Listen & subscribe on the platform of your choice
Featuring: Logan Lyles, DemandShift
In episode 128, I sit down with Logan Lyles, founder of DemandShift and longtime B2B sales and marketing pro. Logan’s career has spanned brand side, agency side, and now his own consultancy—giving him a unique perspective on what it really takes to grow pipeline.
We unpack his journey from scaling Sweet Fish Media to Inc. 5000 status, building the Agency Life series at Teamwork, and leading growth at Business Builders. Most importantly, Logan shares how he turned disappointing webinar results into a repeatable framework that consistently converts registrations into booked sales calls.
If you’ve ever run a webinar that felt like a win… until the dreaded “conversion cliff,” this episode gives you the practical, step-by-step fixes to turn those views into revenue.
Key Bytes
• Logan explains how most agencies fall into the “conversion cliff” trap—lots of registrants, little pipeline—and the two-part fix that changed everything.
• He shares the importance of packaging your expertise into a clear framework that creates a natural next step.
• We break down his two-step registration process that boosted webinar conversions by 5–10x.
• We compare free vs. paid events, what impacts show-up rates, and which strategy works best for agencies.|
• We talk about how webinars double as content engines for thought leadership and trust building.
• Logan shares why solopreneurs and 20-person agencies alike can adapt this strategy with the right tech stack.
• He opens up about lessons learned in sales—why not every “yes” is worth chasing.Chapters
00:02 Intro to Logan Lyles and Demand Shift
01:14 Logan’s meandering career path from journalism to sales to agency life
03:09 Lessons from scaling Sweet Fish Media and leading growth at Business Builders
06:44 Why referrals aren’t enough for agencies anymore
07:28 The “conversion cliff” of webinars and how Logan fixed it
09:48 The two-step registration process that boosted conversions 5–10x
12:59 Free vs. paid webinars: show rates, signups, and strategy
15:57 Webinars as thought-leadership engines and content machines
19:11 Blending demand gen with brand building for faster sales cycles
23:02 Rethinking webinars: live podcasts, polls, and engagement tactics
27:08 Sales lessons: why not every yes is worth chasing
27:50 Wrap-up and where to find Logan (demandshift.co)
Logan Lyles has spent 17 years in B2B sales & marketing, drawing on his journalism background & working both agency- and brand-side in various roles. He has helped multiple agencies scale, including helping lead Sweet Fish Media onto the Inc 5,000 List 2 years in a row & increasing Business Builders monthly email list growth by 580% in 2024.
Logan is the founder of DemandShift, a webinar-as-a-service agency, the co-host of the weekly podcast: The Marketing Max Show & a LinkedIn Top Voice.
-
Steve / Agency Outsight (00:02.029)
Welcome back to Agency Bites. I'm your host, Steve Guberman from Agency Outsite, where I coach agency owners to build the business of their dreams. This week I'm joined by Logan Lyles, a long time B2B sales and marketing pro who's helped agencies grow from all angles, brand side, agency side, and now through his own company, Demand Shift. He's helped lead Sweet Fish Media to the Inc 5000 list, grew business builders email list by over 500 % in 2024, somehow still finds time to co-host the Marketing Max show.
And he's LinkedIn top voice too, which is a big badge of honor on LinkedIn. Logan, great to have you.
Logan Lyles (00:38.899)
Yeah. When I got that invite to the LinkedIn top voices program, I was like, do they have the right guy? Like it totally got me by surprise. appreciate the intro and thanks for having me, Steve.
Steve / Agency Outsight (00:47.872)
Yeah, glad to have you, man. Yeah, that's a pretty sweet badge of honor. I didn't know if that was a pay to play thing with LinkedIn or how they do that, but apparently you've got a voice.
Logan Lyles (00:55.281)
At least with at least with me, was, it was not, I was like, do y'all know there are, you know, people out there that are, you know, cooler than me, but thankfully they weren't on their radar. So.
Steve / Agency Outsight (01:06.744)
So demand shift, talk about that, talk about your kind of journey to getting here, your first time out on your own for some time now, what's going on there?
Logan Lyles (01:11.614)
Yeah.
Logan Lyles (01:14.909)
Yeah, like you said, in the open, I've kind of lived all sides of agency life. And this is my first time as a solopreneur agency founder myself. I'm just a few weeks in. And my journey is kind of meandering. The first 10 years of my career, after getting a journalism degree, I promptly got into local technology sales, which makes sense. But things were a little wild in 2008 for those of us that remember that time around the Great Recession. So I spent about 10 years doing that.
