In episode 133, I dive into the real-world path of AI adoption for agencies with guest Kirstin Russ, founder of Principal Edge AI and Mountains to Sea Media. We unpack the four “zones” of adoption (from denial to productized services), why most AI projects fail without structure and change management, and how to turn internal automations into billable client solutions. We also hit on junior-talent pipelines in an AI world, the risk of “robot-trained-by-robots” content, pricing when you’re still learning, and the discovery discipline required to make automations actually stick.

Key Bytes

• The winning agencies move from “dabbling in automations” to selling AI-powered solutions that solve specific client problems.

• 95% of AI projects fail because of missing structure, messy data, and zero change management — fix those first.

• AI should elevate people to higher-value work; train juniors to work with AI, not to be replaced by it.

• Don’t chase every shiny tool; build repeatable agent patterns and a stable stack you trust.

• Discovery is everything: a “15-step” flow usually hides 30 more steps — price and scope accordingly.

• Monetization starts with ops pain: map ugly manual workflows, then automate the “swivel-chair” steps.

• Thought leadership beats generic AI copy: capture founder audio, codify brand voice + ICPs, then assist with AI.

• Profit vs. quality is a real tension — set guardrails so efficiency never erodes outcomes.

Chapters

00:00 Intro & Kirstin’s two businesses

00:57 Why an outsource-first agency model

03:07 Year of deep AI study and first tools “in the wild”

04:43 The four zones of agency AI adoption

06:14 From “getting ahead” to “survive”: disruption hits marketing

09:01 Why AI projects fail: structure, data, and change management

11:00 Practical internal automations (transcripts → CRM, follow-ups, etc.)

12:58 Junior talent in an AI era & the content quality dilemma

15:18 Building an AI content assist system (voice, ICP, research)

18:48 Tool sprawl vs. foundations; avoiding shiny-object traps

20:40 Can clients DIY? Positioning & selling AI services

21:08 Case studies: Square inventory workflow & quote tool

24:38 Pricing while you’re learning; managing expectations

27:18 Aha moments: you can’t do it all; systemize & delegate

29:14 Theme songs, imposter syndrome, and wrap up

Kirstin Russ is a seasoned business strategist with 30 years of cross-industry experience who brings a unique dual approach to business growth. As the founder of Practical Edge AI, she helps businesses leverage artificial intelligence to automate growth, reduce manual workload, and improve profitability—often delivering measurable results within the first week.

Simultaneously, as the driving force behind Mountains to Sea Media, a Western North Carolina-based digital marketing agency, Kirstin helps businesses amplify their online presence through strategic internet marketing, data analytics, and performance-focused web design.

Kirstin's superpower lies in her holistic approach to business analysis, understanding how systems interconnect and where AI can enhance traditional & digital marketing strategies. By combining cutting-edge AI solutions with proven digital marketing expertise, she creates integrated growth pathways that optimize both operations and customer acquisition.

With an approachable style and commitment to practical results, Kirstin transforms business challenges into opportunities. Her guiding question remains: "If you could wave a magic wand and change anything about your business, what would it be?"

https://www.practicaledge.ai/

https://mountainstoseamedia.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/practical-edge-ai/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/mountains-to-sea-media/

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In episode 132, I talk with Leah Leaves, founder of Alderaan Operations Solutions, where she helps remote digital agencies grow without the grind. Known for her no-fluff, systems-first approach, Leah and her team embed expert operations managers directly into agencies to break bottlenecks, reduce burnout, and build businesses that can scale without the founder in every decision.

We dig into what causes owners to become the bottleneck, the difference between goals, systems, and team accountability, and how every agency—no matter the size—can start building a foundation that prevents burnout and supports growth. Leah also shares how to identify when it’s time to bring in an operator, how to delegate effectively, and why even the best creative agencies need structure to thrive. We wrap by exploring how AI fits into internal operations and why every agency needs an AI Ops roadmap, even if it’s just six months ahead.

Key Bytes

• Burnout often begins with unclear goals and missing systems; clarity is the antidote.

• Leah outlines four agency owner archetypes—the Trusting Optimist, Firefighting Founder, Reluctant Gatekeeper, and Visionary Leader—and how operators help each evolve.

• Delegation isn’t dumping tasks; it’s empowering your team with context and ownership.

• Documenting the “why” behind your systems drives consistency and accountability.

• Operators create the scaffolding for scale—allowing founders to focus on vision, not firefighting.

• Every agency, regardless of size, benefits from an AI Ops roadmap to guide internal efficiency.

• Start with what you already have—processes, checklists, or recurring workflows—and build from there.

• Systems don’t kill creativity; they protect it by removing chaos and decision fatigue.

Chapters

00:00 Intro and welcome with guest Leah Leaves, founder of Alderaan Operations Solutions

02:00 The Star Wars origin of “Alderaan” and Leah’s path from journalism to operations

05:30 From creative to systems thinker: finding flow in operations

08:00 How unclear goals and missing systems cause bottlenecks

10:00 Guardrails vs. micromanagement: empowering the team without overengineering

13:00 The burnout cycle and why delegation is a creative act

15:00 The four types of agency owners and their operational challenges

20:00 Shifting from bottleneck to visionary: the operator’s role in scaling

23:30 Why every agency needs an AI ops roadmap

26:30 Putting “robots” in the org chart and making automation work

29:00 Low-hanging AI wins: onboarding, recruiting, and workflow automation

32:00 Rapid-fire Q&A: distilling systems, theme songs, and unexpected client wins

34:45 Closing thoughts and where to find Leah

Leah Leaves is the Founder of Alderaan Operations Solutions, where she helps remote digital marketing agencies grow without the grind. Known for her no-fluff, systems-first approach, she and her team embed expert Operations Managers directly into agencies to break bottlenecks, reduce burnout, and build businesses that can scale without the founder in every decision.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/1eah1eaves/

https://alderaanenterprise.com/

http://agencyownerquiz.com/

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In episode 131, I sit down with Maiya Holliday, founder and CEO of Mangrove Web Development, a Certified B Corp agency that’s been building websites for change-makers since 2009.

