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Featuring: Jamie Brindle
In episode 118, I’m joined by Jamie Brindle—a freelancer, strategist, and creator who’s built a half-million-strong audience around helping creative solopreneurs build sustainable, scalable freelance businesses. In this conversation, Jamie breaks down what it means to be an “Entrelancer”—a hybrid of entrepreneur and freelancer—and why the traditional view of freelancing is overdue for a reboot.
We talk about why having an audience builds instant trust, how freelancers can evolve into business owners without employees, and the myths around websites and portfolios that keep too many creatives stuck in planning mode instead of taking action. Jamie also shares a powerful framework for moving strangers into long-term client relationships—and why every freelancer should be thinking like a strategist, not just a task-taker.
Whether you’re freelancing, running an agency, or somewhere in between, this one’s packed with fresh thinking.
Key Bytes
• Jamie shares the origin of the term “Entrelancer”—and how it reflects a more modern, business-minded freelancer.
• He explains how their TikTok content (originally not for clients) unexpectedly opened doors to Fortune 100 opportunities.
• We dig into the importance of digital products, productized services, and building systems to support time freedom.
• Jamie outlines the four stages of the customer journey: Stranger → Lead → Client → Client for Life.
• He gives a masterclass in how to manufacture delight, over-deliver, and secure repeat work.
• We challenge the sacred cows of freelancer websites and portfolios—and why Jamie believes they’re massive time-wasters.
• Sales anxiety? Jamie offers a grounded, simple mindset shift that removes pressure and focuses on being helpful.
• He explains how positioning yourself as a solution—not a task-taker—is the unlock to charging more and building authority.Chapters
00:00 Welcome and Intro to Jamie Brindle
01:00 The accidental power of TikTok and building trust
04:30 Redefining success as a freelancer
07:00 “Entrelancer” vs. freelancer: What’s the difference?
11:40 Scaling without employees: Productized and digital offers
13:00 Pivoting from video work to social media consulting
15:25 Lessons from shifting services and getting back in the field
19:30 Jamie’s four stages of the customer journey
24:00 Reframing sales: It’s just solving a problem
28:00 Positioning yourself as a strategic partner
34:00 Why portfolios and websites are the biggest time wasters
37:00 Final thoughts and closing
Jamie Brindle is a freelancer who gives advice to over half a million other creatives on social media about building a scalable and sustainable freelance business.
Contact Jamie on their website or @thejamiebrindle on all socials.
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Steve / Agency Outsight (00:01.378)
Welcome to Agency Bites, a podcast dedicated to helping creative entrepreneurs thrive. I'm Steve Guberman from Agency Outsite, where I coach agency owners to build the agency of their dreams. This week, my guest is Jamie Brindle. Jamie is a freelancer who advises over a half a million other creatives on social media about building a scalable and sustainable freelance business. It is awesome to have you here because I've seen your content for a long time. Most recently, I've seen some of your ads saying, I want to be on your podcast. here we are. So pretty sweet.
Your ad worked.
Jamie Brindle (00:31.064)
Hey, it's my pleasure to be here. If you can't tell already from social media, I love nerding out about this stuff. So any chance I get.
Steve / Agency Outsight (00:42.606)
For anybody who's listening or watching that doesn't know you, hasn't seen your content, what's your kind of backstory on now you're trying to educate more freelancers? What's the path that led you here?
Jamie Brindle (00:54.198)
Yeah, for sure. So, you know, for those that don't know me, I talk on the internet every day about how freelancers can be scaling their businesses, growing sustainable and successful freelance businesses, you know, by whatever definition of sustainable and successful they have, right? Because everybody's definition of those two words is different. But we started this journey. And when I say we, I'm talking about my wife, who's also my business partner and myself.
We started this journey in 2020 when we were looking to scale for new ways to scale our agency business, video production business. you know, we were kind of barking up the digital products tree and, you know, let's, hey, let's try and build an audience on social media. And we didn't know if that audience should be comprised of our clients, our B2B, you know, agency clients or what.
and it was right around 2020 when a bunch of people were losing their jobs and, know, we're, really concerned about what the future held and we thought we could be of, of some value to our fellow practitioners instead. So we, we, we went that route, you know, not, not knowing whether or not it would have any, any impact on our agency business, which spoil alert it did. but that's, that's how we got started.
Steve / Agency Outsight (02:15.01)
Yep.
