In episode 144, I’m joined by Ali Mirza, a sales expert who’s personally closed over $450 million in revenue and advised hundreds of high-growth companies, including multiple Inc. 500 winners and successful exits.

Ali and I dig into what’s really broken in agency sales today — from why “more leads” isn’t the answer, to how founders unintentionally sabotage deals, to the mindset shifts required to close larger, more confident engagements. This conversation is especially relevant for agency owners who are great at delivery but feel stuck, uncomfortable, or inconsistent when it comes to selling.

We talk candidly about sales systems vs. sales personalities, the danger of winging it, and how agencies can move from reactive selling to intentional, scalable growth without becoming someone they’re not.

Key Bytes

• Why “just getting more leads” rarely fixes agency sales problems

• The hidden mindset traps that keep agency owners underpricing

• How confidence (not pressure) actually drives better close rates

• The difference between selling expertise vs. selling outcomes

• Why inconsistent sales processes hurt valuation and scalability

Chapters

00:00 Why agency sales feels harder than it should

04:32 The biggest sales myths agency owners believe

09:15 Why confidence matters more than scripts

14:40 Selling outcomes vs. selling services

20:05 How founders accidentally sabotage deals

26:18 Pricing fear and the psychology behind it

32:10 Building a repeatable sales process

38:45 What great agency sales leadership really looks like

44:20 Final advice for agency owners who hate selling

Ali Mirza is a sales expert who has personally closed over $450 million in sales with multiple Inc. 500 companies and high-growth startups.

His work has been featured in Inc., Forbes, Huffington Post, Business Insider, and more. He has consulted for hundreds of companies, with 17 earning the Inc. 500 Fastest Growing Companies award and three successfully acquired. He is president of Atlanta-based consulting firm, Rose Garden.

Connect with Ali:

alimirza.com

rosegardenconsulting.com

IG: @alimirza.rgc

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In episode 143, I dig into one of the most underestimated risks in agency ownership: the legal blind spots that quietly cost agencies millions over time.

From contracts and scope creep to client disputes, IP ownership, and liability exposure, we unpack where agencies unknowingly put themselves at risk — and why most don’t realize it until it’s too late.

This conversation is a must-listen for agency owners who want to protect what they’ve built, reduce unnecessary exposure, and stop treating legal as an afterthought instead of a growth safeguard.

Key Bytes

• Most agencies don’t realize their biggest legal risks until a problem hits

• Poor contracts quietly drain profit long before lawsuits happen

• Scope creep is as much a legal issue as it is a pricing issue

• IP ownership mistakes can create long-term client and valuation problems

• Proactive legal structure is a growth advantage, not a cost center

Chapters

00:00 Why legal blind spots are so common in agencies

04:15 The contracts agencies rely on (and why they fall short)

10:20 Scope creep as a legal and financial issue

18:05 IP ownership mistakes that come back years later

26:40 Client disputes: where agencies expose themselves

34:10 Risk vs. fear: what actually matters legally

42:00 Simple fixes agency owners can make now

50:10 How legal hygiene protects valuation and exit

56:30 Final thoughts & wrap-up

Sharon Toerek is Founder of Toerek Law (doing business in the agency world as Legal + Creative), where she focuses her national law practice on helping advertising, marketing, communications and creative agencies protect their assets and turn their ideas into revenue.

Sharon provides proactive, strategic counsel to communications, marketing, advertising, digital and creative agencies on legal and business issues they face continually in their work, including:

• agency-client relationships, including agency service contracts

• agency-freelancer and agency strategic alliance relationship management

• trademark and copyright protection, enforcement and licensing

• influencer marketing negotiations and content marketing legal compliance

• advertising regulatory compliance

• AI policy and risk management for agencies

Sharon is an approved participant on the 4A's Legal Consultants Panel, and a member of the 4A’s Expert Network. She has also served as President of the American Ad Federation (AAF) Cleveland and has been elected to AAF Cleveland’s Hall of Fame.

In addition to her Firm’s work representing U.S. independent agencies, Sharon

• Created the Legal + Creative Agency Protection System, a comprehensive legal education and legal toolkit for marketing, ad and creative services agencies

• Created and hosted over 300 episodes of the agency-focused podcast The Innovative Agency, a podcast about innovation and trends in the marketing agency world

• Presents sessions on agency-critical legal topics to independent agency networks, to private agency audiences, and at industry conferences including INBOUND, Content Marketing World, MAICON, the Build a Better Agency Summit, Own It Summit, Mirren New York, and PRSA Counselors Academy.

Contact Sharon:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharontoerek/

https://legalandcreative.com/

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In episode 142, I sit down with Amy Maxwell, founder and creative director of Maxwell Design, to talk about the real tension small creative shops face: how do you grow without sacrificing the craft that made you successful in the first place?

We dig into what it looks like to evolve from “hands-on designer” to “agency leader,” how to protect quality as you add capacity, and how to make smart choices about clients, process, and scope so growth doesn’t turn into chaos. If you want to scale with intention (and still love the work), this one’s for you.

Key Bytes

• Scaling doesn’t have to mean sacrificing creative quality

• Your process is what protects the craft as you grow

• “Better clients” often solves what “more clients” can’t

• You can stay hands-on without being the bottleneck

• The right constraints create consistency, not limitation

• Hiring should reduce friction, not add management drag

• Clear scope and boundaries prevent quiet burnout

Chapters

00:00 Intro: scaling without losing the craft

02:10 Amy’s origin story and building Maxwell Design

06:20 The “stay small” choice and what it protects

11:05 When growth starts to strain quality (warning signs)

16:10 Processes that keep creative standards high

22:30 Team structure: support roles vs creative roles

28:40 Client fit, boundaries, and saying “no” earlier

34:15 Staying fulfilled while the business grows

40:20 Rapid-fire questions and wrap-up

Amy—Creative Director + Founder of Maxwell Design—has spent the last two decades helping businesses look their best. She’s an award-winning designer with a knack for reading minds and creating delightful visual experiences. Her solution-focused approach makes her someone you’ll want in any room. And her small (but mighty) team comes with some major design chops.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwelldesignco/

http://maxwelldesignco.com/

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In episode 141, I sit down with Melissa and Meredith, the hosts of the Agency Darlings podcast and longtime agency operators, to unpack why so many agency owners feel burned out, stuck, or disillusioned by the traditional agency growth advice that’s been circulating for decades.

