In episode 149, I sit down with David Wain-Heapy, founder of Prodigy, a company that helps agencies and digital businesses build flexible, scalable remote teams through global talent sourcing.

David spent 14 years building and running a Magento-focused e-commerce agency out of central London before selling it to Brave Bison PLC. We talk through what that exit process actually looked like, why the right acquirer matters as much as the right offer, and how building systems independent of the founders made the transition possible.

From there, we get into the real substance of what David does now: helping agencies shift from an outsourcing mindset to an offshore hiring mindset. There's a difference, and it matters. Agency owners will come away with a clearer framework for when and how to integrate global talent, how to think about time zones, which roles translate well offshore, and what AI is actually doing — and not yet doing — to development teams in agencies right now.

Key Bytes

• Outsourcing and offshore hiring are not the same thing — one is a handoff, the other is a hire.

• The fix for a failed first attempt wasn't better talent, it was better integration — sprints, tools, and cadence.

• Building a business that runs independently of you isn't just good leadership, it's what makes you acquirable.

• The right acquirer matters as much as the right offer — alignment on team and culture is what made a six-month handoff possible.

• East Coast agencies fit well with Eastern European talent; West Coast agencies are better served by South and Central America.

• AI handles contained tasks well, but it still can't hold the context of an enterprise-scale project.

• The people who will thrive in an AI-augmented world are the ones who bring real creativity — the architects and problem-solvers, not just the executors.

Chapters

00:00 Why this conversation matters for agency owners right now

01:45 David's 14-year agency journey and building in a competitive London market

05:10 The first attempt at offshore talent and why it failed

08:30 Selling to Brave Bison: what the exit process actually looked like

13:15 Choosing the right acquirer and making a clean handoff

17:00 Outsourcing vs. offshore hiring: why the mindset shift changes everything

21:30 How to think about time zones when sourcing global talent

24:45 What systems agencies need before hiring offshore

28:00 Where AI is actually helping agency dev teams right now

33:20 Which roles work well offshore and which don't

37:50 Rapid fire: surfing in Bristol, letting go of control, and a risky bet that paid off

David Wain-Heapy is an experienced founder currently focused on building remote teams for digital businesses with Prodigi.

Having sold my digital agency to Brave Bison PLC, I am now working to provide a flexible and scalable solution that enables companies to take control of hiring by looking at a global talent pool.

I have many years experience building globally distributed teams of digital professionals and leading them to help great businesses win in the race for attention and accelerate their digital growth.

Contact David:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-wain-heapy/

http://www.prodigi.team

In episode 148, I sit down with Cameron Herold, founder of COO Alliance and one of the most recognized voices in operational leadership, to talk about the mindset shift agency owners desperately need right now: stepping into the role of CEO and building a true COO mindset inside their business.

Cameron has helped scale companies like 1-800-GOT-JUNK and advised hundreds of growth-stage businesses, and in this conversation, we unpack what it really means to work on the business instead of being trapped inside it. We talk about the operator’s lens, how founders accidentally become bottlenecks, and why operational maturity is often the difference between a lifestyle business and a scalable asset.

If you’re an agency owner who feels stretched thin, stuck in delivery, or unsure how to elevate your leadership team, this one is a masterclass in stepping up and leveling up.

Key Bytes

• The CEO’s job is vision. The COO’s job is execution. Most agency owners are trying to do both — and burning out.

• Operational discipline isn’t about bureaucracy — it’s about freeing the founder from the day-to-day.

• If you’re still the glue holding everything together, you don’t have a scalable business — you have a dependency.

• Working on the business requires intentional systems, delegation maturity, and the courage to step back.

• Strong operators build companies that can grow, sell, or run without the founder in the weeds.

Chapters

00:00 Welcome & Cameron’s Scaling Background

04:12 The Difference Between a Founder and a CEO

09:48 Why Most Agencies Don’t Truly Work “On” the Business

16:35 The COO Mindset Explained

23:10 Founders as Bottlenecks

31:42 Building Operational Discipline Without Red Tape

40:18 Hiring & Developing Strong Operators

49:03 Scaling vs. Lifestyle Businesses

57:25 Final Advice for Agency Owners

Cameron Herold is the mastermind behind the exponential growth of hundreds of companies globally. Founder of the COO Alliance, and Invest In Your Leaders training.  Cameron is known as the "CEO Whisperer", and is also the former COO of 1-800-GOT-JUNK?, where he engineered the company's spectacular growth from $2 million to $106 million in revenue in just six years.

The publisher of Forbes magazine, Rich Karlgaard, stated "Cameron Herold is the best speaker I've ever heard...he hits grand slams”.   Cameron is

the host of the Second In Command podcast, author of 6 bestselling books, including The Second In Command, Vivid Vision, Meetings Suck, Free PR, Double Double, and The Miracle Morning for Entrepreneurs.

Cameron is a top-rated international speaker and has been paid to speak in 26 countries and on all 7 continents, including Antarctica in early 2022.

www.cooalliance.com

www.cameronherold.com

https://www.instagram.com/cameron_herold_cooalliance

https://www.facebook.com/COOAlliance/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/cameronherold

https://www.linkedin.com/company/coo-alliance/

https://twitter.com/cooalliance

https://www.youtube.com/@CameronHerold?sub_confirmation=1

https://cooalliance.com/vivid-vision/

In episode 147, I sit down with Amy Hood, designer and co-founder of Hoodzpah Design, the Southern California brand identity studio behind work for Disney, Nike, Netflix, Target, and the Lakers. Amy and her twin sister Jen built Hoodzpah out of necessity after realizing they were “unhireable on paper,” and turned it into a nimble, right-sized studio that’s intentionally stayed small to protect speed, momentum, and creative quality.

We talk about why “make the work you want to get” is still the most reliable path to better clients, how relationships compound when you lead with curiosity (not strategy), and why creatives have to treat marketing as part of the job if they want opportunities to find them.

Amy also shares the story behind Hoodspa’s Adobe MAX banner plane stunt (“No more broke creatives”), what they learned from taking a big marketing swing, and how they’re shifting from service work into products like their updated book Freelance, and Business, and Stuff and the Fort font subscription app.