Steve / Agency Outsight (01:40.494)
Mm.
Logan Lyles (01:44.177)
And then 2018, I joined a podcast production agency, Sweetfish that you mentioned spent four years on the leadership team there. And that was kind of my first experience with a bowl of being part of an agency. and two being part of kind of an early stage startup, cause I joined as full-timer number four. By the time I left, we had scaled considerably over those four years. and then I went in-house, at a software company that a lot of agencies probably know of teamwork.com.
in the project management space. And I got to run the agency life series, which was both monthly webinars and a weekly podcast. And when I went back agency side in 2024, I was director of growth at business builders. And I kind of thought, hey, it's blank slate. I get to take over sales. Like what do I want our go-to-market engine to be? Obviously I've got a lot of experience doing podcasting webinars, those sorts of things.
There were a few other factors. started running webinars there. The first three months, we did several webinars. saw a lot of engagement, a lot of registration, and we hit what I called the conversion cliff where we had a lot of engagement, a lot of people signing up, but it wasn't turning into sales calls. And I was basically sales and marketing team of one, right? I'm directing what's our go-to-market on the marketing side. And I'm also the one selling.
Steve / Agency Outsight (03:04.247)
Mm-hmm.
Logan Lyles (03:09.247)
to new clients that come in the door and book calls. And so I had a vested interest in both sides of the fence when it comes to sales marketing, which it's usually blended in most agencies. I made a few tweaks, both on the promotion side and on the conversion side that that conversion cliff where I was converting about one to 2 % of everybody who signed up for a webinar into a sales call, let alone opportunity and revenue, right?
Increase that to as high as 10%. So I was like, wow, that's a five to 10 X. There's something here. And so just a few weeks ago, as I launched demand shift, took to market what I call the webinar fast track framework that is been all of my testing over the two years of running podcasts and webinar at teamwork, the nine months at business builders and basically offering a plug and play done for you service to replicate.
that same sort of increase of running webinars as an ongoing series that actually turn into book sales calls turn into a lot more. Cause as you well know, as an experienced podcast host, when you have an ongoing video series, there's not just the direct audience of the long form content. There's lots that you can do with it too.
Steve / Agency Outsight (04:23.79)
So back up and take apart kind of the process of brand builders. You guys, you came up with a strategy of we're gonna launch webinars and podcasts also or just webinar?
Logan Lyles (04:31.017)
Mm-hmm.
It was going to be both, but really we kind of just focused on webinars for about nine months. Yeah.
Steve / Agency Outsight (04:39.788)
Okay. So webinars with the intent of we want to get people in the funnels. This is unaware audiences. We're going to use it for marketing purposes. the audience was, was agency owners to get them into the brand builders mastermind group, right?
Logan Lyles (04:56.797)
Actually, it was a little bit separate. So these were potential clients of business builders. we were business builders does a lot of consulting around the story brand framework. A lot of clients come in looking for a new website and then there are full service agencies. So looking for help with LinkedIn, meta ads, video content, that sort of stuff. And so basically what I was trying to do was create content to get in front of in-house marketers that were
Steve / Agency Outsight (05:01.324)
Got you, okay.
Logan Lyles (05:25.823)
or business owners that were the potential clients for business builders. And essentially we had a four to $8,000 workshop that we would sell called the marketing blueprint. And so I was trying to get in front of that cold audience and get them booked on a cause where we could talk about that initial consulting package that then led to more project and retainer.
Steve / Agency Outsight (05:46.892)
And these are top tier clients. So it's not a mom and pop roofer with a van spending 48 grand. That's not your audience. Your audience is top tier Fortune 500s and up or something along those lines of trying to attract marketing managers, CMOs, et cetera, into this program.
Logan Lyles (05:49.236)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Logan Lyles (06:04.159)
Yeah, fair amount of, I'd say, lots of mid-market companies. We had done a lot in SMB. I was trying to help us move up market a little bit and get more software companies, more SaaS brands, more mid-market companies and up where we had seen some good success, but we weren't necessarily in front of a lot of those clients. Because as with a lot of agencies, it's no knock on anyone. But the number one.
new lead sources, typically referrals, word of mouth, which can be good, but it's not always sustainable. I'm sure you've talked about, you know, on the show, lots of reasons why, you know, that can be, that can be shaky foundation. Yeah.