We talk candidly about the “bro playbook” — hustle culture, ego-driven leadership, top-down decision making, and growth at all costs — and why it often leads to unhealthy teams, poor margins, and miserable owners. Melissa and Meredith share what they’ve learned from years inside agencies about what actually drives sustainable growth: emotional intelligence, clear communication, strong operations, and leadership that prioritizes people alongside profit.

This episode is a refreshing, grounded look at agency leadership through a more human lens — one that challenges outdated norms and offers agency owners permission to build businesses that align with who they actually are.

Key Bytes

• Why the traditional agency “bro playbook” is failing modern agencies• The hidden cost of hustle culture on owners and teams• How emotional intelligence impacts agency growth and retention• What healthier leadership looks like inside agencies• Redefining success beyond revenue and headcount

Chapters

00:00 Why the traditional agency playbook feels broken05:12 The origins of hustle culture in agencies11:04 Masculine-driven leadership norms and their impact17:32 Emotional intelligence as a growth lever23:58 Building healthier agency cultures30:41 Operator-led leadership vs. ego-led leadership37:10 Sustainable growth without burnout43:26 Redefining success as an agency owner49:12 Advice for owners ready to do things differently

Each with over 15 years of experience in the agency space and deep-rooted connections within the industry, Melissa and Meredith bring actionable insights, expert advice, and candid conversations that challenge the conventional, masculine-driven approaches to agency growth.

Contact Meredith & Melissa:www.agencydarlings.comhttps://bit.ly/MWDarlingshttps://waverlyave.comhttps://instagram.com/waverlyave.cohttps://www.lecheile.co/contacthttps://www.instagram.com/lecheile.co/

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In episode 140, I sit down with Michael Janda—agency founder, bestselling author, and one of the most respected voices helping creatives master the business side of creativity. Michael built and sold Riser, worked with giants like Disney and Google, and later led creative teams at Fox before dedicating his career to teaching creatives how to price, position, and run their businesses without burning out.

We dig into the mental and operational “growing up” that every creative eventually faces: getting past portfolio thinking, charging confidently, understanding value, eliminating chaos, and building a more peaceful (and profitable) creative life. Michael’s straight-talk wisdom hits every agency owner exactly where they need it—no fluff, no ego, just clarity.

Key Bytes

• Why creatives struggle with pricing — and how to fix it

• The mindset shift from freelancer to business owner

• How Michael positioned his agency to win massive clients

• The surprising relationship between process, profit, and peace

• What creatives get wrong about value

• Why “portfolio thinking” holds owners back

• How to build a business that supports your life, not the other way around

Chapters

00:01 Welcome + Michael’s background and agency journey

04:12 From creative chaos to building processes that scale

09:45 Why pricing is emotional—and how to make it objective

14:30 Portfolio vs. business owner mindset

19:58 Finding ideal clients and positioning that works

25:21 How Michael sold his agency and what he learned

31:44 The psychology of creative profitability

38:10 Achieving peace of mind as an owner

44:22 Michael’s advice for creatives who feel “stuck”

Michael Janda is an award-winning creative director, agency founder, and bestselling author.

He built the creative agency Riser with clients like Disney, Google, Warner Bros., and ABC, then sold the business after 13 successful years. Before that, he served as a creative director at Fox. Michael

is the author of Burn Your Portfolio and The Psychology of Graphic Design Pricing. Today, he shares practical, no-fluff strategies to help creative professionals master business, pricing, and growth.

Community: https://morecreativeacademy.com

Instagram: https://instagram.com/morejanda

YouTube: https://youtube.com/morejanda

LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/morejanda

Website: https://michaeljanda.com

Courses: https://morejanda.teachable.com

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Ep 139 – Melanie Chandruang, We Consult – Agency Ops that Actually Scale: Financials, Workflows, and AI That Works

In episode 139, I sit down with Melanie Chandruang, founder of WeConsult and a strategic operations partner for creative agencies. Melanie has spent the last seven years helping agencies tighten up their financials, streamline workflows, and build stronger leadership teams—while also navigating two maternity leaves, a cross-country move, and re-entering the industry in one of its toughest seasons.

We dig into how she rebuilt WeConsult after stepping away to have kids, what’s changed in the agency landscape since 2023, and why she’s now staying higher-level as a fractional ops leader instead of getting buried in implementation. Melanie breaks down what healthy leadership actually looks like, why so many founders remain the bottleneck even after hiring “senior” people, and how clear ownership, scorecards, and trust change everything.

We also get tactical: what she looks for first in the financials, the operational metrics that matter most, and why agencies without documented processes are struggling the most with AI adoption. We wrap by talking about leading through uncertainty, avoiding burnout, and the simple practice Melanie uses to remind herself of the value she’s creating—plus her very 90s go-to karaoke song.