Maiya shares her evolution from self-taught coder to agency leader, how she built Mangrove into a values-driven, fully remote team long before it was trendy, and why B Corp certification serves as an operating system rather than a marketing badge.

We dive into the realities of serving nonprofits and purpose-led organizations, how to balance mission and margin, and how AI is reshaping collaboration between designers and developers. Maiya’s insights are both grounding and inspiring for anyone building a business around impact and intention.

Key Bytes

• B Corp certification can provide structure for how an agency operates—not just a label to display.

• Nonprofit clients aren’t “low budget” if you help them tie digital to their mission, revenue, and reach.

• AI is changing agency workflows fast, but curiosity, ethics, and experimentation keep it human.

• Merging two purpose-driven teams isn’t about scale—it’s about shared values and vision.

Mangrove’s evolution shows that you can stay small, focused, and deeply impactful.

Chapters

00:00 Intro: From coder to CEO

01:00 The origin story of Mangrove Web

03:30 Becoming a Certified B Corp

06:00 Lessons from the certification process

09:00 Staying accountable to B Corp principles

11:00 How competition has evolved in the B Corp space

14:30 Why Mangrove focuses on nonprofits & foundations

17:30 Pricing and positioning in the nonprofit world

20:00 The role of AI in Mangrove’s workflow

23:00 How design and dev are converging

27:30 Internal AI tooling vs. client-facing tools

30:00 Building trust as a strategic digital advisor

32:20 Rapid fire: remote work, creative parenting, and common myths

34:50 Closing thoughts

Maiya Holliday, CEO and Founder of Mangrove Web Development is a creative leader and collaborator who crafts digital solutions to augment the impact of changemakers. She is a self-taught coder with over a decade of hands-on experience. Maiya aligns folks toward actionable goals that help articulate and communicate their organization’s purpose and impact on the web, with people, planet, purpose and equity at the core. She has led over 200 website projects for changemakers and purpose-driven organizations.

Maiya led Mangrove to become a Certified B Corp in 2016 and has since championed the cause of socially and environmentally conscious businesses deepening their impact. She values working alongside a diverse team of talented people who are passionate about what they do.

A Bay Area native, Maiya now lives in the mountains of Truckee, CA with her husband Shaun and little humans Terner and Miles. You might also find her in Oakland or Australia, where she tends to show up a regular basis.

http://mangrove-web.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/maiyaholliday/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/mangrove-web/

https://www.ai4np.org/

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In episode 130, I sit down with Peter Lang—co-founder of Digital Agency Business and AVA, and longtime agency acquirer—to unpack how agency owners can use M&A as a growth superpower. Peter shares the seven-day deal that doubled his agency’s revenue, the due-diligence signals that actually matter (talent, client stickiness, and contracts), why most M&A fails on culture not math, and how AI is reshaping hiring and service models. We also get into founder identity after the sale, what “professional maturity” looks like, and why many owners are really capital allocators in the making.

Key Bytes

• M&A can compress years of organic growth into months—if you underwrite people, clients, and terms before the numbers.

• Culture fit and integration planning beat fancy spreadsheets; most failed deals are value misalignment, not valuation.

• AI is wiping out entry-level tasks first; the winners redeploy A-players and teach clients how to use AI, not hide from it.

• Founder-led sales can’t be the only engine; build repeatable sales capacity that survives distractions.

• You already “work for” whoever pays you—selling changes the customer, not your agency DNA.

• Treat time like capital: budget it, forecast it, and review it like an effective executive.

Chapters

00:00 Cold open, quick re-intro

01:08 The seven-day deal that doubled revenue

03:32 Doing three deals in 90 days during COVID

06:36 Common seller misconceptions and Peter’s deal lens

09:19 Endurance mindset, calendars, and operating like an athlete

13:46 What buyers actually look for beyond the numbers

17:43 AI’s impact on talent, delivery, and survival to 2027

22:10 Life after the sale and “professional maturity”

24:51 Rapid fire: celebrating wins, the race that changed him, dream acquisition

27:45 Where to learn more (digitalagencybusiness.com)

Resources mentioned

• Effective Executive by Peter Drucker (time tracking and retrospective)

• GrowthHackers community (context on Peter’s portfolio)

• digitalagencybusiness.com (Peter’s M&A training and upcoming book)

Peter Lang is an entrepreneur, investor, and philanthropist with over 15 years of experience building, buying, and selling companies across online publishing, media, advertising, e-commerce, and consulting. He’s the co-founder and Chief M&A Officer at AVA, a fast-growing digital agency holding company acquiring businesses in the $1–10 million range.

Peter also runs Digital Agency Business (DAB), an e-learning company that trains entrepreneurs to launch and scale their own agencies. A former CEO of Uhuru Network and advisor to multiple companies, Peter’s passion lies in using mergers and acquisitions to accelerate growth. An endurance athlete and family man, he lives by the belief that anything is achievable with hard work.

Contact Peter:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterclang/

https://digitalagencybusiness.com/

In episode 128, I sit down with Logan Lyles, founder of DemandShift and longtime B2B sales and marketing pro. Logan’s career has spanned brand side, agency side, and now his own consultancy—giving him a unique perspective on what it really takes to grow pipeline.

We unpack his journey from scaling Sweet Fish Media to Inc. 5000 status, building the Agency Life series at Teamwork, and leading growth at Business Builders. Most importantly, Logan shares how he turned disappointing webinar results into a repeatable framework that consistently converts registrations into booked sales calls.

If you’ve ever run a webinar that felt like a win… until the dreaded “conversion cliff,” this episode gives you the practical, step-by-step fixes to turn those views into revenue.

Key Bytes

• Logan explains how most agencies fall into the “conversion cliff” trap—lots of registrants, little pipeline—and the two-part fix that changed everything.

• He shares the importance of packaging your expertise into a clear framework that creates a natural next step.

• We break down his two-step registration process that boosted webinar conversions by 5–10x.

• We compare free vs. paid events, what impacts show-up rates, and which strategy works best for agencies.

• We talk about how webinars double as content engines for thought leadership and trust building.

• Logan shares why solopreneurs and 20-person agencies alike can adapt this strategy with the right tech stack.

• He opens up about lessons learned in sales—why not every “yes” is worth chasing.