Steve / Agency Outsight (06:44.81)
Ad nauseum, yes. So if you were to look at the program that you built from the outside, take your name off of it, take your hat off of it and look at it, you know, just more objectively and think overall, this is a good strategy. Businesses should be doing thought leadership in the form of a webinar to give away their expertise, show how smart they are, tease what they can deliver from a service standpoint.
Logan Lyles (06:52.841)
Mm-hmm.
Steve / Agency Outsight (07:14.19)
But the cliff you're talking about is I get people on my webinar and then crickets. Nobody follows up with an engagement. What were some of the tricks that you found, again, from the outside that worked or didn't work to increase that number?
Logan Lyles (07:19.519)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Logan Lyles (07:28.511)
Yeah, there were two. So the first is strategic. The second is a little bit more tactical. So the first one from a strategy perspective, I think a lot of agencies and any sort of professional service firm, really, we can get into this trap of just giving away enough of our expertise. But it's kind of random smatterings. And we're kind of, we know a little bit about this. We know a little bit about this.
And it's missing a couple of things. One, we're not packaging up our expertise and our ideas into a framework that we can talk about that makes it obvious that we understand not only the industry, but what's the problem? What's kind of the old way of doing things and what is the framework that can actually solve that problem and lead to better results? And so I think that I really tried to focus in on how do I
create a webinar series where we're talking about kind of the natural symptoms and problems that our potential clients are dealing with. And how does that tie into where what I was selling our workshops that we called marketing blueprints, how is that a natural next step? So I think a lot of agencies and marketers in general are missing that connection. Let's just put out expertise, but it's not, you know, organized into frameworks and it doesn't lead to a natural next step. So that's the strategic piece. I think a lot of us get wrong. The second piece.
Was more tactical and I'll explain it kind of based on I guess the old way or the standard playbook for webinars or really any events. What happens you decide to host something you go and promote it email. Maybe some cold email, maybe some LinkedIn posting, maybe some LinkedIn ads. Maybe you find a partner who's willing to share it. Whatever right you get the registrations you deliver content that hopefully isn't a pitch. It's educational.
At some point you throw the right hook, right? As Gary V says, jab, jab, right hook, but it feels a little awkward or maybe it's forced at the end of the webinar where, you know, only 40 % showed up anyway. And how many people are there at the last two minutes when you kind of throw that CTA in there and, or you do the typical follow-up either automated or semi-automated from your team of, saw you enjoy the webinar. Want to book a call? and there's good and bad ways to do that. So.
Logan Lyles (09:48.219)
Instead of running that same playbook, which I did, and that led to what I call the conversion cliff. I had heard of a friend who was running a Legion service. It's actually marketing max. My cohost on the marketing max show we talked about earlier, where he introduced me to this two step signup process that he was running for clients, where he was running ads to get people to sign up for their newsletter. And he made the signup form super simple, name an email, maybe just email, but as soon as they fill it out.
They are redirected onto basically a lead qualification survey. Now it's a second step so that you don't, you know, you don't see your conversions fall off, but to the registrant, it feels like just one smooth process and ask them a few more questions. What's your role size of companies, some of those segmentation questions and qualifying questions that we want to ask. But with any lead magnet, whether it's a newsletter or webinar, we don't want to put eight fields on a form, but with this process. Yeah.
Steve / Agency Outsight (10:38.979)
Mm-hmm.
Steve / Agency Outsight (10:44.087)
But you've already got their email address from the first page, so.
Logan Lyles (10:46.365)
We've already, yeah, they've already converted even if they don't fill out all of your survey. And I was like, huh, that would probably work for webinars too. And so I implemented this two-step signup process similarly with webinars. And that's where I saw that 5X increase. And what was cool is people were booking sales calls with me before the webinar even happened. And so I could show up to the webinar and be like, great, this is the 95 % that fits my target market, but they're not in the market right now. How do I just show up and educate them?
Point them to the next step that's logical, but I don't feel like I have to mix the education with the pitch at all because I've captured as much as possible of the 5 % in market even beforehand by just changing up where I made the ask.
Steve / Agency Outsight (11:29.592)
Yeah, yeah, I like the idea of can you book the follow-up call at the registration before the actual webinar or something along those lines, get more information upfront before the event, but also after you've already got them registered. So while they're on the hook, keep them hooked. Yeah.
Logan Lyles (11:45.277)
Yep. Yep. It's kind of the best of both worlds. Like we're always as marketers, like let's get as little information as possible to increase conversions or let's get more information and maybe decrease conversions, but maybe we get more quality. This gives you the best of both worlds. And by the way, the people who fill out the survey, but they answer no to the question at the end that says, do you want to book a free strategy call about XYZ problem? They say no, they've answered five or six more questions that now you don't have to.
guess on that or spend extra money on enrichment data platform. They can go into your CRM more segmented and you can customize the follow up with those folks as well to further increase your conversion from webinar sign up to actual pipeline.