Key Bytes

• Making the work you want to get is still the fastest way to change the caliber of clients you attract.

• Staying small on purpose can be a growth strategy — speed and momentum beat bureaucracy.

• If you don’t share your work, people can’t refer you because there’s no proof you exist.

• Spectacle marketing works when it’s aligned, intentional, and captures attention in a sea of noise.

• Diversifying income through products creates longevity — especially when your body can’t grind forever.

Chapters

00:00 Welcome + who Amy Hood is

01:05 Hoodzpah’s origin: “unhireable on paper” to studio owners

02:59 Twin partnership: dividing roles and avoiding scorekeeping

08:41 Staying small on purpose (and why bigger can be slower)

11:18 Landing better clients by making the work you want

18:03 Dream clients + putting your hat in the ring

21:00 Adobe MAX banner plane: “No more broke creatives”

28:40 From service to product: book, fonts, and Fort app

31:48 Font licensing fear and why clients are gun-shy

38:44 Rapid fire: resets, creative myths, and boundaries

Amy Hood is a designer and co-founder of Hoodzpah, Inc, a brand identity studio in Southern California that has worked with companies like Disney, 20th Century, Nike, The Lakers, Target, and Netflix. Amy's logo and identity work centers around custom lettering solutions. She is the font designer behind Palm Canyon Drive, Beale, and Beverly Drive. When she's not stress-watching Laker games, Amy can be found at the beach plein-air doodling and practicing her Smashball back hand. She co-authored the book “Freelance, and Business, and Stuff: A Guide for Creatives” (and it's related online course) with her sister Jennifer based on the Professional Practices class they taught at Laguna College of Art & Design.

www.hoodzpahdesign.com

instagram.com/hoodzpahdesign

youtube.com/hoodzpah

In episode 146, I’m joined by Doreen Morin-van Dam, a content strategist with more than 15 years of experience helping brands grow through smart, sustainable marketing. Doreen works with teams on how to use AI responsibly and effectively, hosts the Strategy Talks video podcast, and is known for blending emerging tech with deeply human content strategies.

We dig into what really happened when companies rushed to replace humans with AI in 2025—and why many of them quietly reversed course by Q4. Doreen shares what she’s seeing brands regret most, how “AI slop” became a real problem, and why human-led content is becoming a competitive advantage again. We also explore how agencies can use AI as a strategic partner (not a shortcut), why long-form content matters more than ever, and how organic and paid media must work together. This is a grounded, practical conversation for agency owners trying to navigate AI without losing trust, quality, or their voice.

Key Bytes

• Why replacing humans with AI backfired for many brands in 2025

• How AI slop diluted trust, performance, and differentiation

• Why humans must remain the source of truth in content strategy

• How to use AI to analyze, enhance, and scale—not replace—expertise

• Why long-form, opinionated content performs better with LLMs

• How organic social still drives testing, trust, and paid performance

• Why being different beats being “better” in crowded markets

• How agencies should rethink in-house marketing investment

Chapters

00:00 Why 2025 became the “AI correction year”

02:30 What brands got wrong when they replaced people with AI

05:45 Why agencies must treat themselves as their best client

08:55 AI avatars, ethical concerns, and consumer trust

11:30 From AI slop to human-led strategy

15:05 Humans as the source of truth in content

19:45 Why long-form content matters for AI discovery

21:20 Organic social isn’t dead—it’s misunderstood

26:25 Organic + paid: why they must work together

28:00 Rapid-fire questions and practical takeaways

Dorien Morin-van Dam is a Vermont-based content strategist with over 15 years of experience helping brands grow through smart, sustainable strategies. A Certified Social Media Manager and Agile Marketer, she also consults on AI strategy for small businesses, showing teams how to use AI in marketing responsibly and effectively. Dorien turns organic content and emerging tech into measurable results, speaks internationally, and hosts the Strategy Talks video podcast. You’ll recognize her on stage and online by her signature orange glasses, a nod to her Dutch heritage.

https://www.moreinmedia.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/moreinmedia/

https://www.youtube.com/@DorienMorinVanDam/podcasts

In episode 145, I sit down with Jessica Hische—a world-renowned lettering artist, New York Times bestselling author, and one of the most thoughtful creative voices of our generation. And full transparency: I’ve been a huge fan of Jessica’s work for a long time. Her ability to pair obsessive craft with clarity, intention, and humanity has influenced how I think about creative work for years.

This conversation goes far beyond tactics or tools. We dig into what it really means to answer a creative calling—and then protect it. Jessica shares how she’s built a career that honors her instincts, values her time, and stays deeply connected to her craft, without burning out or selling out. We talk about the choices she’s made to stay true to her creative voice, even when external pressure—clients, platforms, trends, or scale—could easily pull things off course.

We also explore the less romantic but absolutely essential side of creative freedom: boundaries, systems, pricing, and self-advocacy. Jessica opens up about how she’s learned to put structure around her work not as a constraint, but as a way to preserve joy, sustainability, and long-term creative integrity. Whether it’s choosing the right projects, saying no without guilt, or building tools that support creatives instead of exploiting them, her through-line is clear: creativity thrives when it’s respected.

For agency owners and creative leaders, this episode is a powerful reminder that building a business—or a career—on your own terms isn’t about sacrificing ambition. It’s about defining success for yourself, staying grounded in your craft, and making intentional choices that allow your work, and your life, to evolve together.

This one felt special to record—and I think it’ll resonate deeply with anyone trying to build something meaningful, creatively and personally.

Key Bytes

• Why answering a creative calling is an ongoing commitment, not a one-time decision

• How staying true to your craft doesn’t require self-sacrifice

• The role boundaries and structure play in long-term creative freedom

• Why defining success for yourself is the real creative advantage

• How creatives can grow without burning out or losing their voice

Chapters

00:00 Following a creative calling

06:40 Staying true to your craft over time

14:10 Defining success on your own terms

22:35 Boundaries, pricing, and protecting creative energy

31:20 Structure as a support, not a constraint

40:05 Evolving creatively without losing yourself

48:30 Advice for creatives building sustainable careers

Jessica Hische is a lettering artist and New York Times Best-selling author based in Oakland, California. She specializes in typographical work for logos, film, books, and other commercial applications. Her clients include Wes Anderson, The United States Postal Service, Target, Hallmark, and Penguin Books and her work has been featured again and again in design and illustration annuals both in the US and internationally. She’s been named a Print Magazine New Visual Artist (20 under 30), one of Forbes 30 under 30 in Art and Design, an ADC Young Gun, a “Person to Watch” by GD USA, and an Adweek “Creative 100”. She's also the co-founder of Studioworks, invoicing software for creatives by creatives.