Key Bytes
• Clean financials and clear reporting are the true foundation of scalable ops

• Workflow ownership matters — if it’s nobody’s job, it’s nobody’s job

• Founders stay bottlenecks when leadership has no autonomy or scorecards

• Agencies with documented systems adopt AI faster (and with fewer messes)

• Strong leadership = trust, clarity, and shared problem-solving

• Self-care and boundaries are essential for sustainable agency ownership

Chapters

00:01 Intro and how Melanie rebuilt WeConsult after kids and a cross-country move

02:48 Stepping away from client work, losing momentum, and clawing back into a changed industry

05:36 Why Melanie now stays high-level and pushes implementation to internal teams and automation

07:42 Founders as bottlenecks and what a truly strong leadership team looks like

11:15 Ego, scale, and the operational shifts required for owners to get out of the way

15:36 Where Melanie starts operationally: financials, workflows, and clear ownership

18:07 The agency financial metrics that actually matter (profitability, cash, utilization, and more)

22:03 Why documented systems are the key to successful AI adoption (and how messy it gets without them)

26:00 Leading through uncertainty, rebuilding a business, and protecting your own wellbeing

28:38 AI note-takers, imposter syndrome, and Melanie’s “value” practice

31:36 Melanie’s 90s karaoke pick and where to learn more about WeConsult

Melanie Chandruang is the Founder of WeConsult and a Strategic Operations Partner for creative agencies. With over 15 years in the industry, she helps agency owners boost profits, streamline operations, and move big initiatives forward so they can focus on growth and what matters most.

https://weconsult.io/

Ep 138 – Jordan Snider, Token Creative – The impact of integrating Ignition App

In episode 138, I sit down with Jordan Snider, co-founder and CTO of Token Creative Services, to break down the real impact of integrating Ignition App into their agency operations. Jordan shares how Token went from scattered proposals, manual invoices, and nearly $40k in aging AR to a streamlined, single-system workflow that clients actually appreciated.

We dig into the operational before/after: centralized proposals and agreements, automated billing, faster close rates, clearer scope definition, easier upsells and renewals, and the elimination of unbilled “mystery hours.” Jordan also talks about forecasting clarity — and why dashboards that tie proposals, renewals, and revenue projections together are a game changer for decision-making.

This episode is a grounded look at what happens when an agency stops tolerating a duct-taped sales and billing process and finally upgrades the operational spine of the business.

Key Bytes

• Token’s breaking point was nearly $40k in aging AR — a clear sign the proposal and billing process was broken.

• Clients were confused by multiple proposal versions, scattered contracts, and manual payments; consolidating everything through Ignition simplified the entire client experience.

• The biggest financial lift came from capturing previously unbilled variable hours and out-of-scope work.

• Automated reminders and stored payment methods dramatically reduced AR and manual follow-up.

• Forecasting became easier with visible open proposals, renewal pipelines, and year-over-year revenue projections.

• Simplifying the tech stack cut both software cost and constant integration maintenance.

• Ignition enabled Token to shift from hourly pricing to value-driven retainers because operations finally supported it.

• Jordan’s advice: delaying this overhaul guarantees regret — proactively fixing it avoids the forced crisis moment.

Chapters

00:00 Intro and why Token’s Ignition story matters

02:05 Token’s early days and “brute force” agency ops

03:10 The $40k AR wake-up call

05:10 What was broken in their proposal + onboarding workflow

06:55 Client reactions after switching to Ignition

07:50 Close rates, renewals, and handling scope creep

09:40 Capturing unbilled work and shrinking AR

11:55 Forecasting and metrics that changed decision-making

14:00 Simplifying the tech stack and ditching integrations

16:40 How clarity improved both scope and service delivery

23:40 Productizing services and shifting to retainers

25:05 Jordan’s advice for agencies resisting the overhaul

26:50 Rapid fire and wrap-up

Jordan Snider is the Co-Founder and CTOof Token Creative Services, a full-service digital marketing and creative agency based in Kitchener-Waterloo. With a background in full-stack software engineering, Jordan bridges the gap between technical development and creative marketing. He has contributed personal reflections to platforms supporting victims of family violence, discussing the unique stressors faced by newcomers and the importance of community support systems.

His work reflects a blend of technical precision and a commitment to social impact, aligning with Token Creative’s mission to support businesses making positive environmental or social changes.

token.ca

ignitionapp.info/agencybytes-trial

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Ep 137 – Jennifer Spire, Preston Spire – Built to Last: The 75-Year Agency Still Breaking Rules

In episode 137, I sit down with Jennifer Spire, Partner and CEO of Preston Spire — a 75-year-old agency that’s somehow still pushing boundaries while many newer shops flame out. Jennifer shares how she modernized a legacy company without losing the cultural DNA that kept it alive for three-quarters of a century. We get into leadership transitions, building a values-driven agency, navigating generational shifts in talent, and how she’s shaping the next era of a Midwest powerhouse.

Key Bytes

• The hidden advantages legacy agencies have but often ignore

• Why values act as a competitive moat — but only if they’re enforced

• How Jennifer leads change without blowing up culture

• The reality of modernizing 75-year-old processes

• Where agencies underestimate the work of staying relevant

Chapters

00:00 Intro

01:20 What it means to run a 75-year-old agency today

05:05 How Jennifer modernized Preston Spier without breaking it

09:40 The cultural DNA that actually drives retention

13:55 Why “values” only matter when leaders enforce them

17:48 Leadership evolution: from partner to CEO

21:30 What younger talent expects from an established shop

25:18 Staying relevant in a fast-changing industry

29:55 How Preston Spire balances legacy and innovation

33:42 Advice Jennifer wishes she had earlier

38:10 Closing thoughts

Jennifer Spire is partner and CEO at Preston Spire, an Ad Age Best Place to Work and Midwest Small Agency of the Year. She is an accomplished agency leader with over 25 years of experience in both consumer and B2B marketing for just about every industry out there. At Preston Spire, Jennifer has played the leading role in reshaping the framework that defines the agency, focused on a strong vision, values and purpose. She has been a speaker at dozens of local and national conferences, has authored articles and thought pieces on various marketing subjects, and has been a board member of several nonprofit organizations. Jennifer was an east coast native before calling Minneapolis home. She was an NCGA gymnast and a gymnastics coach, who also had advertising in her blood, thanks to her grandfather being one of the founding fathers of Madison Avenue.