Chapters

00:02 Intro to Logan Lyles and Demand Shift

01:14 Logan’s meandering career path from journalism to sales to agency life

03:09 Lessons from scaling Sweet Fish Media and leading growth at Business Builders

06:44 Why referrals aren’t enough for agencies anymore

07:28 The “conversion cliff” of webinars and how Logan fixed it

09:48 The two-step registration process that boosted conversions 5–10x

12:59 Free vs. paid webinars: show rates, signups, and strategy

15:57 Webinars as thought-leadership engines and content machines

19:11 Blending demand gen with brand building for faster sales cycles

23:02 Rethinking webinars: live podcasts, polls, and engagement tactics

27:08 Sales lessons: why not every yes is worth chasing

27:50 Wrap-up and where to find Logan (demandshift.co)

Logan Lyles has spent 17 years in B2B sales & marketing, drawing on his journalism background & working both agency- and brand-side in various roles. He has helped multiple agencies scale, including helping lead Sweet Fish Media onto the Inc 5,000 List 2 years in a row & increasing Business Builders monthly email list growth by 580% in 2024.

Logan is the founder of DemandShift, a webinar-as-a-service agency, the co-host of the weekly podcast: The Marketing Max Show & a LinkedIn Top Voice.

http://demandshift.co

http://linkedin.com/in/loganlyles

In episode 127, I talk with Kelly Schuknecht, founder of Two Mile High Marketing and host of the Beyond the Best Seller podcast. Kelly shares her journey from being laid off to launching her agency, how she quickly built a team, and why she’s focused on helping agency owners and CEOs grow through thought leadership platforms. We dig into what I call The Agency Owner’s Visibility Plan—a repeatable system of podcasts, stages, and LinkedIn that helps agencies build authority, stay top-of-mind, and consistently attract clients.

Key Bytes

• The Agency Owner’s Visibility Plan comes down to visibility, credibility, and consistency.

• Trusting yourself to leap without a safety net accelerates growth.

• Niching disqualifies the wrong buyers while pulling in the right ones.

• Visibility means showing up where your audience already is.

• Credibility is built in a snap judgment—package your proof.

• Consistency matters more than volume—set a realistic cadence.

• Every podcast interview can fuel a month’s worth of content.

• Delegating early unlocks owner time for actual growth work.

• In-person events still beat virtual for relationship building.

Chapters

00:00 Introducing Kelly and the story behind “Two Mile High”

03:30 From acquisition layoff to launching an agency

06:45 Why she pivoted away from “fractional CMO”

09:55 The challenge and power of niching down

13:50 Hiring early and delegating with trust

16:20 The Visibility–Credibility–Consistency framework

19:55 A realistic cadence for LinkedIn, podcasts, and speaking

24:10 In-person vs. virtual events and AI’s limitations

26:45 Rapid Fire: superpowers, lessons learned, and marketing myths

Kelly Schuknecht is the founder of Two Mile High Marketing, where she partners with agency owners and business leaders to build powerful thought leadership platforms. With over 15 years of marketing experience and a track record of elevating brands from behind the scenes, Kelly now helps experts step into the spotlight through strategic content, visibility tactics, and authentic personal branding. She’s the host of Beyond the Bestseller, a podcast featuring women who use their stories to lead.

www.twomilehighmarketing.com

www.kellyschuknecht.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellyschuknecht/

In episode 126, I sit down with Meeky Hwang, CEO and partner at Endeavor, a WordPress development agency powering digital platforms for major media and enterprise brands like Bloomberg, Forbes, and Sony. With over two decades of experience in development and DevOps, Meeky has built Endeavor into a trusted name in the WordPress ecosystem while also paving the way as a female leader in tech.

We talk about her accidental journey into agency ownership, what it’s like leading in an industry where women are still underrepresented, and how Endeavor built its three-pillar framework for resilient platforms. Meeky shares candid insights on navigating partnerships, the challenges of “over-engineering” with headless CMS, and the importance of masterminds and community for entrepreneurs.

Key Bytes

• Meeky shares how an “accidental” freelance project led to a decade-long partnership and agency.

• She discusses the importance of having clear role delineation with her co-founder to avoid missteps.

• Endeavor’s three-pillar framework (audience experience, editorial experience, developer experience) keeps their platforms resilient.

• She explains why many publishers are moving away from over-engineered headless CMS solutions back to WordPress.

• As a female leader in tech, she reflects on mentorship, representation, and inspiring others by simply “being the first.”

• She stresses the value of mastermind groups for growth and support, something she wishes she’d pursued earlier.

• Endeavor is exploring AI to streamline workflows and even testing new content tools for clients.

• Her advice for organizations: implement proper version control and CI/CD to avoid preventable tech mistakes.

Chapters

00:00 Welcome and introduction to Meeky Hwang

03:00 Becoming an “accidental” agency founder

07:00 Women in tech and leadership representation

11:00 Why Endeavor niched into WordPress and media

12:30 The three-pillar framework for resilient platforms

15:00 Headless CMS pitfalls and returning to WordPress

18:00 Navigating co-founder roles and partnerships

23:00 AI, internal tools, and what’s next for Endeavor

25:00 The power of masterminds for entrepreneurs

27:00 Rapid fire: karaoke, hobbies, and tech stack fixes

Meeky Hwang is the CEO & Partner at Ndevr, a WordPress development agency trusted by leading digital media and enterprise companies. With 20+ years of experience in web development, open-source technology, and DevOps, she specializes in optimizing complex digital ecosystems, streamlining editorial workflows, and aligning technology with business goals.

Meeky has helped major brands like PMC, Hearst, Bloomberg, Forbes, and Sony build scalable, high-performing digital platforms. A champion for women in tech, she is passionate about fostering opportunities for the next generation of leaders.

Contact Meeky on their website: ndevr.io

In episode 125, I sit down with Dolores Hirschmann, investor, strategist, and founder of Masters in Clarity. Dolores has built, scaled, and sold businesses—including one to Pete Vargas and Grant Cardone after growing it to eight figures. A former TEDx organizer, she now helps service professionals and thought leaders clarify their message, craft high-converting signature talks, and get booked on stages that drive real business results. We explore her journey from early internet marketing in Argentina to launching an outbound speaker agency, and she shares her framework for creating talks that convert, practical tips for pitching event organizers, and why thought leadership is still one of the most powerful growth levers for agencies.