@jessicahische (threads and instagram)

jessicahische.is/awesome

studioworks.app

In episode 144, I’m joined by Ali Mirza, a sales expert who’s personally closed over $450 million in revenue and advised hundreds of high-growth companies, including multiple Inc. 500 winners and successful exits.

Ali and I dig into what’s really broken in agency sales today — from why “more leads” isn’t the answer, to how founders unintentionally sabotage deals, to the mindset shifts required to close larger, more confident engagements. This conversation is especially relevant for agency owners who are great at delivery but feel stuck, uncomfortable, or inconsistent when it comes to selling.

We talk candidly about sales systems vs. sales personalities, the danger of winging it, and how agencies can move from reactive selling to intentional, scalable growth without becoming someone they’re not.

Key Bytes

• Why “just getting more leads” rarely fixes agency sales problems

• The hidden mindset traps that keep agency owners underpricing

• How confidence (not pressure) actually drives better close rates

• The difference between selling expertise vs. selling outcomes

• Why inconsistent sales processes hurt valuation and scalability

Chapters

00:00 Why agency sales feels harder than it should

04:32 The biggest sales myths agency owners believe

09:15 Why confidence matters more than scripts

14:40 Selling outcomes vs. selling services

20:05 How founders accidentally sabotage deals

26:18 Pricing fear and the psychology behind it

32:10 Building a repeatable sales process

38:45 What great agency sales leadership really looks like

44:20 Final advice for agency owners who hate selling

Ali Mirza is a sales expert who has personally closed over $450 million in sales with multiple Inc. 500 companies and high-growth startups.

His work has been featured in Inc., Forbes, Huffington Post, Business Insider, and more. He has consulted for hundreds of companies, with 17 earning the Inc. 500 Fastest Growing Companies award and three successfully acquired. He is president of Atlanta-based consulting firm, Rose Garden.

Connect with Ali:

alimirza.com

rosegardenconsulting.com

IG: @alimirza.rgc

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In episode 143, I dig into one of the most underestimated risks in agency ownership: the legal blind spots that quietly cost agencies millions over time.

From contracts and scope creep to client disputes, IP ownership, and liability exposure, we unpack where agencies unknowingly put themselves at risk — and why most don’t realize it until it’s too late.

This conversation is a must-listen for agency owners who want to protect what they’ve built, reduce unnecessary exposure, and stop treating legal as an afterthought instead of a growth safeguard.

Key Bytes

• Most agencies don’t realize their biggest legal risks until a problem hits

• Poor contracts quietly drain profit long before lawsuits happen

• Scope creep is as much a legal issue as it is a pricing issue

• IP ownership mistakes can create long-term client and valuation problems

• Proactive legal structure is a growth advantage, not a cost center

Chapters

00:00 Why legal blind spots are so common in agencies

04:15 The contracts agencies rely on (and why they fall short)

10:20 Scope creep as a legal and financial issue

18:05 IP ownership mistakes that come back years later

26:40 Client disputes: where agencies expose themselves

34:10 Risk vs. fear: what actually matters legally

42:00 Simple fixes agency owners can make now

50:10 How legal hygiene protects valuation and exit

56:30 Final thoughts & wrap-up

Sharon Toerek is Founder of Toerek Law (doing business in the agency world as Legal + Creative), where she focuses her national law practice on helping advertising, marketing, communications and creative agencies protect their assets and turn their ideas into revenue.

Sharon provides proactive, strategic counsel to communications, marketing, advertising, digital and creative agencies on legal and business issues they face continually in their work, including:

• agency-client relationships, including agency service contracts

• agency-freelancer and agency strategic alliance relationship management

• trademark and copyright protection, enforcement and licensing

• influencer marketing negotiations and content marketing legal compliance

• advertising regulatory compliance

• AI policy and risk management for agencies

Sharon is an approved participant on the 4A's Legal Consultants Panel, and a member of the 4A’s Expert Network. She has also served as President of the American Ad Federation (AAF) Cleveland and has been elected to AAF Cleveland’s Hall of Fame.

In addition to her Firm’s work representing U.S. independent agencies, Sharon

• Created the Legal + Creative Agency Protection System, a comprehensive legal education and legal toolkit for marketing, ad and creative services agencies

• Created and hosted over 300 episodes of the agency-focused podcast The Innovative Agency, a podcast about innovation and trends in the marketing agency world

• Presents sessions on agency-critical legal topics to independent agency networks, to private agency audiences, and at industry conferences including INBOUND, Content Marketing World, MAICON, the Build a Better Agency Summit, Own It Summit, Mirren New York, and PRSA Counselors Academy.

Contact Sharon:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharontoerek/

https://legalandcreative.com/

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In episode 142, I sit down with Amy Maxwell, founder and creative director of Maxwell Design, to talk about the real tension small creative shops face: how do you grow without sacrificing the craft that made you successful in the first place?

We dig into what it looks like to evolve from “hands-on designer” to “agency leader,” how to protect quality as you add capacity, and how to make smart choices about clients, process, and scope so growth doesn’t turn into chaos. If you want to scale with intention (and still love the work), this one’s for you.

