Ep 167 – Albert Banks, Apertus – How Merging With a Peer Agency Can Break Your Growth Ceiling
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Featuring: Albert Banks, Apertus
In episode 167, I sit down with Albert Banks, founder and principal of Apertus and a twenty-plus-year agency veteran who built MyJive, merged with Union, and sold to Valtech.
We talk about losing ninety percent of his revenue when traditional agencies brought digital in-house, the 2020 repositioning toward performance marketing, and why splitting account and project management changed how they grew clients. Albert walks me through the merger that pushed both agencies past their plateaus, what a well-run integration looks like inside a global acquirer, and why your peers might be your best future deal partners.
If you're running an agency, this one is a reminder that a sellable business and a good life don't have to compete. Albert makes the case for building something operationally sound whether or not you ever sell it, getting the menial work off your plate, and deciding what you actually want before chasing someone else's goals.
Key Bytes
• Run a business that is sellable, whether you ever sell it or not.
• Your best new business usually comes from the clients you already have.
• A merger can turn two plateaued agencies into one mature business overnight.
• Skipping hard decisions during integration feels kind, but it rarely serves the team.
• Similar partners can still make great decisions if diverse viewpoints are welcomed at the table.
• Today's competitor may be tomorrow's merger partner, so build the relationship now.
• You can't plan an exit while you're still buried in the menial work.
• There will always be more work to do, so make time for the life you're working for.
Chapters
00:00 Welcome and intro to Albert Banks
01:18 From computer engineer to accidental agency founder
03:18 Losing 90% of revenue and rebuilding the positioning
06:41 Splitting account and project management to grow clients
08:06 Staying on through the acquisition and integration
12:33 Merging with a peer to break through the growth ceiling
17:47 Why your peers might be your future deal partners
19:47 Life after the exit as a fractional advisor
24:12 Building a sellable business that still gives you a life
27:24 Rapid-fire questions and closing thoughts
Albert Banks is a 20+ year agency veteran, former developer, and "recovering" agency owner. Over two decades, he scaled and transitioned his own firm, from founding digital agency Myjive, to merging with Union, to ultimately completing an acquisition by global digital agency Valtech.
Today, Albert is the Founder and Principal of Apertus, where he serves as a fractional leader and advisor to independent professional services firms. Drawing on his firsthand experience navigating growth plateaus, post-merger integrations, and exits, Albert helps agency founders build operationally sound, highly profitable businesses through operational and financial excellence, employee engagement, and M&A/sale preparation.
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Steve Guberman (00:05.048)
Hang on. They moved things around on me again. Where the hell is my teleprompter? here it is. All right, here we go. Welcome to Agency Bytes. I'm your host, Steve Guberman from Agency Outsite, where I help founders turn their firm into an asset they can grow, sell, or actually enjoy. This week my guest is Albert Banks. Albert is a twenty year, twenty plus year agency veteran, former developer and recovering agency owner. he scaled and sold his own firm from founding My Jive to merging with Union to being acquired by Valtec.
Today he's the founder and principal of Appritus, where he works as a fractional leader and advisor, helping agency founders build operationally sound and highly profitable businesses. very similar world that I live in as well. so I'm excited to have you here to kind of share your perspective on where we're at and what's going on in in the agency space and how you're making an impact. And so thanks for joining me, Albert.
Albert Banks (00:58.949)
Thanks for thanks for having me, Steve. That was a that was a great intro. It made it sound like my own all of that was so easy, but it very much was was difficult.
Steve Guberman (01:06.204)
twenty years of blood, sweat, tears, sleepless nights, long weekends. Yeah, man. Talk through kind of give a give your quick augmented story to my two second intro.
Albert Banks (01:09.871)
That's anxiety. Mm-hmm.
Albert Banks (01:18.947)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, yeah, as you as you pointed out, I started as a computer engineer. I I thought I was gonna go get some some job working in programming and some people can relate to this now in these current days, but the job market was terrible when I graduated college and so me and my buddy just started, you know, d doing doing websites when that was a big thing to start doing and
rode the rode the flash wave. I originally said I was gonna go work for somebody, they were gonna pay for me to get my MBA and then I was gonna start my business and I just skipped the first five years of the plan and and just went straight to figuring it out myself. So, you know, kind of got an MBA on the fly. I thought about going back and getting it later, but everybody was like, dude, you've done you've learned it, like at this point. You've you've been this successful long this this long. So just just keep going with it unless you wanna make connections. So yeah, so I ended up running the business of being sort of the logical partner.