Key Bytes

• Thought leadership isn’t about celebrity—it’s about clarity and consistency

• A great talk is less about what you say and more about what your audience walks away with

• Don’t pitch event organizers with long bios—open the door with a simple yes/no question

• The best call-to-action from stage isn’t a free consultation, it’s a free resource tied to your talk

• A signature talk framework can be applied to any presentation—keynote, workshop, or boardroom update

• Speaking is one of the most scalable ways to build trust, demonstrate expertise, and generate new business

Chapters

00:00 Welcome and introduction to Dolores Hirschmann

01:18 Early internet marketing and human-to-human relationships

04:58 Moving to the U.S. and pioneering online learning platforms

06:26 From serial entrepreneur to coach and strategist

08:19 Organizing TEDx and developing the signature talk framework

11:26 Building and scaling a speaker agency to $20M+

14:29 Why agencies need to lean into speaking and thought leadership

15:44 Practical steps to land more speaking opportunities

20:07 The seven steps of a high-converting talk

23:24 How to craft calls-to-action that drive leads from stage

25:23 Using QR codes and free resources to capture audience interest

26:25 Masters in Clarity workshops and software for speakers

27:02 Rapid fire: tap dancing, gut instincts, and buying businesses

Dolores Hirschmann is an investor, strategist, speaker, and founder of Masters in Clarity, a strategy and business coaching firm. She helps service professionals grow their businesses and establish thought leadership. A former TEDx organizer, she specializes in positioning experts, authors, consultants, and coaches for success.

Dolores recently sold a company to Pete Vargas and Grant Cardone, supporting its growth to multiple 8 figures in four years. She built a software platform to help speakers get placed on stages and advises businesses on preparing for profitable exits. Masters in Clarity provides fractional Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) services to help companies design and execute marketing initiatives and set up automated marketing systems. As an investor, Dolores acquires and scales small businesses, ensuring their legacy and long-term success.

www.mastersinclarity.com

In episode 124, I sit down with Joe Rojas, founder of Start Grow Manage and author of How Entrepreneurs Thrive. Joe has built and sold multiple MSPs, each time leveraging the power of deep niching to accelerate growth. We talk about the pivotal inflection points in a business’s lifecycle, why niching works across any industry, and how systems and values create businesses that can run—and grow—without the owner. Joe shares his framework for moving from “job” to “business,” the core values that drive his work, and how agencies can increase profitability by solving real business problems for clients. We also discuss the parallels between MSPs and agencies when it comes to client retention, lifetime value, and building a life you actually want to live.

Key Bytes

• Niching accelerates growth because it clarifies your offer and your audience

• The difference between a lifestyle job and a lifestyle business is scale and delegation

• Core values must be discovered, not invented—and hiring should be based on them

• Profitability can start with your existing clients, not just new ones

• Long-term success comes from solving clients’ business problems, not just delivering services

Chapters

00:00 Welcome and guest intro

01:06 Joe’s journey from the Army to building and selling MSPs

03:18 Understanding the “Start, Grow, Manage” stages

05:03 Why Joe wrote How Entrepreneurs Thrive

06:33 The $1M inflection point and profitability mindset

08:16 Helping clients reclaim their time and freedom

12:20 Building core values that drive the business

16:46 Hiring for abundance mindset and cultural fit

21:07 How Joe’s book applies to agencies today

24:07 Why technology changes but strategy doesn’t

26:08 Expanding accounts by solving deeper problems

28:37 Mapping the client journey for better results

30:21 Rapid fire questions and closing thoughts

Joe is the Founder at Start Grow Manage, based in New York, and author of How Entrepreneurs Thrive. He empowers Managed Service Providers and entrepreneurs to overcome the challenges of business formation to create profitable, growing businesses. As a serial entrepreneur himself, he has faced the challenge of making new and growing businesses work. His career started in the military, where he became an expert in information technology, eventually forming his own managed services company. Through that experience, he discovered the formula for businesses and learned that entrepreneurs are good at what they do but struggle to build a business.

https://startgrowmanage.com

In episode 123, I sit down with Jenny Plant, founder of Account Management Skills, to talk about why strong account management is the secret weapon for agency growth. Drawing on over 25 years of experience on both the agency and client side, Jenny shares how she helps account managers develop the skills, confidence, and mindset to grow accounts without feeling “salesy.” We discuss the challenges of hybrid AM/PM roles, how to spot rising account management stars, and why curiosity and relationship skills often outweigh industry knowledge. Jenny also dives into her “Four P’s” of AI for account managers—Productivity, Personalization, Prescribe, and Predict—showing how technology can boost proactivity and client value. We wrap with insights on setting growth targets, charging for account management, and building a culture that celebrates account wins as much as new business.

Key Bytes

• Account growth starts with training AMs to be proactive, not just reactive service providers

• Hybrid AM/PM roles often fail to drive growth because delivery takes priority over development

• Curiosity and relationship skills can be more valuable than industry expertise

• AI can help AMs be more productive, personalize interactions, prescribe solutions, and predict client needs

• Co-creating growth targets with AMs boosts buy-in and accuracy

• Celebrating account growth fosters a culture where client retention and expansion matter as much as net new business

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Jenny Plant & Account Management Skills

02:20 Why sales training is vital for account managers

04:16 The challenge of hybrid AM/PM roles in driving growth

08:58 Traits of successful account managers

11:32 Hiring AMs from outside the agency world

13:14 Jenny’s Four P’s of AI for account managers

18:19 Proactivity and presenting ideas to clients

20:38 Co-creating account growth targets

22:55 Charging for account management services

24:36 How many accounts can one AM manage effectively?

28:15 Creating a culture that celebrates account growth

Jenny Plant is the founder of Account Management Skills a training company helping agency account managers retain client relationships and grow accounts.

Jenny has over 25 years in agency account management and has also worked client-side in marketing for an international airline and pharmaceutical company.