So initially it was, I want to be helpful. Well, no, initially it was how do we grow our business? And then it was like, wow, people need help. You lean into the, need to be helpful to our community. And it kind of came back around and pushed you forward with the business, right?
Jamie Brindle (02:32.952)
Yeah, pretty much. mean, it was, you know, we were, we were assessing kind of what the byproducts of our day to day work that would be valuable first to potential customers. But, but then we realized, Hey, you know, we've been doing this for a minute. We've got some, you know, we, take a lot of insights for granted, you know, hard earned insights that you had to go out there and get beat up over before, know, before you clock them. Um, why don't we, you know, that's a byproduct. So why don't we share that?
And, and help folks. then lo and behold, I was probably six months into growing the audience, uh, where, you know, I got on a sales call with a major, you know, major top five brands in the world type company. And, uh, you know, the, VP of communications gets on the zoom and goes, Oh, Hey, you're the mustache guy on tick tock, you know? And it's not even that's, that wasn't even a, uh, an avatar that we thought we were making content for. Um, but, but.
Steve / Agency Outsight (03:22.744)
Ha
Jamie Brindle (03:30.968)
you know, it's, it, it, it happened on the next call and then maybe two calls after that. And, you know, you realize that, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's pretty helpful to have an audience in those conversations.
Steve / Agency Outsight (03:43.074)
Yeah, you've initially, you've built the trust from the door. They get on a call, they know you, they know your content, so they trust you and they probably like you because you're, you you come through in your videos as a very personable and fun and jovial, you know, freelancer. So yeah, you know, no like and trust is all right there from the beginning. I love that you def-
Jamie Brindle (03:59.552)
I think.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, does, you know, if, if you're, if, if you're talking to a lineup of providers and one of them has an audience of other providers, yeah. It's like, go to anybody other than the person that all these guys are taking their advice from, you know? So it's definitely a powerful position to start a conversation.
Steve / Agency Outsight (04:22.83)
They already, yeah, your peers trust you. Why wouldn't the potential client as well? Absolutely. Yeah. You talk about like, you know, defining success on, you know, as a freelancer on your own. When you guys kind of started out on this journey, how was your vision, you and your wife's vision of success different than it is now?
Jamie Brindle (04:28.086)
Yeah, exactly.
Jamie Brindle (04:46.328)
Oh, that's a fascinating question. mean, so I started freelancing when I was 17 and Courtney joined like six years ago, started, started, we started working together. So I would say, you know, there have been a couple of iterations of, of, of that, you know, a couple of different versions. So obviously when I was 17, my, my vision of success was that of a 17 year old boys, right? So there are the things that
Steve / Agency Outsight (05:05.07)
Mm-hmm.
Jamie Brindle (05:13.676)
You know, and I guess some, some grown men still think that way, but, you know, my, I was in it for the, for the cars and the money. And now it's more, you know, it's, forget who said it, but somebody said, you know, success or freedom is, is, is waking up in the morning and doing whatever the hell you want to do. Right. And I think that's more so, you know, what freelancing means to me now is, you know, I can wake up and, and set the pace.
you know, I can chase down the ideas that I want to chase down. I don't have to, you know, ask permission. you know, we've got a, a pretty healthy, you know, savings at this point, we've got a pretty healthy client list at this point. So it really is more just, you know, fun and exploratory. And I call that success for sure. but, know, success, you know, for, for the future for me is to just.
You know, see how far we can take this. It's, you know, it's like fashion. It's never finished. Right. How, how, how many more people can we help? How much more helpful can we be? you know, the, the, the future of the American workforce, you know, by 2027, in America alone, it's going to be a majority freelancers. so that's where this is headed, right? This is where we're kind of, we're, taking the, the, the workforce by storm.
And I want to lead that charge and I want to help people, you know, kind of take command of their destinies as best as possible on a massive, massive scale. So, you know, that's it.
Steve / Agency Outsight (06:48.3)
Yeah, that's it. That's all. Yeah. So from freelancing versus like a business and there are two distinct differences. Do you have any vision or inkling to take what you do and turn it into more of a business structure than that other than just you and your wife?
Jamie Brindle (07:04.952)
Yeah, I mean, it is the terms are conflating and that's something I'm finding myself talking about more and more recently. Like we had a freelancer meet up here in LA last week and I gave a little talk on, this because it's, I, you know, I was like, we're not what we've worked 15 years ago. 15 years ago, the word freelancer meant employee for rent, you know, an hourly person that came and sat at a desk when you needed to, you know, an extra set of hands on a project. And now freelancer means.