Key Bytes

• Scaling doesn’t have to mean sacrificing creative quality

• Your process is what protects the craft as you grow

• “Better clients” often solves what “more clients” can’t

• You can stay hands-on without being the bottleneck

• The right constraints create consistency, not limitation

• Hiring should reduce friction, not add management drag

• Clear scope and boundaries prevent quiet burnout

Chapters

00:00 Intro: scaling without losing the craft

02:10 Amy’s origin story and building Maxwell Design

06:20 The “stay small” choice and what it protects

11:05 When growth starts to strain quality (warning signs)

16:10 Processes that keep creative standards high

22:30 Team structure: support roles vs creative roles

28:40 Client fit, boundaries, and saying “no” earlier

34:15 Staying fulfilled while the business grows

40:20 Rapid-fire questions and wrap-up

Amy—Creative Director + Founder of Maxwell Design—has spent the last two decades helping businesses look their best. She’s an award-winning designer with a knack for reading minds and creating delightful visual experiences. Her solution-focused approach makes her someone you’ll want in any room. And her small (but mighty) team comes with some major design chops.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwelldesignco/

http://maxwelldesignco.com/

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In episode 140, I sit down with Michael Janda—agency founder, bestselling author, and one of the most respected voices helping creatives master the business side of creativity. Michael built and sold Riser, worked with giants like Disney and Google, and later led creative teams at Fox before dedicating his career to teaching creatives how to price, position, and run their businesses without burning out.

We dig into the mental and operational “growing up” that every creative eventually faces: getting past portfolio thinking, charging confidently, understanding value, eliminating chaos, and building a more peaceful (and profitable) creative life. Michael’s straight-talk wisdom hits every agency owner exactly where they need it—no fluff, no ego, just clarity.

Key Bytes

• Why creatives struggle with pricing — and how to fix it

• The mindset shift from freelancer to business owner

• How Michael positioned his agency to win massive clients

• The surprising relationship between process, profit, and peace

• What creatives get wrong about value

• Why “portfolio thinking” holds owners back

• How to build a business that supports your life, not the other way around

Chapters

00:01 Welcome + Michael’s background and agency journey

04:12 From creative chaos to building processes that scale

09:45 Why pricing is emotional—and how to make it objective

14:30 Portfolio vs. business owner mindset

19:58 Finding ideal clients and positioning that works

25:21 How Michael sold his agency and what he learned

31:44 The psychology of creative profitability

38:10 Achieving peace of mind as an owner

44:22 Michael’s advice for creatives who feel “stuck”

Michael Janda is an award-winning creative director, agency founder, and bestselling author.

He built the creative agency Riser with clients like Disney, Google, Warner Bros., and ABC, then sold the business after 13 successful years. Before that, he served as a creative director at Fox. Michael

is the author of Burn Your Portfolio and The Psychology of Graphic Design Pricing. Today, he shares practical, no-fluff strategies to help creative professionals master business, pricing, and growth.

Community: https://morecreativeacademy.com

Instagram: https://instagram.com/morejanda

YouTube: https://youtube.com/morejanda

LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/morejanda

Website: https://michaeljanda.com

Courses: https://morejanda.teachable.com

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Ep 139 – Melanie Chandruang, We Consult – Agency Ops that Actually Scale: Financials, Workflows, and AI That Works

In episode 139, I sit down with Melanie Chandruang, founder of WeConsult and a strategic operations partner for creative agencies. Melanie has spent the last seven years helping agencies tighten up their financials, streamline workflows, and build stronger leadership teams—while also navigating two maternity leaves, a cross-country move, and re-entering the industry in one of its toughest seasons.

We dig into how she rebuilt WeConsult after stepping away to have kids, what’s changed in the agency landscape since 2023, and why she’s now staying higher-level as a fractional ops leader instead of getting buried in implementation. Melanie breaks down what healthy leadership actually looks like, why so many founders remain the bottleneck even after hiring “senior” people, and how clear ownership, scorecards, and trust change everything.

We also get tactical: what she looks for first in the financials, the operational metrics that matter most, and why agencies without documented processes are struggling the most with AI adoption. We wrap by talking about leading through uncertainty, avoiding burnout, and the simple practice Melanie uses to remind herself of the value she’s creating—plus her very 90s go-to karaoke song.

Key Bytes
• Clean financials and clear reporting are the true foundation of scalable ops

• Workflow ownership matters — if it’s nobody’s job, it’s nobody’s job

• Founders stay bottlenecks when leadership has no autonomy or scorecards

• Agencies with documented systems adopt AI faster (and with fewer messes)

• Strong leadership = trust, clarity, and shared problem-solving

• Self-care and boundaries are essential for sustainable agency ownership

Chapters

00:01 Intro and how Melanie rebuilt WeConsult after kids and a cross-country move

02:48 Stepping away from client work, losing momentum, and clawing back into a changed industry

05:36 Why Melanie now stays high-level and pushes implementation to internal teams and automation

07:42 Founders as bottlenecks and what a truly strong leadership team looks like

11:15 Ego, scale, and the operational shifts required for owners to get out of the way

15:36 Where Melanie starts operationally: financials, workflows, and clear ownership

18:07 The agency financial metrics that actually matter (profitability, cash, utilization, and more)

22:03 Why documented systems are the key to successful AI adoption (and how messy it gets without them)

26:00 Leading through uncertainty, rebuilding a business, and protecting your own wellbeing

28:38 AI note-takers, imposter syndrome, and Melanie’s “value” practice

31:36 Melanie’s 90s karaoke pick and where to learn more about WeConsult

Melanie Chandruang is the Founder of WeConsult and a Strategic Operations Partner for creative agencies. With over 15 years in the industry, she helps agency owners boost profits, streamline operations, and move big initiatives forward so they can focus on growth and what matters most.

https://weconsult.io/

Ep 138 – Jordan Snider, Token Creative – The impact of integrating Ignition App

In episode 138, I sit down with Jordan Snider, co-founder and CTO of Token Creative Services, to break down the real impact of integrating Ignition App into their agency operations. Jordan shares how Token went from scattered proposals, manual invoices, and nearly $40k in aging AR to a streamlined, single-system workflow that clients actually appreciated.

We dig into the operational before/after: centralized proposals and agreements, automated billing, faster close rates, clearer scope definition, easier upsells and renewals, and the elimination of unbilled “mystery hours.” Jordan also talks about forecasting clarity — and why dashboards that tie proposals, renewals, and revenue projections together are a game changer for decision-making.

This episode is a grounded look at what happens when an agency stops tolerating a duct-taped sales and billing process and finally upgrades the operational spine of the business.