Her account management training programmes blend proven client growth methodologies with the integration of AI tools, helping agencies stay relevant, efficient, and proactive.

She also hosts the Creative Agency Account Manager Podcast, where she shares insights and interviews to elevate the agency-client relationship management standards across the industry.

https://accountmanagementskills.com/

Ep 122 – Arielle Cohen, Business 411 – Building Scalable Systems for a Multi-Seven Figure Agency

In episode 122, I sit down with Ariel Cohn, founder of Marketing 411 and CMO of Business 401, to talk about how she scaled a multi–seven figure agency by going all-in on the roofing niche. Ariel shares why niching transformed their operations, how they built scalable systems and sister companies to serve the industry, and why embracing AI and virtual teams has been key to their growth. We also dive into the mindset shifts required to build an agency that supports your lifestyle — instead of running you into the ground.

Key Bytes

• Niching down creates clarity, repeatable systems, and faster scaling opportunities

• A sister company approach can build trust and open new revenue streams

• Retainer-based models help stabilize cash flow and increase profitability

• Virtual teams and offshore talent can boost efficiency without sacrificing quality

• Embracing AI is no longer optional — it’s essential for agency survival and growth

Chapters

00:01 Intro and Ariel’s background in roofing marketing

01:12 From generalist to roofing specialist: why niching was key

04:44 Myths about niching and lessons from going all-in

07:32 Defining the ideal client profile and setting minimums

09:00 Early challenges and focusing on revenue first

12:34 Building two complementary companies for growth

16:22 Leveraging virtual teams, overseas talent, and AI for scale

19:07 Retainer models vs. one-off projects for stable growth

20:29 Staying hungry and setting bigger goals

23:18 Embracing AI and adapting to industry change

25:10 Rapid fire: worst advice, daily habits, and explaining her job to a 5-year-old

Arielle Cohen is the Co-Founder of Marketing 411 and CMO of Business 411. With over a decade of experience in marketing, she has mastered the art of growing a Multi 7 Figure Agency through building a scalable and efficient operation. As the company grows, her focus has shifted to optimizing her time and building a dream company that supports her vision and lifestyle—without letting the business take over.

www.marketing411.com

www.business411.com

Social: @arielleCEO

Ep 121 – Shawn Johnston, Forge and Smith – Profitable by Design: Streamlining Dev Without Cutting Corners

In episode 121, I sit down with Shawn Johnston, founder of Forge and Smith and creator of Refoundry—a low-code WordPress platform that’s transforming how agencies build and deliver websites. We talk about how Shawn cut delivery time by 70%, turned profit margins around using the Profit First method, and transitioned his agency toward a scalable, productized model. He shares insights on navigating developer pushback, balancing client empowerment with agency control, and preparing for evolving tech shifts like AI in web development. Whether you’re struggling with project bottlenecks, shrinking budgets, or scaling challenges, Shawn’s story offers a clear path forward for building smarter, more profitable systems.

Key Bytes• Refoundry cut Forge and Smith’s development time by 70%, transforming profitability.

• Adopting Profit First changed their approach to pricing and overhead limits.

• Client empowerment through low-code builds loyalty and drives referrals.

• Transitioning leadership allowed Shawn’s team to grow into bigger roles.

• Technological shifts (like Webflow and AI) demand constant agency adaptation.

• Productizing an internal tool opened new revenue streams beyond services.

• Balancing developer pride with client needs is critical for successful adoption.

• Early lessons in print taught Shawn to anticipate and embrace industry change.

Chapters00:01 Introduction to Shawn Johnston and Forge and Smith

02:11 Moving from freelance to full agency and early challenges

04:39 Implementing Profit First and shifting to scalable systems

06:38 Why Refoundry: Bringing low-code to WordPress

08:22 Cutting development time and improving project profitability

11:23 Developer pushback and prioritizing client empowerment

14:44 Evolving Refoundry into a product for other agencies

17:03 Transitioning leadership and building team collaboration

24:17 Preparing for tech shifts like AI and staying nimble in delivery

28:30 Rapid fire questions and final reflections

​​

Shawn Johnston is the founder of Forge and Smith, a digital agency that’s launched over 500 websites in the past 13 years. After hitting the usual delivery bottlenecks and burnout cycles, he built Refoundry—a low-code platform for WordPress that helped his team cut build times by 70% and scale without sacrificing quality. Now he’s on a mission to help other agencies streamline delivery, boost margins, and build systems that actually work.

Contact Shawn:

https://refoundry.io

https://forgeandsmith.com

In episode 116, I sit down with Clara Stedman and Ben Engvall, founding partners of Palmer Advisors, a boutique M&A firm focused on marketing, media, and tech agencies in the lower to middle market. Clara and Ben break down what agency owners need to understand about selling their business, navigating deal structures, and preparing for acquisition—even if an exit isn’t on the immediate horizon.

We talk about why Palmer was founded, the major shifts in deal terms over the last few years, and why so many agency founders are choosing to stay on post-acquisition. They also share candid insights into common red flags that signal an agency isn’t ready to sell—and what to do about it. We dive into how niching (especially by industry) impacts valuation, what kinds of agencies are in high demand, and how AI and proprietary tools may influence future multiples.

Whether you’re dreaming of an exit, fielding buyer interest, or just want to understand how your agency is valued, this episode pulls back the curtain on the M&A process and what today’s buyers really want.

Key Bytes

• Palmer Advisors focuses on M&A for service-based businesses.

• The agency market is evolving with new deal structures.

• Cultural fit is crucial in agency acquisitions.

• Founders should not exit at their peak performance.

• Timing is key when going to market for an exit.

• Having a strong leadership team is essential for agency sales.

• Niche agencies are more attractive to buyers.

• Understanding EBITDA is vital for agency owners.

• Deal structures can be creative and flexible.