Contact Jennifer:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-spire-a992462/

https://www.prestonspire.com/

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Ep 136 – JP Holecka, Power Shifter Digital – Building the AI-Driven Agency: Lessons from Power Shifter’s Evolution

In episode 136, I sit down with JP Holecka, founder and CEO of Power Shifter Digital, a Vancouver-based agency leading the shift toward AI-driven digital products and content creation. With over 30 years of experience in design, film, and technology, JP has guided multiple teams through successful AI rollouts—transforming workflows, scaling creativity, and redefining how digital agencies deliver value.

We talk about what it really takes to evolve your agency for the AI era, how to navigate the culture shift that comes with automation, and why embracing AI is less about replacing people and more about amplifying what they’re capable of.

KEY BYTES

• AI isn’t replacing creativity—it’s amplifying it

• True transformation starts with changing workflows, not job titles

• The most successful AI rollouts start with internal adoption before client delivery

• Leadership has to model curiosity and experimentation

• Agencies that treat AI as a tool, not a threat, are finding their competitive edge

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction

02:01 JP’s background and the evolution of Power Shifter

06:32 The first AI experiments that changed everything

10:45 Getting team buy-in and overcoming initial skepticism

14:58 Building processes around AI rather than forcing it in

20:10 Human creativity in the age of automation

25:36 How AI has changed client expectations

31:12 Leadership lessons from scaling an AI-driven agency

36:45 The next frontier of digital work

40:30 JP’s advice for agency founders starting their AI journey

43:00 Rapid Fire Questions

JP Holecka is the founder and CEO of Power Shifter Digital, a Vancouver-based agency leading the shift toward AI-driven digital products and content creation. With over 30 years of experience in design, film, and technology, JP has guided multiple agencies through successful AI rollouts—transforming workflows, scaling creativity, and redefining how teams collaborate with generative tools.

https://www.powershifter.com/studio

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jpholecka/

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In episode 135, I sit down with Drew McLellan, CEO of Agency Management Institute and host of the Build a Better Agency podcast. Drew’s been in the business for over 30 years and has coached thousands of agencies on how to grow profitably, attract better clients, and actually enjoy the perks of ownership.

In this conversation, we unpack what the real job of an agency owner is — and how easy it is to get lost in the weeds doing everyone else’s. Drew shares how founders can move from day-to-day chaos to the higher-level work of vision, leadership, and building a pipeline that doesn’t depend on them. We also talk about the mental shift from “founder hustle” to “CEO clarity,” and what it really means to build an agency that serves your life, not the other way around.

Key Bytes

• The three things only the owner can and should do

• Why your agency’s profit tells the truth about your leadership

• Building a self-sustaining pipeline that runs without you

• How to structure your week around the owner’s actual job

• The difference between running an agency and owning a business

• What makes an agency truly “sellable”

• Common traps that keep founders stuck in the weeds

• How to get your time back without losing control

Chapters

00:00 Welcome and Drew’s background

04:12 The evolution from founder to true agency owner

09:45 What the “owner’s actual job” really is

14:58 Why agency profit is a mirror of leadership

20:17 Building systems and pipelines that aren’t you

26:04 The importance of clarity and delegation

31:42 Common mistakes that limit scalability

38:27 How to build an agency that can thrive without you

44:10 Preparing for eventual sale or succession

49:22 Drew’s advice for new and seasoned agency owners

Drew McLellan has worked in advertising for 30+ years and started his own agency, McLellan Marketing Group in 1995 after a five-year stint at Y&R and still actively runs the agency.

He spends the lion’s share of his time running Agency Management Institute (AMI), which he also co-owns/runs with his wife Danyel.

AMI serves thousands of agencies small to mid-sized agencies (advertising, digital, marketing, media and PR) every year, so they can increase their AGI, attract better clients and employees, mitigate the risks of being self-employed in a such volatile business and best of all — let the agency owner actually enjoy the perks of agency ownership.

AMI is the only agency network that is run by an active agency owner. It offers:

Public workshops for agency owners, leaders and account service staff

Owner peer networks (like a Vistage group or 4A’s forums)

Private coaching/consulting for agency owners

Annual primary research with CMOs and client decision makers about their work with agencies

The highly praised podcast Build A Better Agency

The only conference built for small to mid-sized agencies – the Build A Better Agency Summit

Drew often appears in publications like Entrepreneur Magazine, New York Times, Washington Post, Forbes, AdAge, CNN, BusinessWeek, and many others. The Wall Street Journal calls him “one of 10 bloggers every entrepreneur should read.”

He’s also written several books, the most recent being Sell with Authority (January 2020). The latest book has garnered rave reviews and has been the guidebook for agency growth and business development in today’s world.

Drew also speaks at leading agency and marketing conferences like Inbound, Content Marketing World and MAICON and is often cited in agency centric content for his expertise in the industry.

When he’s not hanging out with clients or agency owners and their staff, Drew spends time with his wife, their blended family and following his beloved Dodgers.

http://agencymanagementinstitute.com

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In episode 133, I dive into the real-world path of AI adoption for agencies with guest Kirstin Russ, founder of Principal Edge AI and Mountains to Sea Media. We unpack the four “zones” of adoption (from denial to productized services), why most AI projects fail without structure and change management, and how to turn internal automations into billable client solutions. We also hit on junior-talent pipelines in an AI world, the risk of “robot-trained-by-robots” content, pricing when you’re still learning, and the discovery discipline required to make automations actually stick.

Key Bytes

• The winning agencies move from “dabbling in automations” to selling AI-powered solutions that solve specific client problems.

• 95% of AI projects fail because of missing structure, messy data, and zero change management — fix those first.

• AI should elevate people to higher-value work; train juniors to work with AI, not to be replaced by it.