Steve Guberman (01:55.576)
There you go.
Albert Banks (02:10.598)
of it and then yeah, I grew into having employees and getting into social media which was which was fun and digital advertising and maturing with account services and strategy and even built a production arm to create great content. So doing photo, video, animation, in in our platforms and in our marketing. And yeah, I went through tr couple transactions, merger here in the local Charlotte market, which allowed me to really focus more on
on the back end of running the business. so I I I call it all the the sexy non-billable stuff. So finance operations, IT, legal, office, resourcing, HR. but that also positioned me well when it was time to sell the business to to have sort of all the answers that we needed to when we went through that process.
Steve Guberman (02:54.296)
So I'm gonna I'm gonna dig into a couple of those things. One is I like that you identified that it was like a maturity level where you now have account operations and can start building out different production arms because prior to that it's like, yeah, we're just kind of winging it and there's a maturity model that happens. it sounds like you did a lot of things. Did you do a lot of things for all people or were you specifically niched in any verticals?
Albert Banks (03:18.584)
Yeah, I mean, when we started, by the nature of the work we were doing, we were positioned right. And and eventually that went away. And so we had to really think about what we what we wanted to be. You know, ear early on, digital was a differentiator and we worked with a lot with traditional agencies. In fact, I tell the story that we we went from probably ninety percent of our revenue being from agencies one year to the next year being almost the opposite when traditional agencies started taking it in-house. And so we really had to to to get
Steve Guberman (03:31.598)
Mm-hmm.
Steve Guberman (03:41.464)
Wow.
Albert Banks (03:46.437)
get down to like what it was. And for us, because my partner was very into, you know, creative and visuals and animation, like that kind of became our our style. So very much we could sort of rely on our our creative chops. but we were always willing to tackle any kind of weird project, physical installations, like all kinds of new things. So anyway anytime there was sort of an odd odd thing people wanted to do, we were like, heck yeah, let's do We'll figure it out. That's what we did our our entire life. So but yeah eventually digital agency became
sort of everybody was a digital agency, like what else are you doing? and so we actually went through a period in 2020 where we we lost our biggest client, which was Enterprise Web, and then COVID hit within three months of each other. And so that was a very challenging time for our team, for our staff, for us emotionally, but it was sort of the trigger to to make us rethink the business. and so we re repositioned publicly as you know performance marketing and creative.
and and truly rebuilt internally. Like we grew our media team, we built a data and analytics team. and we were focused more on on really what the market was was really more looking for and sort of like moved past our web days. and so that really helped us, frankly, be be in a good spot and be appealing when we when we took a market to sell.
Steve Guberman (05:04.942)
Did you make those shifts more near term or with the exit in mind?
Albert Banks (05:10.406)
I think the exit was always like a potential future at a certain size. So it wasn't deliberately because of that. It was more because of the frustration of the sort of project work and the type of work. And you know, from a business perspective, doing media is, you know, it's repeatable, it's renewable, it can grow and scale, it's measurable so you can share your performance. And so you you you see those results and and clients are happy.
and and and it was so it's more more of a business decision and and where we thought the the industry was really headed.
Steve Guberman (05:43.939)
Yeah, interesting. I don't think a lot of founders or even leadership teams are making pivots like that, thinking about the exit in mind. They're just thinking about near term, what's going on with the market that we served. In your case, agencies, you know, there was a disruption. Who knew that was going to happen, right? So traditional agencies brought digital in-house, you're out of ninety percent of your revenue. You gotta rebuild it, going direct to clients. and and then the repositioning leading to what how it would impact, hopefully.
advanced multipliers for your exit first discount factors. I don't know that I've ever heard of being too tightly niched being a discount factor in evaluation or or an exit. Maybe it has, I don't know. but for you guys it sounds like you spent a lot of time operationalizing the things that need to be operationalized to find more value in a potential exit. Talk kind of talk about what the mindset there was and what what the activities were.