Steve / Agency Outsight (12:29.56)
Yeah. Do you think this strategy, kind of a webinar series is best suited for larger company, larger B2B services companies, smaller, like, like I'm a one man shop. I've got a couple of VA's that support me on production on random things, but I see agencies, 20, 30 people. I mean, this is a great solution for them to say, let's build something internally, bring somebody like you in or build something internally with the tools that we have and the people that we have and the brains that we have.
Logan Lyles (12:40.596)
Mm-hmm.
Steve / Agency Outsight (12:59.778)
build out a once a quarter webinar reaching out to whether it's cold leads or warm leads, inviting them to this paid or unpaid. What's your thought there?
Logan Lyles (13:11.167)
Yeah, I was primarily doing it as unpaid. We did run one workshop where it was $97, and the founder of the agency did a workshop on AI fundamentals. We gave it away free to clients with a discount code, but then charged $97 to kind of the rest of our email database. So we did experiment with paid, but I find that for me, I was trying to book sales calls for our higher ticket consulting services and ongoing.
marketing services. So I think free. do think that depending on your size of team, it can work in both instances, just the smaller your team, probably the simpler and the more automated your tech stack needs to be. for instance, you hit the nail on the head, business builders, when I was there, we were just about 20 people. So a sizable agency that we had unbalanced for the landing pages.
Type form for the lead qualification survey. We're a HubSpot partner, so we had a HubSpot Pro plan we could utilize, and then Zoom webinars. What I'm doing now for my own as a solopreneur, and so that I can spin up my clients' instances quickly, I'm looking at how can I take three of those systems and consolidate that to one. So for instance, right now, I'm building out my framework on Go High Level plus Zoom, and that's it.
Steve / Agency Outsight (14:26.68)
Mm-hmm.
Logan Lyles (14:34.043)
little bit of make in between, but lower cost, fewer systems to manage that sort of stuff for a solopreneur like myself and also wanting to move fast for my clients. I'd say, depending on your tech stack and your team, yes, the answer is not either or. I think it's yes and, but it's a little bit of which route would you go with the actual execution. But I do think for agencies, this makes a lot of sense because
We're talking now about how I used it to convert more to direct leads, right? And we're talking more about the lead gen demand gen side of it. But you said the words earlier, thought leadership. And I think this allows you to do both because you're doing an ongoing video series, much like a podcast. It's a webinar. So people are registering. So there's a little bit closer tie to pipeline and revenue, but you can still treat it as thought leadership and chop it up into short form clips.
turn that into other video content and other social content. And I think in any sort of service-based business, an agency especially, people are making a decision based on what is the expertise of the team that I'm actually going to work with. And this allows you to put that on display in content that's not AI generated, that's not anything anybody can do. It's your team, it's your subject matter experts on video each and every month or however often you're doing webinars.
Steve / Agency Outsight (15:57.614)
I love that and I even akin it to the know, like and trust kind of checkboxes. So I know you because I've heard of you or you've marketed towards me. And so you've got this event and now I'm going to I'll sign up because I'm going to earn some trust there. And I think that also ties into how much information people are going to give us at a registration or at signing up for a webinar or giving me, know, just signing up for a newsletter or whatever. So.
Logan Lyles (16:02.823)
Right, right.
Steve / Agency Outsight (16:26.06)
The trust factor is massive there, but I see it for thought leadership to your point. You can use that for content afterwards. can send it to use it as a, like a speaking, booking, real, or something along those lines. Like there's a lot of legs to have it. I asked about paid versus unpaid because when I've seen unpaid events, whether it's in person or on zoom or whatever,
the I don't know what technical term you would call it, the actual percentage of people that show up is so much smaller. Attendance rate, sure. Yeah, so much smaller than if there's some skin in the game, even if it's a hundred bucks. But like, you know, I'm on the board for the New Jersey ad club and we talk a lot about do we do free networking events? Even if it's twenty five bucks, is that enough to make somebody show up? You know, and. But in the seats is, think what really drives.
Logan Lyles (17:02.291)
Yeah, your show rate or attendance rate, right? Yeah.
Logan Lyles (17:09.535)
Sure, sure.
Logan Lyles (17:18.419)
Yep. Yep.