• Don’t chase every shiny tool; build repeatable agent patterns and a stable stack you trust.

• Discovery is everything: a “15-step” flow usually hides 30 more steps — price and scope accordingly.

• Monetization starts with ops pain: map ugly manual workflows, then automate the “swivel-chair” steps.

• Thought leadership beats generic AI copy: capture founder audio, codify brand voice + ICPs, then assist with AI.

• Profit vs. quality is a real tension — set guardrails so efficiency never erodes outcomes.

Chapters

00:00 Intro & Kirstin’s two businesses

00:57 Why an outsource-first agency model

03:07 Year of deep AI study and first tools “in the wild”

04:43 The four zones of agency AI adoption

06:14 From “getting ahead” to “survive”: disruption hits marketing

09:01 Why AI projects fail: structure, data, and change management

11:00 Practical internal automations (transcripts → CRM, follow-ups, etc.)

12:58 Junior talent in an AI era & the content quality dilemma

15:18 Building an AI content assist system (voice, ICP, research)

18:48 Tool sprawl vs. foundations; avoiding shiny-object traps

20:40 Can clients DIY? Positioning & selling AI services

21:08 Case studies: Square inventory workflow & quote tool

24:38 Pricing while you’re learning; managing expectations

27:18 Aha moments: you can’t do it all; systemize & delegate

29:14 Theme songs, imposter syndrome, and wrap up

Kirstin Russ is a seasoned business strategist with 30 years of cross-industry experience who brings a unique dual approach to business growth. As the founder of Practical Edge AI, she helps businesses leverage artificial intelligence to automate growth, reduce manual workload, and improve profitability—often delivering measurable results within the first week.

Simultaneously, as the driving force behind Mountains to Sea Media, a Western North Carolina-based digital marketing agency, Kirstin helps businesses amplify their online presence through strategic internet marketing, data analytics, and performance-focused web design.

Kirstin's superpower lies in her holistic approach to business analysis, understanding how systems interconnect and where AI can enhance traditional & digital marketing strategies. By combining cutting-edge AI solutions with proven digital marketing expertise, she creates integrated growth pathways that optimize both operations and customer acquisition.

With an approachable style and commitment to practical results, Kirstin transforms business challenges into opportunities. Her guiding question remains: "If you could wave a magic wand and change anything about your business, what would it be?"

https://www.practicaledge.ai/

https://mountainstoseamedia.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/practical-edge-ai/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/mountains-to-sea-media/

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In episode 132, I talk with Leah Leaves, founder of Alderaan Operations Solutions, where she helps remote digital agencies grow without the grind. Known for her no-fluff, systems-first approach, Leah and her team embed expert operations managers directly into agencies to break bottlenecks, reduce burnout, and build businesses that can scale without the founder in every decision.

We dig into what causes owners to become the bottleneck, the difference between goals, systems, and team accountability, and how every agency—no matter the size—can start building a foundation that prevents burnout and supports growth. Leah also shares how to identify when it’s time to bring in an operator, how to delegate effectively, and why even the best creative agencies need structure to thrive. We wrap by exploring how AI fits into internal operations and why every agency needs an AI Ops roadmap, even if it’s just six months ahead.

Key Bytes

• Burnout often begins with unclear goals and missing systems; clarity is the antidote.

• Leah outlines four agency owner archetypes—the Trusting Optimist, Firefighting Founder, Reluctant Gatekeeper, and Visionary Leader—and how operators help each evolve.

• Delegation isn’t dumping tasks; it’s empowering your team with context and ownership.

• Documenting the “why” behind your systems drives consistency and accountability.

• Operators create the scaffolding for scale—allowing founders to focus on vision, not firefighting.

• Every agency, regardless of size, benefits from an AI Ops roadmap to guide internal efficiency.

• Start with what you already have—processes, checklists, or recurring workflows—and build from there.

• Systems don’t kill creativity; they protect it by removing chaos and decision fatigue.

Chapters

00:00 Intro and welcome with guest Leah Leaves, founder of Alderaan Operations Solutions

02:00 The Star Wars origin of “Alderaan” and Leah’s path from journalism to operations

05:30 From creative to systems thinker: finding flow in operations

08:00 How unclear goals and missing systems cause bottlenecks

10:00 Guardrails vs. micromanagement: empowering the team without overengineering

13:00 The burnout cycle and why delegation is a creative act

15:00 The four types of agency owners and their operational challenges

20:00 Shifting from bottleneck to visionary: the operator’s role in scaling

23:30 Why every agency needs an AI ops roadmap

26:30 Putting “robots” in the org chart and making automation work

29:00 Low-hanging AI wins: onboarding, recruiting, and workflow automation

32:00 Rapid-fire Q&A: distilling systems, theme songs, and unexpected client wins

34:45 Closing thoughts and where to find Leah

Leah Leaves is the Founder of Alderaan Operations Solutions, where she helps remote digital marketing agencies grow without the grind. Known for her no-fluff, systems-first approach, she and her team embed expert Operations Managers directly into agencies to break bottlenecks, reduce burnout, and build businesses that can scale without the founder in every decision.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/1eah1eaves/

https://alderaanenterprise.com/

http://agencyownerquiz.com/

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In episode 130, I sit down with Peter Lang—co-founder of Digital Agency Business and AVA, and longtime agency acquirer—to unpack how agency owners can use M&A as a growth superpower. Peter shares the seven-day deal that doubled his agency’s revenue, the due-diligence signals that actually matter (talent, client stickiness, and contracts), why most M&A fails on culture not math, and how AI is reshaping hiring and service models. We also get into founder identity after the sale, what “professional maturity” looks like, and why many owners are really capital allocators in the making.

Key Bytes

• M&A can compress years of organic growth into months—if you underwrite people, clients, and terms before the numbers.

• Culture fit and integration planning beat fancy spreadsheets; most failed deals are value misalignment, not valuation.