Albert Banks (06:41.218)
Yeah, I mean part of that reposition, we also did a split and I preach about this, people have heard it before, like splitting account and project management, right? That was something that was key to our success when we went through that same sort of public change. But behind the scenes it was, man, we built bit you know, hit our heads against the wall how many times on new business, right? We tried all kinds of different different things, but ultimately it's a relationship business. Our best business comes from our current clients. but we were set up in a situation where we weren't able to
Steve Guberman (07:04.962)
Mm-hmm.
Albert Banks (07:11.306)
work on that a lot. And so by separating the rules, we were able to do that much better. And so not only could we tell the story of we have this r model of the type of services we provide, but we also are set up to have great relationships and long term clients. all of that was more appealing when we went to to to the MA side and we could we could forecast really well of what the next year would look like. And we had a good sense of what clients could grow and what clients couldn't or
what clients would maybe be appealing to someone who who bought us because there was even more services that could potentially be offered. And so just having a great handle on on what that was, you know, I think was a differentiator for us and at least made it a lot easier to have those conversations when it when the time came.
Steve Guberman (07:56.717)
Yeah. and so the exit was that ultimately, did you go along for the ride? Did you s step away? What was that transition like for you?
Albert Banks (08:06.008)
Yeah, it's interesting. it's one of the few moments of my career where I kind of had a choice. you know, for twenty so years it was I you know, people say you the business doesn't you don't run the business, the business runs you. And that was very much the case, right? Like I moved from engineer to to lead lead technical lead and then into sort of a CEO position and then sort of into ops position. And I always just kind of fli kept floating to where where I was needed, which is, you know, totally fine. And that's what entrepreneurs do.
Steve Guberman (08:18.114)
Mm-hmm.
Albert Banks (08:34.816)
but that was sort the first moment of like, okay, there's gonna be a change here, so I can kind of decide what I wanna do. And I chose to to stay stay along for the ride a for a bit. my thought being, look, I've been at kind of small then mid size, so let me see what it's like in a large company, right? Like I've I've done some really what I think things I'm proud of and what our company would be proud of behind the scenes. And so I wanted to see if I could do that at a regional or global level.
I also felt some some obligation and just love for my team and I wanted to make sure the transition was smooth for them. And so yeah, so I went through through that. So I led the integration into into the larger company, which was very different than the you know, Majiv Union coming together, which was a little bit more ad hoc. Let's find the best of both worlds, which ultimately was probably not the best choice. but
Yeah, going into Valtec it was they really buttoned up, doing a ton of acquisitions, so very clear work streams, people responsible. and so I also learned a lot about, yeah, what a what a proper integration looks like and was able to to make it as smooth as possible for for my team and and get us into the to the larger organization. So yeah, stuck around for for quite a while to to see that see that through.
Steve Guberman (09:49.007)
Love it. Talk about all right, so my job and union merged, what were the size differentiations and what were some of the lessons you learned? And then when you took that and merged it up into the larger organization, what were the size differences and some of the lessons you learned there?
Albert Banks (10:02.617)
Yeah, we were probably fifteen to twenty my jive when we merged in with union. They were probably thirty, thirty-five. And so combined, we kinda yeah, we're starting to push above that fifty mark. I think at our height we were at or near eighty. And I think that's around when when we sold because we kind of dropped down and then grew back up to that to that size when we merged in. And then Valtech, I think at the time was like five or six thousand people, right? So totally different size.
Steve Guberman (10:27.358)
wow.
Albert Banks (10:29.591)
very much kind of focused in Europe. So even sort of a smaller group in the the the US and Canada. but that's still, yeah, hundreds of people in North America.
Steve Guberman (10:40.238)
What was the experience going from a literally a small like twenty something to then fifty and then thousands for you? I mean, I've only ever worked in small agencies. So t what was that culture shift an experience for you?
Albert Banks (10:50.288)
Yeah.