Steve / Agency Outsight (07:30.03)
Mm-hmm.
Jamie Brindle (07:32.694)
you know, specialist, means somebody who comes in and solves a major problem for you. Right. and, and more so than ever freelancers, you know, our business owners, they're, they're, they're thinking about their businesses more than they're thinking about their clients businesses, which is very, very important distinction to make. Right. And so we came up with a new term. We're calling them entrelancers because they're building an entrepreneurial effort with the tenants of freelancing.
Steve / Agency Outsight (07:57.601)
Okay.
Jamie Brindle (08:02.21)
know, to, to, to, to build something for themselves, to build an asset for themselves. and so like Courtney and I, like we've got our merry band of freelancers, you know, that we, that we've worked with over the years. you know, but they're not employees, right? It's, it's folks that we bring in when, when, you know, we need to flex when we need to get big and, know, and then they go off and do their own thing when we need to get small. And I think that's really the future of, of, of work.
I, the more agencies we talk to, they're, you know, they're headed to that model if they're not there already. and, and even so like corporations, like, like our enterprise clients are thinking this way, right? Like, wait, I don't, I don't know when it emerged, but like, when was the, you know, when was the first time you saw fractional CMO or fractional CFO, you know, like it's, I think we're, we're headed in a direction where, you know,
there will be a group of LLCs banded together toward a common effort and we'll call that a company. We'll call that a corporation, you know? And it's very exciting to me.
Steve / Agency Outsight (09:10.094)
Yeah, I mean, for me, I look at it as like a single person is a solprenor. love your phrase of a freelance entrepreneur. What was the word? Entrelancer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. But once you turn it into this model of I'm going out and hunting and I'm bringing in freelancers to expand and contract, I mean, my agency did that, you know, and I've been out of that agency for 10 years now. So.
Jamie Brindle (09:19.358)
Entrelancer.
Steve / Agency Outsight (09:35.37)
it, it, it's, it has become a far more popular model. I don't think I heard of a fractional anything before COVID that became like the, the ubiquitous term of I'm in transition. No, I'm a fractional something, you know? but so, so yeah, I guess they are conflated, but also there's a distinction between freelancers. I'm a hired gun and I'm going to go work for you today and Susan tomorrow and know, Jody the next day and Walmart the day after whatever.
Jamie Brindle (09:42.327)
Yeah.
Jamie Brindle (09:48.277)
Exactly.
Steve / Agency Outsight (10:04.524)
I'm my own business and I'm bringing people in and growing it. One of the key differences is something of value. And so as a freelancer, take me out of it. If I go sit on the beach, the business typically isn't going to be making money. If I build a business and I've got systems and people and all these things in place, I can go sit on the beach and we're still making money and growing without me. So to me, big distinction versus...
freelancer and your focus is I want to help these like individuals who maybe they're banding together or working on their own build structure, build security, build their version of success.
Jamie Brindle (10:43.862)
Yeah. And yeah. And I mean, that's, that's what you're describing is, you know, what I would call the, the, the scalable nature of, this effort, right? Because it is, there's something to be considered with freelancers is, know, if you only make money when you're sitting down at a desk, you don't own a business, you own a job, right? And you're going to have to do that forever if you want to make money. and so that is something that we talk a lot about. That's this, this Entrelancer effort. It's, you know, we're it's what's the scalable version of this.
How do you know if you need to go on a vacation or you don't feel like working this week that you're still going to make, you know, it's still going to make the revenue that you need to make for your goals that year. Um, so it is, it's, building that effort out and you know, that, that could be by diversifying the revenue pie with some productized services or some digital products, but it could also mean, you know, that, that Mary band of subcontractors that, know, that, that know what to do when, a certain project comes in.
Steve / Agency Outsight (11:42.06)
Yeah. Are you, and you guys have shifted into kind of digital products, courses, things like that to diversify your income as well.
Jamie Brindle (11:50.496)
Yeah, for sure. mean, that was, that was the really the question that that's, you know, started at all was we were, we were at a, the point where we had scaled with price. had started charging significantly more than, than we had. We had scaled, you know, with some contractors, meaning that, you know, we could bring in eight times the work because we had the team now, you know, we had the depth chart. you know, if,
So contractor A was unavailable, we'd go to B, then we'd go to C, you know, that way we knew we were always covered. And then we're like, okay, what's left? And it's, you the other two plays left on the table are productized services, which is where, you you build out a version of your offer that, you know, costs you the same in time and money every time it's delivered. No negotiation.