Steve / Agency Outsight (17:24.81)
some perception of success on these kinds of events, you know, and especially if you're trying to show expertise for an agency of, we crush it in marketing for manufacturing and we're going to do a webinar on the top 10 things to do for manufacturer marketing. Somebody, you know, if we get enough people, like there's some, some, clout there, I guess you can say, right.
Logan Lyles (17:47.487)
Yeah. Yeah. And it's kind of looking at looking the math of your own situation, right? Do we want more registrants and a higher conversion rate, but still going to be less, right? I was talking about 10 % converting into sales calls and the average show rate in B2B for webinars is somewhere in the 30 to 50 % range typically on average, right? Which isn't bad, but the paid one that we did, we got far fewer signups, but the show rate was like 90%.
So I would say you could kind of experiment with both. And ultimately what you want to know is how many total people actually showed up and how many of those people actually, you know, took the next step. Right. And it's kind of, you know, as my friend Rex Biberston always says is it's the math of sales, right? Whatever your motion is, recognize what are those conversion points and then, and then look at the, look at the entire process because you might be.
looking at one piece and just trying really hard to optimize this, but just moving that 1 % isn't going to flow downstream like you think it is. So it's interesting to the part you mentioned about building trust. When I launched Demand Shift just three weeks ago, my first client that signed up was a regular attendee of the monthly webinar series that I ran for going on two years at Teamwork.
Steve / Agency Outsight (19:11.266)
Wow, okay.
Logan Lyles (19:11.435)
And when we hopped on our first call, we'd exchange some LinkedIn messages. He was one of those that would chime in and say, Hey, I love this part of the webinar. Thanks for doing that. Yada yada. And I said, Hey, have we ever actually been on a zoom call one-to-one? You know how that is sometimes, right? He's like, well, no, we haven't, but I feel like I've been on this call dozens of times because I've seen you on podcasts. I've been live on your webinars where you're presenting. And so that to me was that.
blending of demand gen with brand building right there in that instance. And I don't think that I would have closed that first client that I'm working with now if he hadn't, you know, known, liked and trusted me from me being on video, both live and async over a long period of time where he got to know me, see my expertise. Um, and it was much shorter sales cycle than most of us are seeing right now in agency land. We all know it's getting
harder to close clients, they're being scrutinizing their budget and their options more and more. Anything we can do to speed that up is definitely in our best interest.
Steve / Agency Outsight (20:18.702)
And this is a great strategy and I love it. I can say there's five or six clients that I've worked with that reached out to me through tooth to specifically through my podcast, reached out. Hey, I saw your YouTube of one of your episodes. I'd love to hire you and 10 minute phone call. We closed the business. Others were, um, I've yeah, I've seen you speak. I literally just today sent out a, uh, an onboarding email.
Logan Lyles (20:31.198)
Mm-hmm.
Logan Lyles (20:39.327)
I love that. I love that so much.
Steve / Agency Outsight (20:46.35)
to a new client, they saw me speak. We had one Zoom call. I invited them to a workshop that I was having. I was like, why don't you just, here's a coupon code, join me to this workshop that I'm having. I obviously didn't turn them off too badly and they sent me a confirmation, you know what I mean? So like the ability to demonstrate expertise, know, like, and trust, speaking, thought leadership beyond the...
LinkedIn posting nonsense like genuine FaceTime like said either in person or on zoom there is nothing like it so building a strategy around launching workshops webinars podcasts, I mean Seems like a no-brainer
Logan Lyles (21:17.757)
Hehehe.
Logan Lyles (21:34.739)
And to me, I've tried to kind of blend. It's been interesting. I was just talking to a potential client the other day and they're like, we don't want to build a deck every month. Our CEO is likely going to be like the main subject matter expert, the speaker. He's not going to be able to kind of organize a talk every month. And I was like, yeah, but what if we just ran it like a live podcast instead of kind of a traditional quote unquote webinar? I'll host. I'll
you know, build a content outline. We don't even necessarily have to have a deck. I feel like people expect it if it's one-on-one, but if you just have two people, all of a sudden it's like, okay, it's fine. As long as this is well structured and I can follow it. I like to do some things to keep people engaged, like strategically placing polls, like three of them throughout the hour. If we do an hour long webinar to get people kind of quickly engaged without having to put something in the chat, which a lot of people are hesitant about.