• The future of M&A looks promising with technology advancements.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites

01:47 The Formation of Palmer Advisors

03:35 Reflections on the First Year

05:32 Understanding Agency M&A Dynamics

09:23 Identifying Readiness for Exit

13:28 The Importance of Owner Involvement

16:02 The Value of Niching in M&A

19:09 Demystifying M&A Terminology

23:19 Future Trends in M&A

25:11 The Role of IP and Technology in Valuation

28:34 Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts

Clara Stedman and Ben Engvall are the founding partners of Palmer Advisors, a boutique M&A advisory firm built specifically for founders of service-based businesses. With a focus on marketing, media, and tech agencies in the lower to middle market (typically $1–10M in EBITDA), Clara and Ben bring a modern, founder-first approach to buying, selling, and valuing businesses. They’ve quickly built a reputation for their strategic deal-making, brutally honest readiness assessments, and commitment to crafting win-win outcomes that align both financial and cultural goals. Clara leads as CEO, bringing a background in corporate retail and fitness, while Ben heads up M&A with a traditional finance foundation. Together, they’re reshaping what agency exits can—and should—look like.

Contact Palmer Advisors: 

http://palmeradvisors.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/clara-stedman-palmer-advisors/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-engvall-palmer-advisors/

In episode 115, I sit down with Jason Hennessey, internationally recognized SEO expert and CEO of Hennessey Digital. Jason shares the story of how a single talk at a legal mastermind sparked his first agency, and how he’s since scaled a powerhouse SEO firm serving top-tier law firms. We talk about niching down, the power of building a personal brand, and why delegation was key to scaling without burning out. Jason opens up about leadership, team culture, and how stepping back actually helped his agency grow faster. Plus, we dive into strategies like direct mail, personal outreach, and even outsourcing genius to level up results.

Key Bytes

• Jason Hennessy has been in SEO since 2001 and started his first agency in 2008.

• He transitioned from his first agency to Hennessy Digital in 2015, focusing on law firms.

• Innovative marketing strategies, like sending personalized books, helped him secure clients.

• Hennessy Digital primarily serves personal injury lawyers but sees potential in other legal niches.

• Building a personal brand has significantly increased response rates to his outreach.

• Delegation and outsourcing are key to scaling an agency effectively.

• Jason emphasizes the importance of investing in leadership and team development.

• He still engages with SEO on a personal level, leveraging external expertise.

• Agency culture is a priority, fostering support and recognition among team members.

• Asking for help and seeking coaching is crucial for agency owners.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites and Guest Background

01:04 Jason Hennessy's Journey in SEO and Agency Growth

03:55 Transitioning from First Agency to Hennessy Digital

07:00 Innovative Marketing Strategies for Law Firms

10:06 Market Potential and Niche Focus in Legal SEO

11:58 Building a Personal Brand and Leadership Structure

16:01 Scaling the Agency and Delegating Responsibilities

20:03 Passion for SEO and Outsourcing Expertise

23:05 Expanding Services Beyond SEO

24:54 Agency Culture and Team Dynamics

27:04 Personal Insights and Advice for Agency Owners

Jason Hennessey is an entrepreneur, internationally recognized SEO expert, author, speaker, podcast host, and business coach. Since 2001, Jason has been reverse-engineering the Google algorithm as a self-taught student and practitioner of SEO and search marketing.

Jason's expertise has fueled the growth and successful sale of multiple businesses, starting with a pioneering dot-com venture in the wedding industry. Serving as the CEO of Hennessey Digital since 2015, Jason's leadership has transformed a modest consultancy into a thriving eight-figure agency, earning a place on the prestigious Inc. 5000 list for five consecutive years. He is also the author of two Amazon bestsellers titled Law Firm SEO and Honest SEO.

As a sought-after keynote speaker and a frequent guest on podcasts and webinars, Jason shares his wealth of knowledge. He contributes as a columnist to respected publications such as the Washington Post and is a regular contributor to Entrepreneur, Forbes, Inc., Newsweek, and Rolling Stone Magazine. Jason's accomplishments extend to being honored with the Gold TITAN Business Award in the Entrepreneurship, Branding, Advertising, & Marketing category, as well as being recognized as a National Law Review Go-To Thought Leader.

Jason's journey has been enriched by his experience as a United States Air Force veteran and his attainment of a Bachelor of Arts degree in Marketing from the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Commencing his SEO career in Las Vegas and later establishing a strong presence in the legal industry in Atlanta, Jason now resides in the Los Angeles area with his wife, Bridget, and their three children.

jasonhennessey.com

hennessey.com

https://www.instagram.com/jasonhennessey/?hl=en

Ep 113 – Dr. Jeremy Weisz, Rise25 – The Gift of Podcasting

In episode 113, I sit down with Dr. Jeremy Weisz, co-founder of Rise 25 and host of the Inspired Insider podcast. Jeremy and I talk about how podcasting—when used the right way—can become one of the most effective tools for building real relationships, not just content. He breaks down the Dream 200 strategy for identifying ideal clients, why giving value always beats chasing sales, and how his agency uses both podcasting and strategic gifting to keep top-of-mind with partners and clients. We also dive into how he accidentally became an agency owner, the underrated power of thoughtful gifts, and his take on creating a high-impact referral ecosystem. And yes, we end with some rapid-fire questions—including the surprising mascot he’d pick for his agency.

Key Bytes

• Podcasting is a powerful tool for networking and professional development.

• Building relationships through podcasting can lead to business opportunities.

• The Dream 200 strategy helps identify and target ideal clients.

• Giving away valuable information attracts the right clients.

• Gifting strategies can enhance client engagement and retention.

• Podcasting can serve multiple purposes: authority building, SEO, and content creation.

• Networking through podcasts can create referral partnerships.

• Understanding your niche is crucial for effective marketing.

• Regular touchpoints with clients through gifts can strengthen relationships.

• Consider the source of business advice before acting on it.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Podcasting and Rise 25

02:52 The Evolution of Podcasting and Its Benefits

05:47 Building Relationships Through Podcasting

09:10 The Dream 200 Strategy for Targeting Clients

11:53 Gifting Strategies for Client Engagement

14:54 Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts

Dr. Jeremy Weisz has been featuring top entrepreneurs with video interviews since 2008 that include founders/CEOs of Pixar, P90X, Atari, Einstein Bagels, Mattel, Kettle Chips, RX Bars, Big League Chew, the Orlando Magic, and many more on www.InspiredInsider.com

He runs Rise25 which helps B2B businesses connect to their ‘Dream 200’ clients, and referral partners and get ROI, using a podcast. They eliminate 99% of the work and make sure you get ROI. Rise25 is an easy button for you to launch and run your podcast.