And digital products, which is more traditional, something off the shelf. So that was what started our social media conversation was, okay, who are we going to sell these digital products to? So yeah, it's all about scaling out or diversifying that revenue to make it to the point where you're not so reliant on one offer.
Steve / Agency Outsight (13:07.276)
Yeah. What's your kind of breakdown of your day look like? Are you still, you know, on the computer designing, doing video work or like what's the mix between video and social and things like that?
Jamie Brindle (13:18.262)
Yeah, it's interesting. It varies, but I try to do a 50-50 split between client work and business work. Business work, working on the business for me would be social media efforts, networking efforts, nurturing leads one-to-one, nurturing leads one-to-many via newsletter, what have you. And then client work.
Steve / Agency Outsight (13:28.622)
Mm-hmm.
Jamie Brindle (13:45.75)
I mean, it's pretty self-explanatory. We've recently pivoted from video more to social media consulting. Just because those two, I wanted those two efforts to be closer to one another because the issue was when I was over here working on client work for social media, it did nothing for my video efforts. And when I was over here working on client work for video, it did nothing for my social media efforts.
So, you know, if our agency becomes a social media strategy agency, then these two efforts are a lot closer and, you know, can help one another out a little bit.
Steve / Agency Outsight (14:25.142)
Interesting okay, it's a cool shift. Do you enjoy that kind of work as much and are you able to find them like the right kind of clients and make it as profitable as just doing solo video work was? Yeah
Jamie Brindle (14:35.48)
Definitely. mean, so far we've it's, it's a new venture for us. It's been, that's been kind of fun, you know, reporting to the audience how, what this is like, you know, it's cause it's, you know, I find myself here 17 years later, uh, you know, back at the beginning and, and, know, obviously, you know, I've got a client list from the video stuff that I get to now pitch on this stuff. So I've got, you know, got the upper hand. I've got, you know, something.
Steve / Agency Outsight (15:00.77)
Yep.
Jamie Brindle (15:03.868)
that's pretty useful to be starting an endeavor with, but yeah, I'm really enjoying it. And it's a fun venture for me. And we've been able to so far do pretty good in terms of pricing these things out and working with some pretty fun clients.
Steve / Agency Outsight (15:25.068)
Nice. So you're learning in real time and you're reporting in real time. What are some of the lessons that you're learning making this pivot and switching into like this new service offering?
Jamie Brindle (15:34.208)
Yeah, it's interesting. would say it's, first off, we're trying to figure out the best way to tell this story on social. that's, you you're catching me at a time when I'm, that's the biggest problem I'm trying to solve is how do I actually convey this? Cause you know, there's like lots of NDAs being signed and it's like, can't like, you know, a screenshot and email and post it to stories and stuff like that. But I do want to, I want to figure that part out. But yeah, I mean, the stuff I'm learning,
it's not so much learning as it's confirming. Like it's, there's lots of, there was a period, like a two year period where I found myself doing a lot more, social media education than client work. We, we, went to almost an entirely subcontracted model at our agency because the social media stuff was such a haul. Right. And, there's an element there where I'm like, like,
I feel like I'm losing my edge. I feel like I'm not, you know, boots on the ground getting the Intel, you know, and am I, is the stuff I'm talking about still relevant? Is it still, you know, and then, it's just like, hadn't been on Upwork in two years, you know, like our year and a half. And, and so I, I log on, just to test out a new component of our new offer, just to see if I can't find someone to pay me to test it out. And,
Steve / Agency Outsight (16:57.612)
Mm-hmm.
Jamie Brindle (16:58.178)
You know, and I'm like, okay, there's these four new features on Upwork here. Like, let me, let me play with these real quick, you know, and, make these work for me. And, you know, so it's, it's, and, and it's, you, I apply the stuff that I talk about all the time and lo and behold, we've got a massive client from Upwork, know, after two pitches. So it's, it's been validating in, in, that way, you know, it's, or, it's been reaffirming in, you know, in, in a, in a lot of ways. So I've been enjoying that.