• AI is wiping out entry-level tasks first; the winners redeploy A-players and teach clients how to use AI, not hide from it.

• Founder-led sales can’t be the only engine; build repeatable sales capacity that survives distractions.

• You already “work for” whoever pays you—selling changes the customer, not your agency DNA.

• Treat time like capital: budget it, forecast it, and review it like an effective executive.

Chapters

00:00 Cold open, quick re-intro

01:08 The seven-day deal that doubled revenue

03:32 Doing three deals in 90 days during COVID

06:36 Common seller misconceptions and Peter’s deal lens

09:19 Endurance mindset, calendars, and operating like an athlete

13:46 What buyers actually look for beyond the numbers

17:43 AI’s impact on talent, delivery, and survival to 2027

22:10 Life after the sale and “professional maturity”

24:51 Rapid fire: celebrating wins, the race that changed him, dream acquisition

27:45 Where to learn more (digitalagencybusiness.com)

Resources mentioned

• Effective Executive by Peter Drucker (time tracking and retrospective)

• GrowthHackers community (context on Peter’s portfolio)

• digitalagencybusiness.com (Peter’s M&A training and upcoming book)

Peter Lang is an entrepreneur, investor, and philanthropist with over 15 years of experience building, buying, and selling companies across online publishing, media, advertising, e-commerce, and consulting. He’s the co-founder and Chief M&A Officer at AVA, a fast-growing digital agency holding company acquiring businesses in the $1–10 million range.

Peter also runs Digital Agency Business (DAB), an e-learning company that trains entrepreneurs to launch and scale their own agencies. A former CEO of Uhuru Network and advisor to multiple companies, Peter’s passion lies in using mergers and acquisitions to accelerate growth. An endurance athlete and family man, he lives by the belief that anything is achievable with hard work.

Contact Peter:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterclang/

https://digitalagencybusiness.com/

In episode 124, I sit down with Joe Rojas, founder of Start Grow Manage and author of How Entrepreneurs Thrive. Joe has built and sold multiple MSPs, each time leveraging the power of deep niching to accelerate growth. We talk about the pivotal inflection points in a business’s lifecycle, why niching works across any industry, and how systems and values create businesses that can run—and grow—without the owner. Joe shares his framework for moving from “job” to “business,” the core values that drive his work, and how agencies can increase profitability by solving real business problems for clients. We also discuss the parallels between MSPs and agencies when it comes to client retention, lifetime value, and building a life you actually want to live.

Key Bytes

• Niching accelerates growth because it clarifies your offer and your audience

• The difference between a lifestyle job and a lifestyle business is scale and delegation

• Core values must be discovered, not invented—and hiring should be based on them

• Profitability can start with your existing clients, not just new ones

• Long-term success comes from solving clients’ business problems, not just delivering services

Chapters

00:00 Welcome and guest intro

01:06 Joe’s journey from the Army to building and selling MSPs

03:18 Understanding the “Start, Grow, Manage” stages

05:03 Why Joe wrote How Entrepreneurs Thrive

06:33 The $1M inflection point and profitability mindset

08:16 Helping clients reclaim their time and freedom

12:20 Building core values that drive the business

16:46 Hiring for abundance mindset and cultural fit

21:07 How Joe’s book applies to agencies today

24:07 Why technology changes but strategy doesn’t

26:08 Expanding accounts by solving deeper problems

28:37 Mapping the client journey for better results

30:21 Rapid fire questions and closing thoughts

Joe is the Founder at Start Grow Manage, based in New York, and author of How Entrepreneurs Thrive. He empowers Managed Service Providers and entrepreneurs to overcome the challenges of business formation to create profitable, growing businesses. As a serial entrepreneur himself, he has faced the challenge of making new and growing businesses work. His career started in the military, where he became an expert in information technology, eventually forming his own managed services company. Through that experience, he discovered the formula for businesses and learned that entrepreneurs are good at what they do but struggle to build a business.

https://startgrowmanage.com

In episode 123, I sit down with Jenny Plant, founder of Account Management Skills, to talk about why strong account management is the secret weapon for agency growth. Drawing on over 25 years of experience on both the agency and client side, Jenny shares how she helps account managers develop the skills, confidence, and mindset to grow accounts without feeling “salesy.” We discuss the challenges of hybrid AM/PM roles, how to spot rising account management stars, and why curiosity and relationship skills often outweigh industry knowledge. Jenny also dives into her “Four P’s” of AI for account managers—Productivity, Personalization, Prescribe, and Predict—showing how technology can boost proactivity and client value. We wrap with insights on setting growth targets, charging for account management, and building a culture that celebrates account wins as much as new business.

Key Bytes

• Account growth starts with training AMs to be proactive, not just reactive service providers

• Hybrid AM/PM roles often fail to drive growth because delivery takes priority over development

• Curiosity and relationship skills can be more valuable than industry expertise

• AI can help AMs be more productive, personalize interactions, prescribe solutions, and predict client needs

• Co-creating growth targets with AMs boosts buy-in and accuracy

• Celebrating account growth fosters a culture where client retention and expansion matter as much as net new business

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Jenny Plant & Account Management Skills

02:20 Why sales training is vital for account managers

04:16 The challenge of hybrid AM/PM roles in driving growth

08:58 Traits of successful account managers

11:32 Hiring AMs from outside the agency world

13:14 Jenny’s Four P’s of AI for account managers

18:19 Proactivity and presenting ideas to clients

20:38 Co-creating account growth targets

22:55 Charging for account management services

24:36 How many accounts can one AM manage effectively?

28:15 Creating a culture that celebrates account growth

Jenny Plant is the founder of Account Management Skills a training company helping agency account managers retain client relationships and grow accounts.

Jenny has over 25 years in agency account management and has also worked client-side in marketing for an international airline and pharmaceutical company.