And he was like, yeah, well, I could just show up and, you know, answer some questions. Like I could do that once a month. I heck I could do that once a week. So I think it's also about rethinking kind of these, you know, everything in marketing is dead now, right? Webinars are dead. SEO is dead. maybe they're dead in the way that we were doing them, but maybe a slightly different approach, just like, you know, my signup process led to some really good results that I wasn't even necessarily expecting. Cause I took.
you know, an existing playbook and tweaked it a little bit. think we can apply that in a lot of different areas, webinars, podcasts, everything.
Steve / Agency Outsight (23:02.914)
Yeah, I, I, I agree. I had a guest on Jeremy wise from rise 25 and he talked a lot about a podcast guesting strategy. where, know, the same client you're talking about, we don't need a deck. We're just going to have a conversation, but what if mixing up that conversation with potential, clients of theirs or, people that they want to have an impact on their industry or, you know, thought leaders to assist in what the cloud is that you're trying to build is just a really good strategy.
So yeah, I love it. I think it's a great opportunity to just kind of give exposure and get exposure in what you're building. Yeah. Listen, I want to wrap up, throw a couple of random questions at you. I love what you're building. Big fan, excited to see what you do. I'm a fan of anybody launching anything, man. It's like no risk, no reward, but I do think there's a need for what you're doing. I think that agencies are clamoring for...
Logan Lyles (23:38.815)
Absolutely.
Steve / Agency Outsight (23:57.73)
How do we stand out? How do we make our mark? How do we show that we are experts? And here's an opportunity to do it. Build content, be thought leaders, put on webinars, invite people to see what you are good at, you know? And it's not just the shiny pixels that you're putting, moving around on a screen. Yeah.
Logan Lyles (24:10.623)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's your real expertise and your hard-won knowledge of working with clients across industries, across those terrible clients that, you know, struggle to get results or the ones that did or didn't appreciate it, all of those sorts of things. Like it's hard-won expertise that we have as agency folks. And so often it doesn't really see the light of day. And yeah, I like to see people change that.
Steve / Agency Outsight (24:37.336)
Yeah, I love it. All right. What is your go-to karaoke song?
Logan Lyles (24:42.761)
my gosh. I have none because my wife and kids will tell you I do not. I cannot carry a tune in a bucket, but you know, I grew up in Southern Louisiana before I relocated to Colorado when my family moved. So some good old nineties country, something Garth Brooks, maybe rodeo, friends in low places. I'll go with something there.
Steve / Agency Outsight (25:04.942)
I'll take it, a big country fan, so I like it. What's a failure that later turned out to be a blessing?
Logan Lyles (25:12.649)
Hmm. I mean, I'd say that, you know, I looked at our first three webinars that I ran at business builders and I was like, this seemed great, but then it seemed like a failure. and it made me rethink the process. And so it kind of gave rise to this framework that is now the foundation for my, my new thing. So yeah, it's meta it's sound self-serving, but that's first thing that comes to mind.
Steve / Agency Outsight (25:38.25)
It's not self-serving because you're here to help other people and I freaking love that man. So you took what you learned from what didn't work out so great before and now you've got this, you know, Phoenix rising out of it, man. So big fan of that. And then finally, what's a business habit that you had to unlearn in order to grow?
Logan Lyles (25:48.863)
You
Logan Lyles (25:57.427)
thinking that all sales were good sales. I remember in my first two years of sales, I sold copiers and printers, scanners, like fax machines, like boring stuff. And I remember that anyone who would say yes to a conversation or me putting together a proposal on something I could sell them, like I just, I would not let that go. And then I realized, you know,
I was with my sales manager and if you think about it, you're selling copiers and printers, like who are the people that you really want to get in front of the people that are pushing a ton of paper, your lawyers, your accounting firms, like government offices, schools, that sort of stuff. And I remember going to visit a client with my sales manager and he had this big title company that had these big copiers that were, you 20 grand and over here I was like chasing every thousand, $2,000 deal I could get my hands on. was like,
It's not just about who will say yes, it's about finding the right fit customers and spending your time there. And I think we can fall into that trap in agency land as well, especially when times are tougher and deals move slower. So yeah, that's my long-winded answer, but that's the story that comes to mind.
Steve / Agency Outsight (27:08.302)
But it's a valuable answer and it's something we talk a lot about in coaching as far as like when you stay niche and you stay focused, you've got to learn to say no to the right things that you're saying no to so you can leave room for the right yeses. So I love it, man. Logan Lyles, everybody check out demandshift.co. Thank you for joining me. I appreciate you and your expertise and your time today. Yeah, buddy.
Logan Lyles (27:13.875)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Logan Lyles (27:27.593)
Thanks for having me, Steve. Appreciate it,