Steve / Agency Outsight (17:28.814)
Very cool that you're able to get that real-time validation of here's the idea, here's where we're moving, and by the way, it's working because people are hiring for us in these different platforms. And even with Upwork changing how they are doing their pay-to-play stuff, you're still able to find some of the work from there. So that's very cool.
Jamie Brindle (17:46.262)
Yeah. I mean, the Upwork thing, just a quick note on the pay to play stuff. Like I was having this conversation at the meetup with somebody and they were kind of poo pooing it. And I was like, this is actually really good for freelancers because I think the problem, and I don't have, I don't have the ended up work. I haven't talked to anybody over there about this. This is pure conjecture, but I think that the problem that they were running into as a platform was, you know, that everybody was applying to everything.
And so that was, kind of lent to the race to the bottom criticism that you often hear about that platform and any of the platforms, frankly. And it also led to, you know, the client side being a very inefficient, very, I don't know, just like labor intensive process where if you posted a job, you knew you'd have to sift through 200
50 pitches and like you just wear out and you go with one of the first 10 you read, you know? So it's not great for anybody. And I think that that curates that effort where it's like, okay, if I have to pay to do this, then I'm going to pick my battles. And, you know, so that's great for the freelancer because it's less competition and you're in a lineup of other people that are actually doing the thing. And it's great for the clients because there's less to pick from. So.
Steve / Agency Outsight (19:06.636)
Yeah, it's a good point from the client side because I've posted things on there. I'm just daunted by the it's almost spam of the amount of responses you get. So yeah, you mentioned kind of in your day to day the 50 50 working in verse working on the business and a component of it is your lead nurturing and working through the customer journey and talk through some of the lessons that you talk about in your social media about like nurturing leads from total strangers to lead to a customer and what that customer
Jamie Brindle (19:12.492)
Yeah. Yeah.
Steve / Agency Outsight (19:36.268)
life cycle looks like.
Jamie Brindle (19:37.964)
Yeah, I mean, that's how we organize all of our business development efforts, right? It's the customer journey. It's the four stages of the customer journey, a stranger, a lead, a client, and a client for life, right? It's any effort, you know, that we take on behalf of our business informs one of those three transitions, transitioning somebody from a stranger to a lead, from a lead to a client, and from a client to a lifetime client, right?
So stranger to lead, I signify that that transformation has occurred when I acquire somebody's email. So on the one to many scale, that's social media, right? If I'm putting something out that's valuable enough for somebody to give me their email address, to subscribe to my newsletter or something like that, I'm doing my job over there on social media.
And then on one to one, it's networking where it's like, Hey, I've got this offer, you know, is, is this something that you'd be interested in or somebody that you know, would be interested in. they go, yeah, shoot me an email here or, know, you should, you should talk to my boss about this or you should talk to Mike about this, you know, like, I think that's, so that's, that's what it looks like on the one-to-one side. And that's probably more relatable to somebody who doesn't have a huge social media following. Right. And frankly, that's more effective.
You know, I think the network is the freelancer's biggest ally for sure. And then in terms of converting someone from a lead into a customer, that's that pesky little thing that we call sales, right? Where it's, it's, hey, it's, it's matchmaking. You're matching an offer to a need. So once you've, you know, obtained this person's email and you're in conversation with them, you identify what like major issue, what serious problem are they trying to solve for your business?
And how can you help them solve it, you know, with your service or a tangential service that you've built out an offer with a fellow freelancer for, you know? Don't try to square peg round hole it. Like literally start with their problem and work the solution from there, right? And ideally that's something that you've, you know, a solution that you've got built out already, you know, but it could be something bespoke. And then from a client to a lifetime client,
Jamie Brindle (21:57.9)
That's just a process of delighting throughout the process of that first project, right? It's just like manufacturing delight. I think a lot of freelancers miss this part. This part's a little more nuanced where it's like, okay, customer service, what does that look like? Because it's not just being good at what you do, right? Anybody can be good at what they do. How do you design a journey that like manufacturers,
smile on their face for it's how do you in the first 24 hours surprise and delight them if you know if you if you on the sales call are you on the first call say you know okay we'll get you you know a Lookbook on Friday or something and it's Monday, you know, or we'll get you, know a first First draft of this on Monday XYZ you say that knowing they're gonna have it in their inbox on Tuesday, right?
because when that happens, they, they get to go to their superiors and say, look at what a good, look at what a good, a good buy I just made, you know, this, person's on top of it. Right. and, then it happens again at the end of the project, right? Where this whole time we've talked about, this is your deliverable and you give them exactly what you said, and then you plus it. say, you know what? I figured we.