Albert Banks (10:54.329)
Yeah, I you know, I really I really kinda enjoyed the experience of going from that fifteen to like fifty because we kept bumping our heads up against that twenty twenty-five mark, you know, and so you know, everybody knows these plateaus that are natural in these organizations. And so it was a way for sort of both of the parties to jump ahead over their plateaus and and get to the size that we felt like we could operationalize. And that's really what happened, right? We could have teams and you could have layers and structure and put things into place.
Steve Guberman (11:04.526)
Mm-hmm.
Albert Banks (11:24.311)
At a sort of proper mature organization that you just kind of get swept by the wayside or, you know, are not priorities when you're smaller and you're just trying to survive. So it allowed us to to be a mature company. And that was for me, that was really exciting. And you know, I think I told some of my new partners like this is the least stress I've ever been. Yeah, it's a little bit chaotic here going through a merger, but knowing we have this scale, knowing we have some depth actually made me much calmer as an as an owner.
and then and then going into the larger organization was just a complete just a complete different thing. You know, you're part of this much larger ecosystem. It's getting to know totally new players. It is you know, we we we read the culture map, like we were t dealing with people in different countries, so trying to understand how we interact and what's the what's the makeup. A lot of those companies had come in or folks had come in via acquisition, so hearing their story and understanding their kind of baggage like we all had.
so yeah, it was just a totally different experience in that respect, but mate, you know, met some amazing people, learned a lot about again the the further maturity that you have to have as an even bigger organization. So yeah, just different world.
Steve Guberman (12:33.72)
Yeah. The interesting learning or I think lesson I really want to pull out, you you kept hitting a ceiling with my dive and the answer was merge. And through merging with union overnight, you became a more sophisticated business. You didn't need to come out of pocket millions of dollars to buy somebody else. You didn't need to operationalize things. You were able to bring two entities together. Hopefully you have well complicated verticals, complemented
talent, service deliveries, and now you've got fifty people under one roof for instantly a more sophisticated business. So the prep for that, what did that look like? W did you feel like you were ready for a merge or was it like, F it, we're just gonna do it and we'll figure it out on the backwash.
Albert Banks (13:19.823)
Yeah, look, transparently it turned out both of our prospective partners wanted to exit as well. And so we we both enjoyed having a partner. And there's something to that. Like if you're a solo founder, man, it is I can't imagine. Like I and that's literally a a moment in choice of mine was like, do I go off, do I continue on my own, or do I do I join forces? And yeah, I always loved having the balance of a partnership. And so that's that was appealing to me. and you
Frankly, we had talked to Union and and my new partner Banks Wilson a couple of times about coming together for this exact reason, right? We were very similar in terms of our service offering, very creative led on on the leadership team and in the same market, right? So eliminated competitors. So and and we felt pretty similar culture wise. So it just made a lot of sense f when all the factors sort of came together. in fact he was sort of looking for that sort of acquisition, right? Like to to jump over his ceiling or grow.
in a different way than the sort of slow slog we're we're both kinda going through. So yeah, it made strategic a lot a lot of sense for so many different reasons. Were we ready for it? No. Like we you know, neither of us had done a transaction before. And so we were we were sort of learning as we as we went and and and like I said, lesson learned like on some of the integration stuff. We kinda, you know, didn't step on any toes early on. And so we thought that was the right way. We figured out and our team would enjoy that. But it turned out
We probably could have just made some decisions and come to the table with a plan and that might have been a better a better way to go about it. So I would say I felt like f financially operationally I I was prepared. Banks was very buttoned up. So like when when it when it came to bringing those the numbers and the the data and the operations together, we were we were pretty well aligned. So there wasn't a lot of disruption then. It was a little more cultural and ways of working and reporting structures and things like that that we had to work through.
Steve Guberman (15:14.52)
Yeah. Hold hold the phone. So your last name is Banks and his first name is Banks?
