don't know the language at all. And you know, when I'm in Mexico, I always say, hello, good morning, because they'll, because the way, you know, my coloring, they'll look kind of,
Steve / Agency Outsight (24:56.238)
Hmm.
Wanda Allen (25:12.538)
I want to learn the language. My dad was fluent. It was his first language. But you know, way back then, bilingual, he just never used it around us. So that would be a dream for me to move down there, immerse myself in their, you know, in my Cabo, my husband, love Cabo, and just go for it and learn the language and not speak English and just get that done.
Steve / Agency Outsight (25:39.374)
I'm excited for you to do that. funny because I speak a very little bit of broken Spanish, enough to like get myself in trouble, but I hold a tan really well. So when I say, you know, you know, hello, how are you? Or, you know, thank you very much or place an order at a restaurant. People engage in me as if I am Hispanic or Latin or something and like come at me with full conversations. I'm like, sorry, that's just where it stops. So it's pretty funny how that happens.
Wanda Allen (25:48.346)
Wanda Allen (26:07.3)
Well, you know, I'll say, no habla espanol and they'll go, por que? You know, why? I don't know. I know, I know.
Steve / Agency Outsight (26:11.566)
laughs
Steve / Agency Outsight (26:16.364)
Yeah, no, I can't wait for that to happen. I think it's a fun language. think it's the best way to do it is immerse yourself and live in the space. And then finally, what is an invaluable piece of business advice that you ignored for too long and then finally embraced?
Wanda Allen (26:32.346)
To not be afraid of believing in what you do and being willing to charge for what you do. Okay, because that whole price thing and I've had coaches and you you stand loud and proud in what you do, who you are and the service that you provide.
and then you price accordingly. I've had so many coaches tell me that and I'm coming in, I'm finally coming into that. It's like, okay, you know, cause you got to feel good about what you're doing and what you provide. And then also we all need to be paid for what we do, right? And not be afraid of that. Money is such a crazy thing, especially when we're, you know, charging for our services. So that was like the best advice. It took me quite a while to get there. But
It comes with time and experience and all of that.
Steve / Agency Outsight (27:33.314)
love that and again just to touch on that I don't think it's a destination because while I can stand very confidently today tomorrow I'm like I don't know if I can charge this amount or confidently ask for this pricing whereas yesterday I demanded it and I felt good about it and so I think it is a Hill and Valley kind of thing but it's something I work through with so many of my clients of how do we raise our rates well you do it and you stand confidently like you said so yeah it's an ongoing process
Wanda Allen (27:58.616)
Yeah. Yeah, and there's a, when you start feeling disconnected to the price, that's the sign. It's because you want to feel good about it, right? And it's like, can't do this anymore. So yeah. Okay. Good. Yeah. I know that's the common problem or challenge, let's say.
Steve / Agency Outsight (28:13.675)
Awesome.
It is a common challenge and one that I think people work through on regular basis. I'm glad you brought it up. Wanda, thank you so much for joining me. Folks, check out Wanda's books and her website and it'll all be in the show notes. And I'm grateful for you spending time with us today.
Wanda Allen (28:32.26)
Great, thank you so much, it was fun.
Steve / Agency Outsight (28:35.074)
Thanks.