Steve / Agency Outsight (23:04.236)
Yep.
Jamie Brindle (23:18.7)
We'd add these two things to just cause I really care about this relationship and I want to see you guys knocked out of the park. So, you know, in the background, I went ahead and had my team throw these two together. Now you've already budgeted for that. That was, that was baked into the, what they've paid you already. Right. But, but it's, you've over-delivered at the end, and you know, unbeknownst to them or they weren't, they weren't suspecting it. So that's how you manufacture delight. and then, you know, you, you.
Walk them from the first project to the next project before the first project is over. Right? That's another way to maximize your chances of that transformation happening from client to lifetime client. it's, okay, two weeks before delivery, you fire off an email that's, hey, I know we're getting close on this, so this is a perfect time to talk about this. Usually once somebody has this asset, whatever you're developing,
the next thing they need is this. So I want to you optimized for that too. You got 15 minutes to talk, you know? Let's go ahead and get that one started. So that would be the three transformations that we optimize for.
Steve / Agency Outsight (24:27.182)
I love that and yeah, kind of leading them into what that next engagement is, not just saying, hey, here's what you paid me for, see you later, maybe we'll see you again somewhere in the saloon or whatever. yeah, leading them into that next conversation. Talk quick about kind of what you think the keys are to kind of getting that job from like a communication standpoint, the pesky word of sales that you mentioned.
Jamie Brindle (24:38.338)
Thank
Jamie Brindle (24:50.456)
What do you mean? Like what's the best way to do it communication wise?
Steve / Agency Outsight (24:54.85)
Yeah, I don't know. What have you found or something like, for me it's, you know, the five whys or being curious and asking the right questions. And you talk a lot about like the, you know, speaking the language of the client and what their ROI is and what they need to get out of it. Some of tricks or tips that you can share that works for you.
Jamie Brindle (25:13.782)
Yeah, I mean, think a lot of freelancers that I've had the good fortune to talk to many over the years, there's a lot of consternation over the sales conversation, right? There's a lot of anxiety there for freelancers. And I'm here to tell you, there's nothing to be anxious about there. You're having a conversation with another human being, right?
Steve / Agency Outsight (25:37.784)
Yep.
Jamie Brindle (25:38.55)
the, let me give you this, let me, you know, take this off your shoulders. There is no magic combination of words that you're going to say. That's going to convince somebody to work with you. Right. It has nothing to do with, I think there's plenty of kind of the sales gurus out there that are like, you're to ask this question. And when they say this, then you say this. And if they come at you with this, you negotiate. it's, does not look like that in reality at all. Right. All it is, is it's a conversation between two human beings.
Steve / Agency Outsight (26:04.173)
Yep.
Jamie Brindle (26:08.138)
about solving a problem, right? So I, going into these calls, these discussions, all I care about is paying attention to what their problem is and being as valuable as I can in that hour or 30 minutes or however long the call is, right? Those are the two things that I write at the top of the notes every time is listen and be as impactful as you can in this hour. So that's, mean, I don't want to overcomplicate it beyond that, right?
You want to make it about solving the problem? So the first thing that that requires you to do is identify get on the same sheet of music about the problem, right? So I always you know start the conversation with all right. What are we up against here? You know, how are we measuring success for this project and that question alone? it's it's illuminating to to more clients than you would think because a lot of the times They actually don't have an answer to that question
A satisfying answer at least, right? So if somebody's, you know, if they need a website done, you know, and then a web developer says, how are we measuring success for this? And they go, like, if we have a website, we, that's success. And I would encourage that developer to say, no, no, give me something I can measure here. Like, what are you, what is the actual goal here? Like, what are, what are we measuring for your business to know that, you know, we've knocked it out of the park.
Steve / Agency Outsight (27:03.47)
Mm-hmm.
Jamie Brindle (27:32.96)
Right. And you spend the first 20 minutes sometimes just talking about that where it's well, okay. If, know, if we can increase conversions or from X to Y, that'd be a pretty good year for us. Or if we can do, you know, okay, cool. Let's talk about that. Right. A website is almost ancillary to that conversation. Right. I, yeah, I'll build you a website, but we're talking about conversions here. So like that's, you know, that's the conversation I want to have. Right.