Key Bytes

• Token’s breaking point was nearly $40k in aging AR — a clear sign the proposal and billing process was broken.

• Clients were confused by multiple proposal versions, scattered contracts, and manual payments; consolidating everything through Ignition simplified the entire client experience.

• The biggest financial lift came from capturing previously unbilled variable hours and out-of-scope work.

• Automated reminders and stored payment methods dramatically reduced AR and manual follow-up.

• Forecasting became easier with visible open proposals, renewal pipelines, and year-over-year revenue projections.

• Simplifying the tech stack cut both software cost and constant integration maintenance.

• Ignition enabled Token to shift from hourly pricing to value-driven retainers because operations finally supported it.

• Jordan’s advice: delaying this overhaul guarantees regret — proactively fixing it avoids the forced crisis moment.

Chapters

00:00 Intro and why Token’s Ignition story matters

02:05 Token’s early days and “brute force” agency ops

03:10 The $40k AR wake-up call

05:10 What was broken in their proposal + onboarding workflow

06:55 Client reactions after switching to Ignition

07:50 Close rates, renewals, and handling scope creep

09:40 Capturing unbilled work and shrinking AR

11:55 Forecasting and metrics that changed decision-making

14:00 Simplifying the tech stack and ditching integrations

16:40 How clarity improved both scope and service delivery

23:40 Productizing services and shifting to retainers

25:05 Jordan’s advice for agencies resisting the overhaul

26:50 Rapid fire and wrap-up

Jordan Snider is the Co-Founder and CTOof Token Creative Services, a full-service digital marketing and creative agency based in Kitchener-Waterloo. With a background in full-stack software engineering, Jordan bridges the gap between technical development and creative marketing. He has contributed personal reflections to platforms supporting victims of family violence, discussing the unique stressors faced by newcomers and the importance of community support systems.

His work reflects a blend of technical precision and a commitment to social impact, aligning with Token Creative’s mission to support businesses making positive environmental or social changes.

token.ca

ignitionapp.info/agencybytes-trial

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Ep 137 – Jennifer Spire, Preston Spire – Built to Last: The 75-Year Agency Still Breaking Rules

In episode 137, I sit down with Jennifer Spire, Partner and CEO of Preston Spire — a 75-year-old agency that’s somehow still pushing boundaries while many newer shops flame out. Jennifer shares how she modernized a legacy company without losing the cultural DNA that kept it alive for three-quarters of a century. We get into leadership transitions, building a values-driven agency, navigating generational shifts in talent, and how she’s shaping the next era of a Midwest powerhouse.

Key Bytes

• The hidden advantages legacy agencies have but often ignore

• Why values act as a competitive moat — but only if they’re enforced

• How Jennifer leads change without blowing up culture

• The reality of modernizing 75-year-old processes

• Where agencies underestimate the work of staying relevant

Chapters

00:00 Intro

01:20 What it means to run a 75-year-old agency today

05:05 How Jennifer modernized Preston Spier without breaking it

09:40 The cultural DNA that actually drives retention

13:55 Why “values” only matter when leaders enforce them

17:48 Leadership evolution: from partner to CEO

21:30 What younger talent expects from an established shop

25:18 Staying relevant in a fast-changing industry

29:55 How Preston Spire balances legacy and innovation

33:42 Advice Jennifer wishes she had earlier

38:10 Closing thoughts

Jennifer Spire is partner and CEO at Preston Spire, an Ad Age Best Place to Work and Midwest Small Agency of the Year. She is an accomplished agency leader with over 25 years of experience in both consumer and B2B marketing for just about every industry out there. At Preston Spire, Jennifer has played the leading role in reshaping the framework that defines the agency, focused on a strong vision, values and purpose. She has been a speaker at dozens of local and national conferences, has authored articles and thought pieces on various marketing subjects, and has been a board member of several nonprofit organizations. Jennifer was an east coast native before calling Minneapolis home. She was an NCGA gymnast and a gymnastics coach, who also had advertising in her blood, thanks to her grandfather being one of the founding fathers of Madison Avenue.

Contact Jennifer:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-spire-a992462/

https://www.prestonspire.com/

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Ep 136 – JP Holecka, Power Shifter Digital – Building the AI-Driven Agency: Lessons from Power Shifter’s Evolution

In episode 136, I sit down with JP Holecka, founder and CEO of Power Shifter Digital, a Vancouver-based agency leading the shift toward AI-driven digital products and content creation. With over 30 years of experience in design, film, and technology, JP has guided multiple teams through successful AI rollouts—transforming workflows, scaling creativity, and redefining how digital agencies deliver value.

We talk about what it really takes to evolve your agency for the AI era, how to navigate the culture shift that comes with automation, and why embracing AI is less about replacing people and more about amplifying what they’re capable of.

KEY BYTES

• AI isn’t replacing creativity—it’s amplifying it

• True transformation starts with changing workflows, not job titles

• The most successful AI rollouts start with internal adoption before client delivery

• Leadership has to model curiosity and experimentation

• Agencies that treat AI as a tool, not a threat, are finding their competitive edge

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction

02:01 JP’s background and the evolution of Power Shifter

06:32 The first AI experiments that changed everything

10:45 Getting team buy-in and overcoming initial skepticism

14:58 Building processes around AI rather than forcing it in

20:10 Human creativity in the age of automation

25:36 How AI has changed client expectations

31:12 Leadership lessons from scaling an AI-driven agency

36:45 The next frontier of digital work

40:30 JP’s advice for agency founders starting their AI journey

43:00 Rapid Fire Questions

JP Holecka is the founder and CEO of Power Shifter Digital, a Vancouver-based agency leading the shift toward AI-driven digital products and content creation. With over 30 years of experience in design, film, and technology, JP has guided multiple agencies through successful AI rollouts—transforming workflows, scaling creativity, and redefining how teams collaborate with generative tools.

https://www.powershifter.com/studio

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jpholecka/

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In episode 135, I sit down with Drew McLellan, CEO of Agency Management Institute and host of the Build a Better Agency podcast. Drew’s been in the business for over 30 years and has coached thousands of agencies on how to grow profitably, attract better clients, and actually enjoy the perks of ownership.