Albert Banks (15:19.823)
That's right. Banks Wilson and Albert Banks. Yeah, it was the it was a running joke for for a long time. We should have been on a law firm. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Guberman (15:26.174)
And banks. Yeah. Should have been something more like that. Yeah. yeah. I mean, listen, it's such an unlock, right? So I'm I'm at this plateau, you're at this plateau, let's join forces. So long, you know, I always had this guy, we were kind of peer agencies, he's still running a shop. But we would get on the phone and commiserate and be This sucks, do you want to join forces? And it's like, I know we're saying it out of like, let's support one another, but we were too much, we were both creative dudes. So it wasn't like I was a creative dude and he was an operational dude or like
There was no real compliment on how we approached what we did. So it didn't make a ton of sense. So I don't know like what your guys' compliments were. You went from four partners through this deal structure into two partners. So you two must have operated very well together.
Albert Banks (16:10.585)
Yeah, it's funny. We're actually both INTJ. So that was it was it was actually a little surprising that we were so similar. However, I went the computer engineering route. He was a bit more creative. and so I I would almost play, and this is just maybe my nature, I would always just play contrarian, right? So like I we would think too similarly. So I'd purposely take the other view or purposely challenge whatever we were thinking about on purpose to create that dynamic. We also really leveraged our leadership team. We had a really incredible leadership team that
Steve Guberman (16:13.688)
Okay.
Albert Banks (16:40.111)
w we're a unique, different mix of people. And so we didn't we never really made a decision solo. You know, it was it was always, you know, here's sort of sort of options, let's get some consensus. And yeah, oftentimes our leadership team would bring that additional viewpoint. So I think you can have similar partners, you just have to create a scenario in a situation where diverse points of views are encouraged even and and and considered and thought through and evaluated. And
you're making decisions based on that information. But again, I I I always like having a partner. I think there's probably a a point where there's too many, like there's too many voices. You know, maybe if you get to that sort of four or five, that's probably a lot. unless you have really, really clearly defined roles and maybe like a managing partner or something like that. but but that dynamic was will was healthy in our respect and yeah, very transparent and and open.
Steve Guberman (17:32.866)
Yeah, I feel like if you've got four or more partners, I don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole. Even with like clearly defined roles and delineations and all it's just it's too much. If there's four active partners, I'm a hard pass on that one.
Albert Banks (17:36.975)
Yeah.
Albert Banks (17:47.184)
But I but I but to your point on like, you know, your peers, I I've seen it in, you know, different organizations, especially like Soda that I've been a part of, where forming relationships with your peers, you I mean, sh are you competitors? Yes. But are you really, you know, like you can probably learn a lot more from each other than than than lose. And and that's where I've seen a lot of great, you know, mergers or acquisitions come as people who like just know each other, maybe even have worked together, shared clients. and so that if you're th at all thinking about that.
Sort of try before you buy, maybe just like partner with other organizations that are complementary or even similar and just see how it goes and see if there's a there's a match there. 'Cause you never know. whether it be now or like in our case, you know, maybe ten years later you decide to come together.
Steve Guberman (18:29.518)
Mm-hmm. I don't know the data. I'm sure somebody's got it, maybe emerge.com or you know one of these MA data houses. But I would I would wager most acquisitions happen bec through first and second connections. So even when I'm walking a founder through how do we do outreach for on buy side, who we want to who we want to buy, it's their first and second connections. It's people that they know. It's are you ready to exit? Are you looking for a next opportunity, something like that? So
yeah, I I'm all for community over competition, networking. You know, you can even play the card of like know your enemy or whatever the heck that, you know, whether it's Sopranos or the art of war, I don't know where that comes from, but I'm all for like embrace the people that are close to you, understand how they operate, how can you help one another, rising tides, you know, rises all the ships or whatever. And then when there is an opportunity for some sort of a merger or to do an acquisition, A, it's it's a known entity.
You know what their brand reputation is, you know how they operate, you can see their turn rate on employees and turn rate on clients, and you're killing off competition. And so yeah, I think that's the right way to roll. fast forward out now, your X years out from that exit. what are you talk talk about what you're doing now and what you're seeing in the agency space.