So make it about solving their problem and really demonstrating what you're like as a strategic partner.
Steve / Agency Outsight (28:06.168)
So strategic partners, the thing that was right on my mind is how freelancers are often seen as task takers. And I can just get a freelancer to do it because it's lower budget or whatever. But you mentioned strategic partner and I'm so glad that you did because there's a distinct difference between how somebody can position themselves as a freelancer versus, you know, being an actual strategic partner, charging more, not being a task taker and
you know, your experience and what you guys have been able to do, how have you kind of moved upstream in that sense as well?
Jamie Brindle (28:41.59)
Have we moved off of what?
Steve / Agency Outsight (28:43.854)
Like the mindset of a freelancer from most brands is they're a task taker and I'm going to get them, I'm going to get them more inexpensively because they're just a freelancer. It's just somebody in their apartment or whatever. Versus like you mentioned, a strategic partner, somebody that's advising me. So I mean, it's going to really get to the true nature of my challenge and provide the right solution versus do exactly what I want them to do. You know, that's an upstream version of an, you know, of a freelancer.
Jamie Brindle (28:49.709)
Yeah.
Jamie Brindle (29:00.631)
Got it.
Jamie Brindle (29:10.912)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that battle is one, you know, before it's begun, it's, it's, it's one of the offer stage. It's how you talk about yourself. It's how you position yourself, you know? So it's like, you know, it's, it's not, you're, you're not a gun for hire. You are this, this result in a box, you know? It says, talk about that. think too many freelancers are like, I'm a photographer. Do you need a photographer? You know, like that's, and that's the incorrect way that's encouraging that type of.
engagement between client and freelancer. The real way that you talk about yourself is, know, I'm, I am an increased reach on your organic, you know, socials that looks a lot like a photograph. But what I really am is increased reach, right? Or I am, you know, stronger conversions on an ad that looks a lot like words.
Steve / Agency Outsight (29:57.491)
haha
Jamie Brindle (30:06.988)
But really what it is, is it's more, I am more money in your pocket, you know? And so you have to, you have to communicate that way. It's, not about what you do. It's about what they get from what you do.
Steve / Agency Outsight (30:17.568)
Yeah, I love that great framing awesome. Listen, I'm gonna throw a couple random rapid fires at you to wrap things up Folks check out Jamie Brindle on all the socials at Jamie Brindle. He's got boot camps and tik toks and videos and Really well-built videos that I've been inspired by but check him out. He's got some great content for everybody First is what's the weirdest way a client has ever found you?
Jamie Brindle (30:30.753)
Thank
Jamie Brindle (30:40.542)
interesting. Weirdest way a client has ever found us. hmm.
Jamie Brindle (30:51.564)
I really want to give you a good answer to this one. thinking I've got like, like the probably like the normal way for me back in the day was I would attend, you know, networking events, but I would be there for, I would be there for to film it right for, for work. And so I caught onto the fact, you know, after the first one or two that if I, you know, even if I didn't really need to be, kitted out at the moment, if I walked the floor,
with a steady cam vest on and a boom mic over one hand and the light over the other hand, I'm going to get a lot more people stopping me to talk to me. So that might be one, whereas I kind of manufactured those moments a little bit in the early days, you know, and got my fair share of business cards that way. Yeah, I mean, it's recently, you know, it's funny that because you would think that this makes sense, but it was weird to me because we didn't build out the social media.
to acquire clients. like that little anecdote I told you earlier where, you know, I get on the call with a potential customer and they recognize me from TikTok. You know, I thinking, that's interesting because I wasn't even talking to you. I don't know why you're watching videos about a freelancer because you're you know, VP of communications at this in-house agency at this Fortune 100 company. You know, so stuff like that, I would say, but I have any like really weird stories. I wish I did.
Steve / Agency Outsight (31:58.958)
Mm-hmm.
Steve / Agency Outsight (32:17.41)
Yeah, no, I get it. Even being kitted out of networking thing is just kind good free advertising. dig that. Yeah. If you could have dinner with any two people dead or alive, who would they be?
Jamie Brindle (32:23.265)
Yeah.
Jamie Brindle (32:29.106)
jeez.
want to do one dead and one alive just to even out. Or maybe I could do two dead. I would say...