In this conversation, we unpack what the real job of an agency owner is — and how easy it is to get lost in the weeds doing everyone else’s. Drew shares how founders can move from day-to-day chaos to the higher-level work of vision, leadership, and building a pipeline that doesn’t depend on them. We also talk about the mental shift from “founder hustle” to “CEO clarity,” and what it really means to build an agency that serves your life, not the other way around.

Key Bytes

• The three things only the owner can and should do

• Why your agency’s profit tells the truth about your leadership

• Building a self-sustaining pipeline that runs without you

• How to structure your week around the owner’s actual job

• The difference between running an agency and owning a business

• What makes an agency truly “sellable”

• Common traps that keep founders stuck in the weeds

• How to get your time back without losing control

Chapters

00:00 Welcome and Drew’s background

04:12 The evolution from founder to true agency owner

09:45 What the “owner’s actual job” really is

14:58 Why agency profit is a mirror of leadership

20:17 Building systems and pipelines that aren’t you

26:04 The importance of clarity and delegation

31:42 Common mistakes that limit scalability

38:27 How to build an agency that can thrive without you

44:10 Preparing for eventual sale or succession

49:22 Drew’s advice for new and seasoned agency owners

Drew McLellan has worked in advertising for 30+ years and started his own agency, McLellan Marketing Group in 1995 after a five-year stint at Y&R and still actively runs the agency.

He spends the lion’s share of his time running Agency Management Institute (AMI), which he also co-owns/runs with his wife Danyel.

AMI serves thousands of agencies small to mid-sized agencies (advertising, digital, marketing, media and PR) every year, so they can increase their AGI, attract better clients and employees, mitigate the risks of being self-employed in a such volatile business and best of all — let the agency owner actually enjoy the perks of agency ownership.

AMI is the only agency network that is run by an active agency owner. It offers:

Public workshops for agency owners, leaders and account service staff

Owner peer networks (like a Vistage group or 4A’s forums)

Private coaching/consulting for agency owners

Annual primary research with CMOs and client decision makers about their work with agencies

The highly praised podcast Build A Better Agency

The only conference built for small to mid-sized agencies – the Build A Better Agency Summit

Drew often appears in publications like Entrepreneur Magazine, New York Times, Washington Post, Forbes, AdAge, CNN, BusinessWeek, and many others. The Wall Street Journal calls him “one of 10 bloggers every entrepreneur should read.”

He’s also written several books, the most recent being Sell with Authority (January 2020). The latest book has garnered rave reviews and has been the guidebook for agency growth and business development in today’s world.

Drew also speaks at leading agency and marketing conferences like Inbound, Content Marketing World and MAICON and is often cited in agency centric content for his expertise in the industry.

When he’s not hanging out with clients or agency owners and their staff, Drew spends time with his wife, their blended family and following his beloved Dodgers.

http://agencymanagementinstitute.com

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In episode 133, I dive into the real-world path of AI adoption for agencies with guest Kirstin Russ, founder of Principal Edge AI and Mountains to Sea Media. We unpack the four “zones” of adoption (from denial to productized services), why most AI projects fail without structure and change management, and how to turn internal automations into billable client solutions. We also hit on junior-talent pipelines in an AI world, the risk of “robot-trained-by-robots” content, pricing when you’re still learning, and the discovery discipline required to make automations actually stick.

Key Bytes

• The winning agencies move from “dabbling in automations” to selling AI-powered solutions that solve specific client problems.

• 95% of AI projects fail because of missing structure, messy data, and zero change management — fix those first.

• AI should elevate people to higher-value work; train juniors to work with AI, not to be replaced by it.

• Don’t chase every shiny tool; build repeatable agent patterns and a stable stack you trust.

• Discovery is everything: a “15-step” flow usually hides 30 more steps — price and scope accordingly.

• Monetization starts with ops pain: map ugly manual workflows, then automate the “swivel-chair” steps.

• Thought leadership beats generic AI copy: capture founder audio, codify brand voice + ICPs, then assist with AI.

• Profit vs. quality is a real tension — set guardrails so efficiency never erodes outcomes.

Chapters

00:00 Intro & Kirstin’s two businesses

00:57 Why an outsource-first agency model

03:07 Year of deep AI study and first tools “in the wild”

04:43 The four zones of agency AI adoption

06:14 From “getting ahead” to “survive”: disruption hits marketing

09:01 Why AI projects fail: structure, data, and change management

11:00 Practical internal automations (transcripts → CRM, follow-ups, etc.)

12:58 Junior talent in an AI era & the content quality dilemma

15:18 Building an AI content assist system (voice, ICP, research)

18:48 Tool sprawl vs. foundations; avoiding shiny-object traps

20:40 Can clients DIY? Positioning & selling AI services

21:08 Case studies: Square inventory workflow & quote tool

24:38 Pricing while you’re learning; managing expectations

27:18 Aha moments: you can’t do it all; systemize & delegate

29:14 Theme songs, imposter syndrome, and wrap up

Kirstin Russ is a seasoned business strategist with 30 years of cross-industry experience who brings a unique dual approach to business growth. As the founder of Practical Edge AI, she helps businesses leverage artificial intelligence to automate growth, reduce manual workload, and improve profitability—often delivering measurable results within the first week.

Simultaneously, as the driving force behind Mountains to Sea Media, a Western North Carolina-based digital marketing agency, Kirstin helps businesses amplify their online presence through strategic internet marketing, data analytics, and performance-focused web design.

Kirstin's superpower lies in her holistic approach to business analysis, understanding how systems interconnect and where AI can enhance traditional & digital marketing strategies. By combining cutting-edge AI solutions with proven digital marketing expertise, she creates integrated growth pathways that optimize both operations and customer acquisition.

With an approachable style and commitment to practical results, Kirstin transforms business challenges into opportunities. Her guiding question remains: "If you could wave a magic wand and change anything about your business, what would it be?"

https://www.practicaledge.ai/

https://mountainstoseamedia.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/practical-edge-ai/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/mountains-to-sea-media/

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In episode 132, I talk with Leah Leaves, founder of Alderaan Operations Solutions, where she helps remote digital agencies grow without the grind. Known for her no-fluff, systems-first approach, Leah and her team embed expert operations managers directly into agencies to break bottlenecks, reduce burnout, and build businesses that can scale without the founder in every decision.