Podcasting has been one of the best things I've done both personally and professionally. It's been an amazing tool for connecting with referral partners, strategic partners, clients, and more.

Podcasting is like a "Swiss Army knife" because it is business development, referral marketing, strategic partnerships, lead generation, SEO, content creation, and personal and professional development, all in one.

Contact Dr. Weisz:

https://rise25.com/

Ep 114 – Courtney De Ronde,  Forge Financial – Unlocking Business Growth

In episode 114, I sit down with Courtney De Ronde, CEO of Forge Financial and Management Consulting, to talk about the powerful intersection of financial visibility and leadership growth. Courtney shares her journey from CPA to strategic business advisor, and we dig into her Simple Scale Up System—a framework designed to help agency leaders evolve from scrappy doers to scalable CEOs.

We explore the importance of accurate revenue recognition, the dangers of relying too heavily on gut instincts, and the mindset shifts needed to lead at the next level. Courtney also gets candid about AI’s impact on the accounting industry and why embracing technology is a must—not a maybe. We wrap things up with some rapid-fire questions that reveal the human side of this numbers expert.

Key Bytes

• Courtney De Ronde has over 20 years of experience as a CPA.

• Understanding financial visibility is crucial for business growth.

• AI presents both challenges and opportunities in the CPA industry.

• The Simple Scale Up System focuses on scaling leaders and organizations.

• Leaders must shift from relying on instincts to leveraging insights.

• Cash flow issues often indicate deeper business problems.

• Delegation and trust are essential for scaling a business.

• Learning from others' failures can accelerate growth.

• Financial reporting should match revenue with related expenses.

• Things don't have to be perfect to be effective.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites and Guest Background

01:04 Courtney's Evolution from CPA to Business Leader

03:19 Understanding Financial Visibility and Coaching Services

04:12 Common Financial Red Flags in Service-Based Businesses

08:06 The Impact of AI on the CPA Industry

12:25 The Simple Scale Up System Framework

15:46 Shifting Mindsets: From Instincts to Insights

22:53 Challenges in Scaling Dependent Businesses

25:13 Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts

Courtney De Ronde is the CEO of Forge Financial & Management Consulting and the creator of the Simple ScaleUp System™. With over 20 years as a CPA and 15 years in business

leadership, Courtney specializes in guiding small businesses from startup to scaleup. She’s an expert in business intelligence, leadership, and corporate finance. We’re thrilled to have her share her insights on how you can achieve your most ambitious goals.

Take our free Business Intelligence Grader to gain visibility within their business

https://www.forgeahead.com/business-intelligence-grader/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/drweisz/

In episode 097 of Agency Bytes, I had the pleasure of speaking with Matthew Fox, a project leader, trainer, and operations consultant who specializes in conscious leadership and helping teams work better together.

Matthew opened up about his personal journey with imposter syndrome and how it led him to dive deep into self-development. Over the years, he’s explored frameworks like The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership and the Drama Triangle, which have shaped how he approaches leadership and team dynamics.

One of the biggest takeaways from our conversation? Project managers often spot cultural issues before leadership does. If your projects are struggling, it’s probably not just an execution problem—it’s a reflection of your agency’s culture

We also dove into the importance of self-care for agency owners—something too many of us neglect. Matthew shared how shifting from reactive, fear-based leadership to solution-focused, conscious leadership can improve team morale, retention, and overall agency success.

This was an insightful conversation, and I know agency owners will take a lot from it. If you’re stuck in survival mode, it might be time to rethink how you lead.

In episode 096 of Agency Bytes, I had the pleasure of speaking with Jason Kramer, founder and CEO of Cultivize, about how to improve the sales process through better lead nurturing and CRM strategies. We covered topics like identifying and converting leads, picking the right CRM tools, and the mindset shifts that make CRM usage more effective. Jason shared some great insights on evaluating past marketing efforts, making sense of key metrics, and positioning agencies for success. He also introduced some exciting tools and resources from Cultivize, including a Google Sheets-based CRM system called Profit Path, which helps businesses track leads and marketing expenses more effectively.

Key Bytes

• Cultivize focuses on helping businesses identify, nurture, and convert leads.

• Proper CRM implementation requires ongoing adjustments and strategy.

• Many companies jump into technology without understanding their needs.

• Evaluating past marketing efforts is crucial for future success.

• Metrics should inform decisions, not just provide data.

• Agencies often struggle with self-marketing due to proximity to their own business.

• Positioning and niche marketing are essential for agency success.

• New tools like Profit Path can simplify lead tracking and marketing costs.

• Behavioral changes are necessary for effective CRM usage.

• Asking for help can accelerate business growth. 

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Cultivize and Sales Optimization

05:55 Choosing the Right CRM Tools

11:58 Evaluating Past Marketing Efforts

17:54 Marketing for Agencies: The Importance of Positioning

24:04 Rapid Fire Questions and Final Thoughts

Jason Kramer is the founder and CEO of Cultivize, a consulting firm dedicated to improving lead nurturing and CRM implementation. With more than two decades of experience, Jason has collaborated with both global and local brands to help align marketing and sales efforts. His expertise lies in optimizing sales processes, evaluating underperforming marketing campaigns, and fostering better integration between marketing and sales teams.

Contact Jason: 

https://cultivize.com/learnmore/

Afterthelead.com - Code “AgencyBytes” to save $50

https://cultivize.com/profit-path-sales-tool/

In episode 095 of Agency Bytes, I’m joined by Chip Griffin, founder of the Small Agency Growth Alliance (SAGA). With over 30 years of experience as an agency owner and entrepreneur, Chip shares how small PR, marketing, and creative agency owners can build businesses they truly love.

We dig into some of agency owners' pitfalls, including why chasing “copycat goals” and outdated benchmarks often leads to burnout, and why focusing on profit and personal satisfaction is key. Chip also breaks down his “floor-to-ceiling” pricing model, the importance of time tracking, and how finding focus (a.k.a. niching) can make your agency more efficient and profitable. Plus, we discuss how owners can step back from the grind and take control of their day-to-day.