Her account management training programmes blend proven client growth methodologies with the integration of AI tools, helping agencies stay relevant, efficient, and proactive.

She also hosts the Creative Agency Account Manager Podcast, where she shares insights and interviews to elevate the agency-client relationship management standards across the industry.

https://accountmanagementskills.com/

Ep 122 – Arielle Cohen, Business 411 – Building Scalable Systems for a Multi-Seven Figure Agency

In episode 122, I sit down with Ariel Cohn, founder of Marketing 411 and CMO of Business 401, to talk about how she scaled a multi–seven figure agency by going all-in on the roofing niche. Ariel shares why niching transformed their operations, how they built scalable systems and sister companies to serve the industry, and why embracing AI and virtual teams has been key to their growth. We also dive into the mindset shifts required to build an agency that supports your lifestyle — instead of running you into the ground.

Key Bytes

• Niching down creates clarity, repeatable systems, and faster scaling opportunities

• A sister company approach can build trust and open new revenue streams

• Retainer-based models help stabilize cash flow and increase profitability

• Virtual teams and offshore talent can boost efficiency without sacrificing quality

• Embracing AI is no longer optional — it’s essential for agency survival and growth

Chapters

00:01 Intro and Ariel’s background in roofing marketing

01:12 From generalist to roofing specialist: why niching was key

04:44 Myths about niching and lessons from going all-in

07:32 Defining the ideal client profile and setting minimums

09:00 Early challenges and focusing on revenue first

12:34 Building two complementary companies for growth

16:22 Leveraging virtual teams, overseas talent, and AI for scale

19:07 Retainer models vs. one-off projects for stable growth

20:29 Staying hungry and setting bigger goals

23:18 Embracing AI and adapting to industry change

25:10 Rapid fire: worst advice, daily habits, and explaining her job to a 5-year-old

Arielle Cohen is the Co-Founder of Marketing 411 and CMO of Business 411. With over a decade of experience in marketing, she has mastered the art of growing a Multi 7 Figure Agency through building a scalable and efficient operation. As the company grows, her focus has shifted to optimizing her time and building a dream company that supports her vision and lifestyle—without letting the business take over.

www.marketing411.com

www.business411.com

Social: @arielleCEO

Ep 121 – Shawn Johnston, Forge and Smith – Profitable by Design: Streamlining Dev Without Cutting Corners

In episode 121, I sit down with Shawn Johnston, founder of Forge and Smith and creator of Refoundry—a low-code WordPress platform that’s transforming how agencies build and deliver websites. We talk about how Shawn cut delivery time by 70%, turned profit margins around using the Profit First method, and transitioned his agency toward a scalable, productized model. He shares insights on navigating developer pushback, balancing client empowerment with agency control, and preparing for evolving tech shifts like AI in web development. Whether you’re struggling with project bottlenecks, shrinking budgets, or scaling challenges, Shawn’s story offers a clear path forward for building smarter, more profitable systems.

Key Bytes• Refoundry cut Forge and Smith’s development time by 70%, transforming profitability.

• Adopting Profit First changed their approach to pricing and overhead limits.

• Client empowerment through low-code builds loyalty and drives referrals.

• Transitioning leadership allowed Shawn’s team to grow into bigger roles.

• Technological shifts (like Webflow and AI) demand constant agency adaptation.

• Productizing an internal tool opened new revenue streams beyond services.

• Balancing developer pride with client needs is critical for successful adoption.

• Early lessons in print taught Shawn to anticipate and embrace industry change.

Chapters00:01 Introduction to Shawn Johnston and Forge and Smith

02:11 Moving from freelance to full agency and early challenges

04:39 Implementing Profit First and shifting to scalable systems

06:38 Why Refoundry: Bringing low-code to WordPress

08:22 Cutting development time and improving project profitability

11:23 Developer pushback and prioritizing client empowerment

14:44 Evolving Refoundry into a product for other agencies

17:03 Transitioning leadership and building team collaboration

24:17 Preparing for tech shifts like AI and staying nimble in delivery

28:30 Rapid fire questions and final reflections

​​

Shawn Johnston is the founder of Forge and Smith, a digital agency that’s launched over 500 websites in the past 13 years. After hitting the usual delivery bottlenecks and burnout cycles, he built Refoundry—a low-code platform for WordPress that helped his team cut build times by 70% and scale without sacrificing quality. Now he’s on a mission to help other agencies streamline delivery, boost margins, and build systems that actually work.

Contact Shawn:

https://refoundry.io

https://forgeandsmith.com

In episode 120, I sit down with Greg Bellinger, co-founder and CEO of White Rabbit, a web and mobile development agency with nearly 100 in-house employees spread across Colombia, India, and the U.S. Greg shares his journey from frontend developer to visionary CEO and breaks down how White Rabbit scaled by staying focused on one niche—supporting other agencies.

We explore why White Rabbit only hires full-time employees, how niching into agency delivery gave them a competitive edge, and the strategic thinking behind launching their own internal project financial software. Greg also talks about his passion for creation, not just in code but in culture, leadership, and future products. This one’s full of takeaways for agency owners looking to scale with purpose.

Key Bytes

• Greg shares why they only hire full-time employees and the cultural benefits that come with it

• He explains how niching into working with agencies helped them scale more efficiently

• Greg reflects on stepping away from product management and letting his leadership team shine

• He talks about the challenges of managing across three countries and how they keep their culture unified

• Greg reveals details about their custom-built project management and financial tool

• He offers insight into people management, tough conversations, and protecting your energy

• He shares his personal philosophy of “create,” from coding to building culture

• Greg discusses what entrepreneurship means to him and how it’s been part of his DNA from the start

Chapters

00:00 Welcome and guest intro

01:00 The origin of White Rabbit and its full-time hiring philosophy

02:30 Transitioning out of coding and project management

06:00 Working exclusively with agencies vs. going direct

07:15 Niching and its impact on growth and clarity

10:00 Scaling globally: why Colombia, India, and the U.S.

12:00 Uniting culture across three countries

14:00 Vision for the future: stepping back, launching products

16:30 Building internal software for project and financial management

19:00 Lessons in people management and entrepreneurship

25:00 Rapid fire: guilty pleasures, two-word advice, and dream hire

Greg Bellinger is the Co-Founder and CEO of White Rabbit Group, a web and mobile development agency with a fully in-house team of nearly 100 employees across three countries. His passion for technology began in childhood, leading him to hand-code his first websites in 2008. In 2016, he co-founded White Rabbit Group, building it into a trusted development partner for world-class agencies and creatives. Under his leadership, the company has earned a reputation for delivering high-quality digital solutions while fostering a close culture of technical experts.

Contact Greg:

https://whiterabbit.group/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-bellinger/

In episode 119, I sit down with Jessica Malnik, a B2B messaging strategist who’s helped over 75 founders and lean marketing teams craft content that actually gets read—and drives results. We talk about the risks of over-commoditized content in the age of AI and why a flood of “cheap” output isn’t a strategy. Jessica walks me through her signature framework, the Marketing MOAT, which focuses on Messaging, Distribution, and Content Efficiency.

She also shares practical, low-lift ways agencies can build content machines, maximize existing assets, and stay consistent without burning out. We even talk about content imposter syndrome, the curse of knowledge, and why you don’t have to be totally unique—you just need to show up as yourself.

If you’ve ever struggled with creating content that converts (and keeps converting), this episode is packed with clarity, systems, and smart takes that’ll help you raise your signal-to-noise ratio.

Key Bytes

• Messaging without a unique perspective leads to content that gets ignored

• AI-only content creation can dilute your brand and commoditize your services

• Her “Marketing MOAT” framework focuses on messaging, distribution, and content efficiency

• Distribution must be built into strategy from the beginning, not as an afterthought

• Agencies should reuse and repurpose evergreen content instead of always creating new

• Consistency (3x/week on LinkedIn) matters more than frequency spikes

• Authenticity in content doesn’t mean oversharing—it means resonance

• Set goals based on team size, budget, and business stage, then reverse engineer your strategy

Chapters

00:01 Welcome and intro to Jessica Malnik

01:46 Common agency messaging mistakes

03:26 Why AI-only content is risky for agencies

05:14 Jessica’s Marketing MOAT framework explained

07:21 How to develop “spiky” messaging and content positioning

10:34 Distribution strategy: where your audience actually is

14:04 Own your content—don’t rely only on social algorithms

15:09 Content efficiency and repurposing systems

19:00 Best practices for publishing frequency

21:16 Balancing personal and professional content

22:28 Reverse engineering content strategy based on goals

23:41 Rapid Fire Q&A with Jessica

Jessica Malnik has helped over 75 B2B founders and lean marketing teams fix their positioning and craft messaging people actually read and respond to.

I’ve spoken at half a dozen in-person conferences in the U.S., Australia, and Thailand, as well as dozens of virtual webinars, workshops, and podcast guest appearances.

I’ve also been featured in WSJ, The Next Web, MicroConf, Wynter, SXSW, and MSN UK, among many others.

Contact Jessica:

https://jessicamalnik.com/newsletter/

https://www.theremoteworktribe.com/

Ep 118 – Jamie Brindle – From Freelancer to Entrelancer: Building a Business That Scales

In episode 118, I’m joined by Jamie Brindle—a freelancer, strategist, and creator who’s built a half-million-strong audience around helping creative solopreneurs build sustainable, scalable freelance businesses. In this conversation, Jamie breaks down what it means to be an “Entrelancer”—a hybrid of entrepreneur and freelancer—and why the traditional view of freelancing is overdue for a reboot.

We talk about why having an audience builds instant trust, how freelancers can evolve into business owners without employees, and the myths around websites and portfolios that keep too many creatives stuck in planning mode instead of taking action. Jamie also shares a powerful framework for moving strangers into long-term client relationships—and why every freelancer should be thinking like a strategist, not just a task-taker.

Whether you’re freelancing, running an agency, or somewhere in between, this one’s packed with fresh thinking.

Key Bytes

• Jamie shares the origin of the term “Entrelancer”—and how it reflects a more modern, business-minded freelancer.

• He explains how their TikTok content (originally not for clients) unexpectedly opened doors to Fortune 100 opportunities.

• We dig into the importance of digital products, productized services, and building systems to support time freedom.

• Jamie outlines the four stages of the customer journey: Stranger → Lead → Client → Client for Life.

• He gives a masterclass in how to manufacture delight, over-deliver, and secure repeat work.

• We challenge the sacred cows of freelancer websites and portfolios—and why Jamie believes they’re massive time-wasters.

• Sales anxiety? Jamie offers a grounded, simple mindset shift that removes pressure and focuses on being helpful.

• He explains how positioning yourself as a solution—not a task-taker—is the unlock to charging more and building authority.

Chapters

00:00 Welcome and Intro to Jamie Brindle

01:00 The accidental power of TikTok and building trust

04:30 Redefining success as a freelancer

07:00 “Entrelancer” vs. freelancer: What’s the difference?

11:40 Scaling without employees: Productized and digital offers

13:00 Pivoting from video work to social media consulting

15:25 Lessons from shifting services and getting back in the field

19:30 Jamie’s four stages of the customer journey

24:00 Reframing sales: It’s just solving a problem

28:00 Positioning yourself as a strategic partner

34:00 Why portfolios and websites are the biggest time wasters

37:00 Final thoughts and closing

Jamie Brindle is a freelancer who gives advice to over half a million other creatives on social media about building a scalable and sustainable freelance business.

Contact Jamie:

Www.jamiebrindle.io

@thejamiebrindle on all socials