Albert Banks (19:47.098)
Yeah, well w ev even while I was running union, even pre acquisition, you know, I was I was talking with people and helping some folks kind of on the side with their business. You know, I I I learned so much from from others who were sort of further ahead on the journey than I was. And so I f I very much want to get back and sort of mentor and so I've been helping people with their their their companies on the s on the side there. And so
I decided, you know, rather than I'm probably unemployable at this point. So I you know, and I and I'm so passionate about helping build things and systems and businesses. but I didn't want to own one again, at least not for a while, and have the responsibility of employees. So that's made a natural progression for me and it's not unique to me. Others have done something similar where they're consulting or advising, and so that's what I do now. I help other other service firms, which obviously I have a ton of
connections in sort the agency specific space, but I found that what I can offer is is applicable to other service businesses. I've helped a helped a business broker, I've helped a co custom home builder. But yeah, most of it is sort of in the creative technology production agency space. helping them through, yeah, through those plateaus, through those challenges that I've seen go through that. And it's it's very much based on the experiences and the skills that I have. I call it kind of the three door. So
operations and finance, so resourcing, tools, process, people, pricing, employee engagement and satisfaction. So focusing on culture and compensation strategies and career frameworks and how do you resolve issues and do you have a deliberate effort on on innovation and then support around sale and acquisition. So you know if you're if you're like me, you had no idea you could probably sell your business, much less acquire another business. and so sort of some education that I can do with with folks and and and catch them up to speed.
Steve Guberman (21:29.262)
Mm-hmm.
Albert Banks (21:34.552)
do sort of a mock or a pre-diligence to stress test their business or or maybe someone they want to go after. And then having been through it, the the due diligence and integration is such a distraction from running your business successfully that if you can afford to bring in someone like myself to help during that time, it can be really, really invaluable. Not only the time savings, but just sort of the the skill and experience and and and watching out for the gotchas.
'Cause you can have the value of your business slip right if you get distracted during this process because it is it is long and and I've seen firsthand and there's tons of research around how many transactions the value just doesn't come to fruition because there's not good integration, you know, maybe not even good planning going into the integration, much less the follow through. So so yeah, that's the again, those those bumps that I'm trying to help people go through as they go on their their entrepreneurial journey and
And I you know, some sometimes it's a fractional role, sometimes it's, you know, a project or sprint, sometimes it's playing sort of a an executive of a advisor, almost like a board position to to help folks. It really just depends on where where they are, what they're working with. yeah, sometimes it just takes a third party to come in, you know, especially if you have two partners maybe, or just somebody from the outside to look at your business differently and and sort of
have you work on the business. I'm big on that. Like if y don't work with me unless you're ready to work on your business. Like if you're still just trying to like get through it and you're gonna be distracted as my view, but really just running your business and you can't work on it, then that's fine. We can work together some other time. So the timing's gotta be right for for you to engage a third a third party. So and again it's just me. I'm not going anywhere. So I'm happy to wait when the time is right.
Steve Guberman (23:18.956)
It's a valuable perspective because you've got the experience similar to I d to what I have to help founders like see around the corner of some of these transactions or what they need to do to be ready for it. and the idea that, I didn't know I could sell, or I just thought I was trapped in this thing, or once I'm kinda out of that day to day, now I can buy other businesses. And like what a really cool thing to kind of open somebody's mind to all these different possibilities.
I so I'm curious kind of what you see are some of the traps of the things that are holding them back from either folks on an exit because there's a lot of exit activity going on right now. Like what are some of the things that you're seeing in mostly in the creative marketing digital space when we say agency, I have to specify that now 'cause insurance agency people started listening. that like that's holding them back from a potential exit or a valuable exit, I should say.
Albert Banks (24:04.347)
Really?
Albert Banks (24:12.995)
Yeah. we we talk in our groups like a lot about this l the concept of lifestyle business. and in a lot of times people use it as a negative thing, like, you're just running a lifestyle business. And that sort of has this notion of maybe you're not paying attention to op operations very well, or maybe you're not you know, very profitable or something like that. I'm I'm a proponent of both, like having
running a a good business that is sellable whether you sell it or not and provides you the lifestyle that you're happy with. Like that enough. Right so many years I was stressed and anxious and pushing towards some goal that we just decided was our goal. Like I don't know, you know, bigger, better, more, I don't know, whatever it is. So versus thinking about what we wanted our life to be. And so I'm not a coach, but I do sort of end up coaching clients around, okay, what what do you actually want?
Steve Guberman (24:46.99)
Mm-hmm.