Charlie Chaplin, I'd be interested in talking to him just because he built such an incredible business out of his, out of, you know, what could have just been an acting gig, you know, he ended up revolutionizing the way Hollywood does business. What would be in a live? Hmm.
Jamie Brindle (33:15.234)
Gosh, I really, I think probably Dwayne The Rock Johnson, because why not?
Right? That guy's always on the move. He's always doing 18 different things. I'd love to figure out what the structure of his organization is and how he crams that much into a day. Yeah, I think that... Yeah, let's do that. And then we'll do a whole other episode of this question because that was painful for me because there are so many people, both dead and alive, that I want to have a conversation with. So, you know...
Steve / Agency Outsight (33:24.814)
video.
Steve / Agency Outsight (33:36.578)
Yeah, I'm gonna tag him. We'll see if we can get his attention for you.
Yeah.
Jamie Brindle (33:52.994)
caveat is like, you know, those are two of, you know, 6,000 that I would answer that question with.
Steve / Agency Outsight (33:59.232)
The on the spot aspect of it makes it that much more impossible to answer. So I fully understand and have some empathy there. Finally, what's one thing that you think agencies and freelancers waste too much time on?
Jamie Brindle (34:12.306)
man, I'm kind of at war with this with freelancers right now. So I'll go with this answer is their website and portfolio. I think that, just because I've had so many conversations with freelancers over the years where they go, hey man.
Steve / Agency Outsight (34:26.775)
Interesting.
Jamie Brindle (34:37.014)
I love what you're saying. I'm so excited to get started. You know, I can't wait to start freelancing and I say, why haven't you started? go, well, I just got to my website and portfolio put together. And I go, great, I can help you out right now. Doesn't matter. Get started today and let me know how it goes by the end of the week. I survived the entirety of my career without a website.
If somebody, know, if I had a lead that I was interested in converting, I'd send them a link to a Google Drive folder with a few examples of what I want them to take a look at before we chat. You know, and I'd much prefer that to sending them a link to a website and then leaving them to their own devices to peruse my work and determine what, you know, what is important and what is not, because they're not the expert. They're talking to me.
for, for the, they don't know what, what to look at, right? They don't know what they're trying to suss out. you know, so all that can be done in an email. there's, there's no need for it. And the same with the portfolio, same story, right? Is rather than send them to, you know, one master reel. I mean, I was in the video world, so that's, that was our portfolio, right? Rather than send them to a reel to watch.
you know, three minutes of everything that we've ever done in our business. I'd rather cut something real quick together for him with four examples that informed the discussion that we're about to have. Right. And say, here's, here's what think we should take a look at, you know, together on, you know, tomorrow. And then let, you know, and walk them through it and tell them, this is why I put you in this thing. Look at this real quick. Cause this is what I'm thinking for you, you know, and just have it more bespoke that way. So I think that I mean,
Steve / Agency Outsight (36:20.782)
Mm-hmm.
Jamie Brindle (36:26.124)
Thousands of years of freelancers lives have been wasted on optimizing their portfolio and their website. know, hopefully with this, with this podcast episode, we can put an end to this nonsense.
Steve / Agency Outsight (36:37.356)
Yeah, stop him and hawing about if your portfolio and case studies and all that nonsense is accurate because it's probably not and just launch it anyway. Yeah.
Jamie Brindle (36:44.982)
Yeah. And case studies, another great one, right? Cause that's, that can be handled with the, in the body of an email. Like you don't, like rather than give them the homework of reading a 17 page PDF about here's what their problem was. Here's the challenges that were brought up by this problem. Here's the, like just, you can do that in three sentences. Like, you know, Hey Steve, I wanted to send you this thing that I just did for a client. You know, they were solving for this. Here's the result. said it immediately made me think of you. got 15 minutes. That's all you need to do.
You know, it doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.
Steve / Agency Outsight (37:19.554)
Keep it simple, I love it. Stop wasting time on portfolios. Massive time suck. Yeah, launch whatever you're looking at, launch and stop delaying. Good stuff. Jamie, I appreciate your time. Thanks for being here with us today and this is an awesome, awesome conversation. So thank you.
Jamie Brindle (37:27.308)
Yeah.
Jamie Brindle (37:36.308)
It's my pleasure. I'm happy to be here. appreciate all the ground we've covered here today. We've got some good topics.
Steve / Agency Outsight (37:44.664)
Good stuff, man. I hope everybody gets a lot out of it. So thank you.