If you’re ready to rethink your approach to running your agency, this episode is packed with actionable tips to help you grow sustainably and love what you do. Tune in now!

Key Bytes

• Commit to building a business you want to own.

• Define personal goals to shape your agency.

• Focus on profit, not just revenue or headcount.

• Time tracking is essential for understanding costs.

• Pricing should be based on project budgets and value.

• Finding focus helps improve efficiency and results.

• Agency owners often work too many hours on the wrong tasks.

• Control your day to enhance satisfaction.

• Selling an agency is often not a life-changing event.

• Life is too short to be miserable in your work.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Agency Growth

06:36 The Importance of Time Tracking

12:51 Pricing Strategies for Agencies

19:23 Common Pain Points for Agency Owners

25:19 Rapid Fire Questions and Final Thoughts

As the founder of the Small Agency Growth Alliance (SAGA), Chip Griffin helps small PR and marketing agency owners build businesses that they want to own. He works with them to grow profits, eliminate overwork, and improve their overall satisfaction.

As an experienced entrepreneur and agency owner himself, Chip shares the wisdom of his successes and the lessons from his failures. He understands the challenges and opportunities that face agency owners because he sat in the same chair and faced similar decisions.

Chip joined his first agency 30 years ago as a Junior Account Executive and has had an appreciation for the highs and lows these firms experience ever since.

Contact Chip:

www.smallagencygrowth.com

linkedin.com/in/chipgriffin

In episode 094 of Agency Bytes, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Chris Dubois, a seasoned marketing expert and non-founder CEO. Chris shares his fascinating journey from being an infantry officer to leading a successful agency that not only got recognized as an Inc 5000 honoree but also earned the prestigious Two Comma Club award. During our conversation, Chris dives deep into the Dynamic Agency OS, his framework for helping agencies achieve alignment and growth. Key areas of focus from the podcast include:

• Transformational Leadership: How Chris advanced from head of operations to CEO and his insights on effective leadership.

• Strategic Specialization: The importance of niching based on problem-solving and creating differentiated offers.

• Team Optimization: Evaluating and leveraging team strengths to maintain high standards and improve agency culture.

• Quarterly Planning: The benefits of conducting quarterly strategy sessions to stay aligned with client goals and maintain focus.

• Practical Tools: Chris's take on invaluable tools like the AI-powered calendar tool, Motion, and its impact on productivity.

Tune in to explore valuable strategies and actionable insights that can help marketing agency owners thrive and grow their businesses.

Key Bytes

• Chris DuBois transitioned from military service to agency leadership.

• The Dynamic Agency OS framework focuses on operators, offers, and operations.

• Agencies often struggle with client requests outside their expertise.

• Leadership in agencies is about maintaining a strong culture and standard.

• Hiring the right people is crucial for delivering quality work.

• Understanding client needs requires digging deeper into their problems.

• Quarterly strategies help keep clients focused and accountable.

• Soft skills can be broken down into quantifiable hard skills for training.

• Delegation is key for agency owners to focus on growth.

• Networking with other experts can provide valuable insights and solutions.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites and Chris DuBois

06:32 The Dynamic Agency OS: A Framework for Success

12:51 Navigating Client Requests and Agency Expertise

23:39 Personal Insights and Recommendations from Chris DuBois

Chris DuBois helps marketing agencies build a solid go-to-market foundation while avoiding common roadblocks by aligning business design with personal goals through the Dynamic Agency OS. A former head of operations and non-founder CEO at an agency, he is an INC 5000 honoree and 2 Comma Club awardee.

Contact Chris:

DynamicAgencyOS.com

linkedin.com/in/christopherrdubois

Ep 087 – Peter Kang, Barrel Holdings – Building an Agency Portfolio

In Episode 087 of Agency Bytes, I had an inspiring conversation with Peter Kang, co-founder and chairman of Barrel Holdings. Peter shared his journey of building Barrel, a standout eCommerce agency specializing in Shopify, and how his vision evolved into creating multiple specialized agencies under the Barrel Holdings umbrella.  

We dove into the challenges and rewards of growing an agency, the strategic decisions that shaped his path, and what it’s like to step back from daily operations to focus on the bigger picture. Peter is passionate about investing in the right people and systems to build an ecosystem of agency services that truly thrives and writes about it weekly in his newsletter.

He also opened up about the importance of transparency in communication, their bold Omakase experiment in funnel building, and launching Agency Habits, a resource-packed platform for agency operators. Throughout our chat, Peter emphasized the power of relationships in business and the fulfillment that comes from pursuing work you’re truly passionate about.  

This episode is packed with actionable insights and inspiration—don’t miss it!

Key Takeaways

• Peter Kang co-founded Barrel in 2006 with a focus on digital transformation.

• The agency evolved to specialize in e-commerce, particularly Shopify.

• Barrel Holdings was created to manage multiple agencies under one umbrella.

• Transparency in communication has been a core value for Peter and his team.

• The Omakase experiment allowed clients to receive branding for free, building a portfolio.

• Separate agencies allow for tailored staffing and focused strategies.

• Agency Habits aims to share resources and insights among agency operators.

• Building relationships is crucial for long-term success in business.

• The importance of passion-driven work over purely strategic planning.

• Peter emphasizes the need for a succession plan in agency leadership.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites and Peter Kang

05:10 Focusing on E-commerce and Shopify

10:16 The Strategy Behind Separate Agencies

14:35 The Importance of Transparency in Communication

16:20 The Omakase Experiment: A Bold Approach

23:01 Building a Diverse Agency Portfolio

24:56 Launching Agency Habits: A New Venture

28:41 Rapid Fire Questions and Personal Insights

Peter Kang is co-founder and Chairman of Barrel Holdings, a portfolio of digital agency businesses that includes Barrel, a leading Shopify agency, and BX Studio, a leading Webflow agency. Peter enjoys working closely with agency leaders both in and outside of Barrel Holdings, being a sounding board and sharing lessons learned from years of operating agency businesses.

Contact Peter:

barrel-holdings.com

peterkang.com

agencyhabits.com