We dig into what causes owners to become the bottleneck, the difference between goals, systems, and team accountability, and how every agency—no matter the size—can start building a foundation that prevents burnout and supports growth. Leah also shares how to identify when it’s time to bring in an operator, how to delegate effectively, and why even the best creative agencies need structure to thrive. We wrap by exploring how AI fits into internal operations and why every agency needs an AI Ops roadmap, even if it’s just six months ahead.

Key Bytes

• Burnout often begins with unclear goals and missing systems; clarity is the antidote.

• Leah outlines four agency owner archetypes—the Trusting Optimist, Firefighting Founder, Reluctant Gatekeeper, and Visionary Leader—and how operators help each evolve.

• Delegation isn’t dumping tasks; it’s empowering your team with context and ownership.

• Documenting the “why” behind your systems drives consistency and accountability.

• Operators create the scaffolding for scale—allowing founders to focus on vision, not firefighting.

• Every agency, regardless of size, benefits from an AI Ops roadmap to guide internal efficiency.

• Start with what you already have—processes, checklists, or recurring workflows—and build from there.

• Systems don’t kill creativity; they protect it by removing chaos and decision fatigue.

Chapters

00:00 Intro and welcome with guest Leah Leaves, founder of Alderaan Operations Solutions

02:00 The Star Wars origin of “Alderaan” and Leah’s path from journalism to operations

05:30 From creative to systems thinker: finding flow in operations

08:00 How unclear goals and missing systems cause bottlenecks

10:00 Guardrails vs. micromanagement: empowering the team without overengineering

13:00 The burnout cycle and why delegation is a creative act

15:00 The four types of agency owners and their operational challenges

20:00 Shifting from bottleneck to visionary: the operator’s role in scaling

23:30 Why every agency needs an AI ops roadmap

26:30 Putting “robots” in the org chart and making automation work

29:00 Low-hanging AI wins: onboarding, recruiting, and workflow automation

32:00 Rapid-fire Q&A: distilling systems, theme songs, and unexpected client wins

34:45 Closing thoughts and where to find Leah

Leah Leaves is the Founder of Alderaan Operations Solutions, where she helps remote digital marketing agencies grow without the grind. Known for her no-fluff, systems-first approach, she and her team embed expert Operations Managers directly into agencies to break bottlenecks, reduce burnout, and build businesses that can scale without the founder in every decision.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/1eah1eaves/

https://alderaanenterprise.com/

http://agencyownerquiz.com/

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In episode 131, I sit down with Maiya Holliday, founder and CEO of Mangrove Web Development, a Certified B Corp agency that’s been building websites for change-makers since 2009.

Maiya shares her evolution from self-taught coder to agency leader, how she built Mangrove into a values-driven, fully remote team long before it was trendy, and why B Corp certification serves as an operating system rather than a marketing badge.

We dive into the realities of serving nonprofits and purpose-led organizations, how to balance mission and margin, and how AI is reshaping collaboration between designers and developers. Maiya’s insights are both grounding and inspiring for anyone building a business around impact and intention.

Key Bytes

• B Corp certification can provide structure for how an agency operates—not just a label to display.

• Nonprofit clients aren’t “low budget” if you help them tie digital to their mission, revenue, and reach.

• AI is changing agency workflows fast, but curiosity, ethics, and experimentation keep it human.

• Merging two purpose-driven teams isn’t about scale—it’s about shared values and vision.

Mangrove’s evolution shows that you can stay small, focused, and deeply impactful.

Chapters

00:00 Intro: From coder to CEO

01:00 The origin story of Mangrove Web

03:30 Becoming a Certified B Corp

06:00 Lessons from the certification process

09:00 Staying accountable to B Corp principles

11:00 How competition has evolved in the B Corp space

14:30 Why Mangrove focuses on nonprofits & foundations

17:30 Pricing and positioning in the nonprofit world

20:00 The role of AI in Mangrove’s workflow

23:00 How design and dev are converging

27:30 Internal AI tooling vs. client-facing tools

30:00 Building trust as a strategic digital advisor

32:20 Rapid fire: remote work, creative parenting, and common myths

34:50 Closing thoughts

Maiya Holliday, CEO and Founder of Mangrove Web Development is a creative leader and collaborator who crafts digital solutions to augment the impact of changemakers. She is a self-taught coder with over a decade of hands-on experience. Maiya aligns folks toward actionable goals that help articulate and communicate their organization’s purpose and impact on the web, with people, planet, purpose and equity at the core. She has led over 200 website projects for changemakers and purpose-driven organizations.

Maiya led Mangrove to become a Certified B Corp in 2016 and has since championed the cause of socially and environmentally conscious businesses deepening their impact. She values working alongside a diverse team of talented people who are passionate about what they do.

A Bay Area native, Maiya now lives in the mountains of Truckee, CA with her husband Shaun and little humans Terner and Miles. You might also find her in Oakland or Australia, where she tends to show up a regular basis.

http://mangrove-web.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/maiyaholliday/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/mangrove-web/

https://www.ai4np.org/

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In episode 130, I sit down with Peter Lang—co-founder of Digital Agency Business and AVA, and longtime agency acquirer—to unpack how agency owners can use M&A as a growth superpower. Peter shares the seven-day deal that doubled his agency’s revenue, the due-diligence signals that actually matter (talent, client stickiness, and contracts), why most M&A fails on culture not math, and how AI is reshaping hiring and service models. We also get into founder identity after the sale, what “professional maturity” looks like, and why many owners are really capital allocators in the making.

Key Bytes

• M&A can compress years of organic growth into months—if you underwrite people, clients, and terms before the numbers.

• Culture fit and integration planning beat fancy spreadsheets; most failed deals are value misalignment, not valuation.

• AI is wiping out entry-level tasks first; the winners redeploy A-players and teach clients how to use AI, not hide from it.

• Founder-led sales can’t be the only engine; build repeatable sales capacity that survives distractions.

• You already “work for” whoever pays you—selling changes the customer, not your agency DNA.