Albert Banks (25:06.863)
You know, what do you what do you want your data look like? What do you want your life to look like in a couple of years? You know, do when do you want to retire? Like, do you want to pan this off to your kids? Like really thinking about themselves a little bit because they typically don't. They they think about the business and this machine that they've they've got to keep going and and most of them are very dedicated to their staffs. And so there's the the pressure of of of that kind of kind of added to their shoulders. So really those that have their identity so tied to their business and are choosing goals that are sort of just
keeping up with the Joneses, that's one of the first things that we can tackle. It's just changing, changing their perspective. and also like they don't have to do everything, you know, finding, I love who not how, like finding the individuals who are great at the things that especially you don't like to do, much less you're not good at. and oftentimes they're not that expensive really. or you can get them sort of fractionally or or hourly or something. So
making them think a little bit differently about the makeup of how they go about doing things and the people they have around them. So those are those are the first few things. So that's without even getting into like the actual how do they run their business, you know, are they doing the right accrual financials like calculating the right things? Are they measuring? and and that's that's where we get into more of what I call the the sort of implementation stuff that I can do of of of helping to fix some of the things that can be improved within the organization.
Steve Guberman (26:30.446)
Yeah. You t you talk about the who not how and I'm a big proponent of like doing doing an owner's audit and understanding what you're spending your time on. And then when you realize how much this menial task is costing your business instead of focusing on what we say, the thousand dollar an hour things, you could pay somebody fifty bucks an hour, twenty bucks an hour to ten bucks an hour in this day and age to do these things that you should be focusing that you shouldn't be doing. And so it's not even like that you can get somebody inexpensively to do it. It's what a waste of money for you to be doing it.
Albert Banks (26:44.57)
Yeah, just
Steve Guberman (26:58.754)
So build the system and put a person in place and or put a person in place, have them build the system, get it off your plate and focus on the big picture stuff. yeah, huge fan of that.
Albert Banks (27:06.107)
That's right. Yeah. And and unless you're do unless you're doing on that, there's no way you can start thinking about selling or acquiring, right? Because you're you're still down in the weeds doing the stuff, much less thinking about, yeah, what's the big picture? What is our what is our real aspiration? What is our real path forward? Cause you're yeah, you're just trying to get through all the menial tasks that you've kept on yourself.
Steve Guberman (27:24.46)
Yeah. Albert, this has been awesome. we I think we talk agency and MA prep and the MA itself all day long. to stay true to the listeners. I want to keep it on time. So wrap up with a couple of last minute rapid fire questions. the first is what's one of the most valuable business books that you've ever read?
Albert Banks (27:45.321)
I'd have to say traction. I know it's probably a common answer, but yeah, as somebody who ran a ran a business and never had an operating system or knew what I was doing, that was a great guide. And you know, whether you use twenty five, eighty, a hundred percent of it, it can help you.
Steve Guberman (27:59.426)
Yeah. Traction and if you're scared to read, you can even get into what the heck is EOS, which is like the Cliff Notes version. But absolutely. what is a daily practice that you that that sets your day straight so that you can operate optimally?
Albert Banks (28:14.105)
Yeah, I struggled with anxiety a quite a bit running an agency. and so I try to meditate every morning, even just for five minutes, to sort of just start my day in a different way and and and helps me practice being present. I am very much in my own head and thinking all of the time, and so that practice is very much a practice. So yeah, medit meditation.
Steve Guberman (28:18.658)
Mm.
Steve Guberman (28:39.884)
Love it. Second that. Huge fan. and then finally, if you look back on thirty years ago, Albert Banks, what would be an invaluable piece of advice that you'd give him on what you know today?
Albert Banks (28:50.699)
there will always be more work to do. So stop, enjoy your life, spend time with your family, your friends, enjoy your activities, because there's always more work to do.
Steve Guberman (28:59.256)
Mm-hmm.
Huge. Sage advice. Albert, thank you so much for joining me. I'm grateful for your time and your experience and wisdom. folks, check out Albert Banks. you can find him. Hang on, I lost my screen.
Steve Guberman (29:15.53)
Apertus dot co or find them on LinkedIn. Thanks, Albert.