In episode 144, I’m joined by Ali Mirza, a sales expert who’s personally closed over $450 million in revenue and advised hundreds of high-growth companies, including multiple Inc. 500 winners and successful exits.

Ali and I dig into what’s really broken in agency sales today — from why “more leads” isn’t the answer, to how founders unintentionally sabotage deals, to the mindset shifts required to close larger, more confident engagements. This conversation is especially relevant for agency owners who are great at delivery but feel stuck, uncomfortable, or inconsistent when it comes to selling.

We talk candidly about sales systems vs. sales personalities, the danger of winging it, and how agencies can move from reactive selling to intentional, scalable growth without becoming someone they’re not.

Key Bytes

• Why “just getting more leads” rarely fixes agency sales problems

• The hidden mindset traps that keep agency owners underpricing

• How confidence (not pressure) actually drives better close rates

• The difference between selling expertise vs. selling outcomes

• Why inconsistent sales processes hurt valuation and scalability

Chapters

00:00 Why agency sales feels harder than it should

04:32 The biggest sales myths agency owners believe

09:15 Why confidence matters more than scripts

14:40 Selling outcomes vs. selling services

20:05 How founders accidentally sabotage deals

26:18 Pricing fear and the psychology behind it

32:10 Building a repeatable sales process

38:45 What great agency sales leadership really looks like

44:20 Final advice for agency owners who hate selling

Ali Mirza is a sales expert who has personally closed over $450 million in sales with multiple Inc. 500 companies and high-growth startups.

His work has been featured in Inc., Forbes, Huffington Post, Business Insider, and more. He has consulted for hundreds of companies, with 17 earning the Inc. 500 Fastest Growing Companies award and three successfully acquired. He is president of Atlanta-based consulting firm, Rose Garden.

Connect with Ali:

alimirza.com

rosegardenconsulting.com

IG: @alimirza.rgc

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In episode 143, I dig into one of the most underestimated risks in agency ownership: the legal blind spots that quietly cost agencies millions over time.

From contracts and scope creep to client disputes, IP ownership, and liability exposure, we unpack where agencies unknowingly put themselves at risk — and why most don’t realize it until it’s too late.

This conversation is a must-listen for agency owners who want to protect what they’ve built, reduce unnecessary exposure, and stop treating legal as an afterthought instead of a growth safeguard.

Key Bytes

• Most agencies don’t realize their biggest legal risks until a problem hits

• Poor contracts quietly drain profit long before lawsuits happen

• Scope creep is as much a legal issue as it is a pricing issue

• IP ownership mistakes can create long-term client and valuation problems

• Proactive legal structure is a growth advantage, not a cost center

Chapters

00:00 Why legal blind spots are so common in agencies

04:15 The contracts agencies rely on (and why they fall short)

10:20 Scope creep as a legal and financial issue

18:05 IP ownership mistakes that come back years later

26:40 Client disputes: where agencies expose themselves

34:10 Risk vs. fear: what actually matters legally

42:00 Simple fixes agency owners can make now

50:10 How legal hygiene protects valuation and exit

56:30 Final thoughts & wrap-up

Sharon Toerek is Founder of Toerek Law (doing business in the agency world as Legal + Creative), where she focuses her national law practice on helping advertising, marketing, communications and creative agencies protect their assets and turn their ideas into revenue.

Sharon provides proactive, strategic counsel to communications, marketing, advertising, digital and creative agencies on legal and business issues they face continually in their work, including:

• agency-client relationships, including agency service contracts

• agency-freelancer and agency strategic alliance relationship management

• trademark and copyright protection, enforcement and licensing

• influencer marketing negotiations and content marketing legal compliance

• advertising regulatory compliance

• AI policy and risk management for agencies

Sharon is an approved participant on the 4A's Legal Consultants Panel, and a member of the 4A’s Expert Network. She has also served as President of the American Ad Federation (AAF) Cleveland and has been elected to AAF Cleveland’s Hall of Fame.

In addition to her Firm’s work representing U.S. independent agencies, Sharon

• Created the Legal + Creative Agency Protection System, a comprehensive legal education and legal toolkit for marketing, ad and creative services agencies

• Created and hosted over 300 episodes of the agency-focused podcast The Innovative Agency, a podcast about innovation and trends in the marketing agency world

• Presents sessions on agency-critical legal topics to independent agency networks, to private agency audiences, and at industry conferences including INBOUND, Content Marketing World, MAICON, the Build a Better Agency Summit, Own It Summit, Mirren New York, and PRSA Counselors Academy.

Contact Sharon:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharontoerek/

https://legalandcreative.com/

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In episode 142, I sit down with Amy Maxwell, founder and creative director of Maxwell Design, to talk about the real tension small creative shops face: how do you grow without sacrificing the craft that made you successful in the first place?

We dig into what it looks like to evolve from “hands-on designer” to “agency leader,” how to protect quality as you add capacity, and how to make smart choices about clients, process, and scope so growth doesn’t turn into chaos. If you want to scale with intention (and still love the work), this one’s for you.

Key Bytes

• Scaling doesn’t have to mean sacrificing creative quality

• Your process is what protects the craft as you grow

• “Better clients” often solves what “more clients” can’t

• You can stay hands-on without being the bottleneck

• The right constraints create consistency, not limitation

• Hiring should reduce friction, not add management drag

• Clear scope and boundaries prevent quiet burnout

Chapters

00:00 Intro: scaling without losing the craft

02:10 Amy’s origin story and building Maxwell Design

06:20 The “stay small” choice and what it protects

11:05 When growth starts to strain quality (warning signs)

16:10 Processes that keep creative standards high

22:30 Team structure: support roles vs creative roles

28:40 Client fit, boundaries, and saying “no” earlier

34:15 Staying fulfilled while the business grows

40:20 Rapid-fire questions and wrap-up

Amy—Creative Director + Founder of Maxwell Design—has spent the last two decades helping businesses look their best. She’s an award-winning designer with a knack for reading minds and creating delightful visual experiences. Her solution-focused approach makes her someone you’ll want in any room. And her small (but mighty) team comes with some major design chops.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwelldesignco/

http://maxwelldesignco.com/

Ep 138 – Jordan Snider, Token Creative – The impact of integrating Ignition App

In episode 138, I sit down with Jordan Snider, co-founder and CTO of Token Creative Services, to break down the real impact of integrating Ignition App into their agency operations. Jordan shares how Token went from scattered proposals, manual invoices, and nearly $40k in aging AR to a streamlined, single-system workflow that clients actually appreciated.

We dig into the operational before/after: centralized proposals and agreements, automated billing, faster close rates, clearer scope definition, easier upsells and renewals, and the elimination of unbilled “mystery hours.” Jordan also talks about forecasting clarity — and why dashboards that tie proposals, renewals, and revenue projections together are a game changer for decision-making.

This episode is a grounded look at what happens when an agency stops tolerating a duct-taped sales and billing process and finally upgrades the operational spine of the business.

Key Bytes

• Token’s breaking point was nearly $40k in aging AR — a clear sign the proposal and billing process was broken.

• Clients were confused by multiple proposal versions, scattered contracts, and manual payments; consolidating everything through Ignition simplified the entire client experience.

• The biggest financial lift came from capturing previously unbilled variable hours and out-of-scope work.

• Automated reminders and stored payment methods dramatically reduced AR and manual follow-up.

• Forecasting became easier with visible open proposals, renewal pipelines, and year-over-year revenue projections.

• Simplifying the tech stack cut both software cost and constant integration maintenance.

• Ignition enabled Token to shift from hourly pricing to value-driven retainers because operations finally supported it.

• Jordan’s advice: delaying this overhaul guarantees regret — proactively fixing it avoids the forced crisis moment.

Chapters

00:00 Intro and why Token’s Ignition story matters

02:05 Token’s early days and “brute force” agency ops

03:10 The $40k AR wake-up call

05:10 What was broken in their proposal + onboarding workflow

06:55 Client reactions after switching to Ignition

07:50 Close rates, renewals, and handling scope creep

09:40 Capturing unbilled work and shrinking AR

11:55 Forecasting and metrics that changed decision-making

14:00 Simplifying the tech stack and ditching integrations

16:40 How clarity improved both scope and service delivery

23:40 Productizing services and shifting to retainers

25:05 Jordan’s advice for agencies resisting the overhaul

26:50 Rapid fire and wrap-up

Jordan Snider is the Co-Founder and CTOof Token Creative Services, a full-service digital marketing and creative agency based in Kitchener-Waterloo. With a background in full-stack software engineering, Jordan bridges the gap between technical development and creative marketing. He has contributed personal reflections to platforms supporting victims of family violence, discussing the unique stressors faced by newcomers and the importance of community support systems.

His work reflects a blend of technical precision and a commitment to social impact, aligning with Token Creative’s mission to support businesses making positive environmental or social changes.

token.ca

ignitionapp.info/agencybytes-trial

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In Episode 093 of Agency Bytes, I sat down with Jonathan Stark — a former software developer turned pricing consultant — to dig into a topic that trips up so many agencies: hourly billing vs. value-based pricing.

Jonathan shared how he made the shift from trading time for money to focusing on the value his work delivers. What started as a few talks with agencies grew into a full-blown movement — writing books, delivering content, and building a thriving community of creative professionals ditching the hourly model.

We talked about why hourly billing holds agencies back, the importance of deeply understanding client needs, and how to craft pricing options that reflect the true value you provide. Jonathan’s insights on uncovering client motivations and taking a more strategic approach to pricing will help you build stronger client relationships and increase profitability.

If you’re tired of being stuck in the “billable hour” mindset, this episode is packed with actionable advice you won’t want to miss.

Key Bytes

• Hourly billing limits income potential.

• Understanding client outcomes is crucial for pricing.

• Scope should be defined after understanding client needs.

• Value-based pricing can lead to higher profits.

• Creating multiple pricing options can attract clients.

• Time tracking is unnecessary in a value-based model.

• Client motivations should drive the sales conversation.

• Different levels of engagement affect pricing strategies.

• Value pricing enhances client relationships.

• Being unique in your offering is essential for success.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Ditching Hourly Billing

06:01 Understanding Client Needs and Outcomes

11:45 Creating Pricing Options for Clients

17:47 Uncovering Client Motivations

23:54 The Home Run of Value Pricing

Jonathan Stark is a former software developer who is on a mission to rid the world of hourly billing. He is the author of Hourly Billing Is Nuts, the host of Ditching Hourly, and writes a daily newsletter on pricing for independent professionals.

https://jonathanstark.com/

In episode 067, I had an enlightening conversation with Jenny Magic, founder and author of "Build Better Change." We delved into the tough but crucial challenges of implementing internal change within organizations and explored how agencies can play a pivotal role in fostering adoption. Jenny passionately emphasizes the significance of building long-term client relationships and partnering through the change and adoption journey.

Jenny sheds light on the necessity for agencies to identify potential roadblocks early and engage in difficult conversations upfront to ensure smooth implementation. She shares invaluable tips, such as validating project needs with multiple stakeholders, conducting confidential inquiry interviews to uncover hidden challenges, and prioritizing trust and rapport with clients. Jenny also underscores the importance of empathy, employee engagement, and psychological safety within organizations.

This episode is packed with practical advice and insights for agencies looking to drive successful change and make a lasting impact. Don’t miss out on Jenny’s expert strategies and thoughtful perspectives!

Key Takeaways

• Building long-term relationships with clients is crucial for agencies to ensure successful implementation of projects.

• Agencies should surface potential roadblocks and have difficult conversations early on in the process.

• Validating the need for a project with multiple stakeholders and obtaining senior-level buy-in is important for successful adoption.

• Conducting confidential inquiry interviews can help uncover potential challenges and build trust with clients.

• Empathy, employee engagement, and psychological safety are key factors in fostering adoption within organizations.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background

07:08 The Impact on Agencies

12:11 Surfacing Roadblocks: Having Difficult Conversations

23:11 The Importance of Relationships and Change

27:04 Final Advice: This Too Shall Pass

When leaders want to win back employee willingness, accelerate innovation, and reduce change fatigue, they call Jenny Magic. As a nationally recognized speaker, author, and advisor, Jenny is the founder of Build Better Change and co-author of the organizational change bestseller, Change Fatigue: Flip Teams From Burnout to Buy-In (2023). She has successfully led extensive projects with renowned organizations throughout her career, including Sesame Workshop, AARP, Citrix, Prudential, Acxiom, Alcon, Purdue University, Experian, US Bank, Cisco, and many others. She loves using the marketing strategies she's honed over two decades to motivate teams to do their best work.

Contact Jenny:

website: https://buildbetterchange.com

Change Fatigue book and Build Better Buy-In online course: https://changefatigue.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennymagic/

In this episode, I had the incredible opportunity to interview Gabe Levine from Matchstick Legal, a top-notch attorney specializing in representing creative businesses. Gabe brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to the table, making this a must-listen episode for anyone in the creative industry.

We dive deep into some of the hottest topics facing agencies today. Ever worried about protecting your creative work from copycats? Gabe shares essential strategies and legal insights to safeguard your intellectual property. We also tackle the crucial task of reviewing and updating contracts to ensure they’re airtight and up-to-date with the latest legal standards.

Gabe unpacks the complexities of GDPR and privacy regulations, breaking down what they mean for your agency and how to stay compliant. He also emphasizes the importance of perspective and leverage in negotiations, providing practical tips to help you navigate these often challenging discussions.

Whether you're an agency owner, creative professional, or just interested in the legal side of the creative world, this episode is packed with valuable insights and actionable advice. Don't miss out on this engaging conversation with one of the leading legal minds in the industry!

Key Takeaways

• Having a relationship with an attorney as an agency owner is important for protecting creative work and navigating legal issues.

• Registering trademarks and copyrights can help protect creative work from copycats.

• Contracts should be reviewed and updated regularly to ensure they align with the agency's current practices and protect their interests.

• GDPR and privacy regulations are important considerations for agencies, and compliance can be complex.

• Having perspective and creating leverage are key in negotiations, but sometimes compromises need to be made to secure work.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background

05:28 Protecting Creative Work from Copycats

11:38 Reviewing and Updating Contracts

Gabe is an attorney specializing in representing creative and technical businesses in commercial transactions. He's a shareholder in and president of Matchstick Legal, Inc. Gabe lives in Marin County, California with his wife Holly, daughter Kate and dog Scully. He's a very average gravel cyclist but enjoys it quite a bit.

Connect with Gabe:

matchstick.legal

https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabriellevine/

In episode 54, I got to sit with Mark Riggs from Pemberton, a consultant and coach for agencies. He shares his insights on shifting from the RFP rat race to building organic growth of existing and new clients. He emphasizes the importance of solving client problems and being proactive in account growth. Mark discusses the need to set expectations with clients from the beginning and continuously communicate and collaborate with them. He also highlights the value of focusing on organic growth and investing the same energy and innovation into existing clients as in winning new business. Mark advises agency owners to start out with defined principles and have patience in their journey. Tune in to hear his top secrets on nailing organic account growth.

Takeaways

Focus on solving client problems and being proactive in account growth.

Set expectations with clients from the beginning and continuously communicate and collaborate with them.

Invest the same energy and innovation into existing clients as in winning new business.

Start out with defined principles and have patience in your agency journey.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background

01:04 Shift in Biz Dev and Account Growth

09:36 Setting Expectations and Scoping

14:21 Operational Scoping and Profitability

23:08 Lessons from Marketing During Downturns

25:49 Invaluable Business Advice

Mark is the founder and CEO of Pemberton which is a management consultancy that exists to be the go-to resource for marketing/communications agencies to discover and reveal pathways to organic growth while changing the mindset of an RFP-obsessed industry.

Before starting Pemberton, Mark spent 20-plus years in the agency world working for IPG’s Mullen Lowe, an Ad Age A-List Agency, Taylor, the Holmes Report’s Consumer Agency of the Decade, MWWPR and French/West/Vaughan, the Southeast’s largest independent agency.

Mark has spent a career learning the art of integrated communication developing and executing award-winning consumer programs for brands and companies like Allstate, Honda, Ford, Kimberly-Clark, Polaris, Coke, Diageo, RJ Reynolds, SunTrust Banks, the U.S. Navy, the Atlantic Coast Conference and ESPN, to name a few.

Mark has a reputation as a business-builder and a strategic counselor and has experience in leading client services, insights and planning functions, as well as developing talent. A creative thinker and problem-solver, Mark believes that great thinking can “come from anywhere,” it’s the ability to harness it and leverage it for clients that makes the intellectual property of the agency valuable and an integral part of the marketing mix.

Contact Mark:

www.pembertonworldwide.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jmarkriggs/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/pembertonworldwide/