• Treat time like capital: budget it, forecast it, and review it like an effective executive.

Chapters

00:00 Cold open, quick re-intro

01:08 The seven-day deal that doubled revenue

03:32 Doing three deals in 90 days during COVID

06:36 Common seller misconceptions and Peter’s deal lens

09:19 Endurance mindset, calendars, and operating like an athlete

13:46 What buyers actually look for beyond the numbers

17:43 AI’s impact on talent, delivery, and survival to 2027

22:10 Life after the sale and “professional maturity”

24:51 Rapid fire: celebrating wins, the race that changed him, dream acquisition

27:45 Where to learn more (digitalagencybusiness.com)

Resources mentioned

• Effective Executive by Peter Drucker (time tracking and retrospective)

• GrowthHackers community (context on Peter’s portfolio)

• digitalagencybusiness.com (Peter’s M&A training and upcoming book)

Peter Lang is an entrepreneur, investor, and philanthropist with over 15 years of experience building, buying, and selling companies across online publishing, media, advertising, e-commerce, and consulting. He’s the co-founder and Chief M&A Officer at AVA, a fast-growing digital agency holding company acquiring businesses in the $1–10 million range.

Peter also runs Digital Agency Business (DAB), an e-learning company that trains entrepreneurs to launch and scale their own agencies. A former CEO of Uhuru Network and advisor to multiple companies, Peter’s passion lies in using mergers and acquisitions to accelerate growth. An endurance athlete and family man, he lives by the belief that anything is achievable with hard work.

Contact Peter:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterclang/

https://digitalagencybusiness.com/

In episode 128, I sit down with Logan Lyles, founder of DemandShift and longtime B2B sales and marketing pro. Logan’s career has spanned brand side, agency side, and now his own consultancy—giving him a unique perspective on what it really takes to grow pipeline.

We unpack his journey from scaling Sweet Fish Media to Inc. 5000 status, building the Agency Life series at Teamwork, and leading growth at Business Builders. Most importantly, Logan shares how he turned disappointing webinar results into a repeatable framework that consistently converts registrations into booked sales calls.

If you’ve ever run a webinar that felt like a win… until the dreaded “conversion cliff,” this episode gives you the practical, step-by-step fixes to turn those views into revenue.

Key Bytes

• Logan explains how most agencies fall into the “conversion cliff” trap—lots of registrants, little pipeline—and the two-part fix that changed everything.

• He shares the importance of packaging your expertise into a clear framework that creates a natural next step.

• We break down his two-step registration process that boosted webinar conversions by 5–10x.

• We compare free vs. paid events, what impacts show-up rates, and which strategy works best for agencies.

• We talk about how webinars double as content engines for thought leadership and trust building.

• Logan shares why solopreneurs and 20-person agencies alike can adapt this strategy with the right tech stack.

• He opens up about lessons learned in sales—why not every “yes” is worth chasing.

Chapters

00:02 Intro to Logan Lyles and Demand Shift

01:14 Logan’s meandering career path from journalism to sales to agency life

03:09 Lessons from scaling Sweet Fish Media and leading growth at Business Builders

06:44 Why referrals aren’t enough for agencies anymore

07:28 The “conversion cliff” of webinars and how Logan fixed it

09:48 The two-step registration process that boosted conversions 5–10x

12:59 Free vs. paid webinars: show rates, signups, and strategy

15:57 Webinars as thought-leadership engines and content machines

19:11 Blending demand gen with brand building for faster sales cycles

23:02 Rethinking webinars: live podcasts, polls, and engagement tactics

27:08 Sales lessons: why not every yes is worth chasing

27:50 Wrap-up and where to find Logan (demandshift.co)

Logan Lyles has spent 17 years in B2B sales & marketing, drawing on his journalism background & working both agency- and brand-side in various roles. He has helped multiple agencies scale, including helping lead Sweet Fish Media onto the Inc 5,000 List 2 years in a row & increasing Business Builders monthly email list growth by 580% in 2024.

Logan is the founder of DemandShift, a webinar-as-a-service agency, the co-host of the weekly podcast: The Marketing Max Show & a LinkedIn Top Voice.

http://demandshift.co

http://linkedin.com/in/loganlyles

In episode 127, I talk with Kelly Schuknecht, founder of Two Mile High Marketing and host of the Beyond the Best Seller podcast. Kelly shares her journey from being laid off to launching her agency, how she quickly built a team, and why she’s focused on helping agency owners and CEOs grow through thought leadership platforms. We dig into what I call The Agency Owner’s Visibility Plan—a repeatable system of podcasts, stages, and LinkedIn that helps agencies build authority, stay top-of-mind, and consistently attract clients.

Key Bytes

• The Agency Owner’s Visibility Plan comes down to visibility, credibility, and consistency.

• Trusting yourself to leap without a safety net accelerates growth.

• Niching disqualifies the wrong buyers while pulling in the right ones.

• Visibility means showing up where your audience already is.

• Credibility is built in a snap judgment—package your proof.

• Consistency matters more than volume—set a realistic cadence.

• Every podcast interview can fuel a month’s worth of content.

• Delegating early unlocks owner time for actual growth work.

• In-person events still beat virtual for relationship building.

Chapters

00:00 Introducing Kelly and the story behind “Two Mile High”

03:30 From acquisition layoff to launching an agency

06:45 Why she pivoted away from “fractional CMO”

09:55 The challenge and power of niching down

13:50 Hiring early and delegating with trust

16:20 The Visibility–Credibility–Consistency framework

19:55 A realistic cadence for LinkedIn, podcasts, and speaking

24:10 In-person vs. virtual events and AI’s limitations

26:45 Rapid Fire: superpowers, lessons learned, and marketing myths

Kelly Schuknecht is the founder of Two Mile High Marketing, where she partners with agency owners and business leaders to build powerful thought leadership platforms. With over 15 years of marketing experience and a track record of elevating brands from behind the scenes, Kelly now helps experts step into the spotlight through strategic content, visibility tactics, and authentic personal branding. She’s the host of Beyond the Bestseller, a podcast featuring women who use their stories to lead.

www.twomilehighmarketing.com

www.kellyschuknecht.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellyschuknecht/