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Featuring: Ali Mirza, Rose Garden Consulting
In episode 144, I’m joined by Ali Mirza, a sales expert who’s personally closed over $450 million in revenue and advised hundreds of high-growth companies, including multiple Inc. 500 winners and successful exits.
Ali and I dig into what’s really broken in agency sales today — from why “more leads” isn’t the answer, to how founders unintentionally sabotage deals, to the mindset shifts required to close larger, more confident engagements. This conversation is especially relevant for agency owners who are great at delivery but feel stuck, uncomfortable, or inconsistent when it comes to selling.
We talk candidly about sales systems vs. sales personalities, the danger of winging it, and how agencies can move from reactive selling to intentional, scalable growth without becoming someone they’re not.
Key Bytes
• Why “just getting more leads” rarely fixes agency sales problems
• The hidden mindset traps that keep agency owners underpricing
• How confidence (not pressure) actually drives better close rates
• The difference between selling expertise vs. selling outcomes
• Why inconsistent sales processes hurt valuation and scalabilityChapters
00:00 Why agency sales feels harder than it should
04:32 The biggest sales myths agency owners believe
09:15 Why confidence matters more than scripts
14:40 Selling outcomes vs. selling services
20:05 How founders accidentally sabotage deals
26:18 Pricing fear and the psychology behind it
32:10 Building a repeatable sales process
38:45 What great agency sales leadership really looks like
44:20 Final advice for agency owners who hate selling
Ali Mirza is a sales expert who has personally closed over $450 million in sales with multiple Inc. 500 companies and high-growth startups.
His work has been featured in Inc., Forbes, Huffington Post, Business Insider, and more. He has consulted for hundreds of companies, with 17 earning the Inc. 500 Fastest Growing Companies award and three successfully acquired. He is president of Atlanta-based consulting firm, Rose Garden.
Connect with Ali on his personal website, his consulting website, or on his Instagram.
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Steve Guberman (00:01.258)
Welcome to Agency Bites. I'm your host, Steve Guberman from Agency Outsite. See, I screwed up my own intro. Take two. Welcome to Agency Bites. I'm your host, Steve Guberman from Agency Outsite, where I help agency owners build the business of their dreams. This week, I'm sitting down with someone who has sold a lot more than most of us sell in a lifetime. Alimirza is a sales powerhouse who has personally closed over $450 million in deals.
working with Inc 500 companies, fast growth startups and founders who want predictable revenue without the gimmicks. He's helped hundreds of companies sharpen their sales strategy. 17 of them landed on the Inc 500 list and three went on to be acquired. Today he runs Rose Garden, his Atlanta based sales consulting firm where he teaches teams how to sell with clarity, conviction and zero fluff. Ali, I'm thrilled to have you here today because we need to really work on sales for everybody.
Ali Mirza (00:52.674)
Thank you, I appreciate being here.
Steve Guberman (00:54.824)
Yeah, so what was your kind of sales journey? Some people start out selling knives door to door and other people, you know, sell insurance plans. Where'd you start into the sales world?
Ali Mirza (01:04.718)
Uh, literally that I was, I was the guy that would go door to door, life insurance, uh, to sell myself to get into your house. And you never saw me before, but the two hours I sat across from your dinner table, um, I had to get your medical, uh, history, checking account information on your social. And then I walked out and you never saw me again. And so did that for a number of years, built up a sales team of 50 reps that reported directly to me. We were the number one team in the country and I absolutely hated it. So I left.
Steve Guberman (01:09.651)
Okay.
Steve Guberman (01:34.73)
And then what to do from there, just act as a consultant.
Ali Mirza (01:38.822)
You know, those who cannot do teach. I started, I started up Rose garden and started working with agencies and, funded startups and started helping them build out their sales team. So that was about a shoot just over 10 years ago now, 11 years. So been doing that ever since.
Steve Guberman (01:53.396)
Alright.
And is Rose Garden focused typically on B2B service? What's your guys sweet spot?
Ali Mirza (02:03.566)
Service-based agencies, B2B is our sweet spot for sure.
Steve Guberman (02:09.16)
Okay, so taking them from what a million, two million in revenue to God knows what, sky is the limit.
Ali Mirza (02:14.574)
A slightly higher, I'd say kind of like on the low end, probably about three million, but our ideal clients between three and five million and they're, you how fast can we go from three to 30 million? And, you know, can we do it in 36 months? Can we do it, you know, 42 months, right? And that's usually the goal. Those are the projects we get hired on. I mean, if you want 10 % year over year growth, it's not gonna make sense to hire us.
Steve Guberman (02:36.126)
Yeah. So, all right. So you're accelerating growth at B2B agencies and doing it through all organic outbound sales. At what point is an agency ready to bring somebody like you in and start getting the owner out of the right? Because you're jumping in, the owner's typically in the sales seat. They're the sole breadwinner at that point. At what point, like, is that the right time for them?
Ali Mirza (03:03.118)
So I mean the short answer could really be, mean this is probably the salesiest answer, it's like as soon as they can afford it, right? And you know, people come with different circumstances, some people sold to different companies, whatever, know, want to cash out their 401k, SBA loan. I'm a salesman, right? I'm not your money manager. So you want to spend your money? Happy to take it. But I think, you the real answer honestly is once you get to a point where...
You've got some good wins. You've got some good case studies, but you know you are the bottleneck to growth and you want to start acting more like a CEO and less like a salesperson. Typically with most agencies, that is around the three to $4 million mark. cause again, we've got some good wins. We, we have a good understanding of who our ideal client is. We, again, we don't have all of these things dialed in yet, but we have a general understanding that then, you know, me and my team, we can come in on and start to really expand on that and, start to really create.
some really good strategies. So it gives us enough fodder to work with. It gives you enough runway and experience to be able to pull from. And then for us to start removing you, again, it doesn't happen overnight, but start removing you from the day to day of sales. How can we generate more opportunities? How can we take some of the smaller opportunities and have some junior reps work on it while you work on some of the bigger opportunities? Start bifurcating that pipeline and then those sales processes and then slowly start to remove you dated from different things and maybe
now you're only just showing up as the delicate genius on some of the larger deals. And then, know, not having to deal with all the follow-up and the closing and all of that, all of that, you know, semantics, dealing with purchasing and procurement. Like, we start to really get all of those things put in place. And then eventually one day you're no longer dealing with it, but you have clear...
confidence that things are getting handled properly. Because I think that's one of the biggest reasons why most founders do not remove themselves or take that off of their plate is because they're just so worried what's happening when I'm not there.
Steve Guberman (04:56.647)
Yeah, well that's with anything that they refuse to delegate, whether they know it or not. They don't trust who they put in place or they don't trust the process that they think that somebody else has built, so they're gonna micromanage it or hold onto it when really they need to delegate and let it go, whether it's sales or project management or delivery or whatever. What about positioning? So if you're coming in and you're selling, a lot of times there's that wall between sales and marketing and marketing's like, delivered all these leads and sales like we couldn't close them.
So there's that battle back and forth. Are you guys working with agencies on their positioning and getting them niched in or are you coming on board hoping they're already in that spot?
Ali Mirza (05:35.694)
No, we're usually helping them with all of that. mean, again, here's the thing I think a lot of people, there's a misnomer around it, is they think positioning is positioning. I have an immense amount of respect for...
marketing, like true marketing professionals, right? I mean, there's always that kid, you know, in his mom's basement, right? That's, I'm a marketer, right? It's like, sure you are, it's like, you true marketing professionals that actually have that pedigree, that have that understanding, there's a lot that goes into positioning a brand.
organization, but that is different than sales positioning. And so we will come in and help with that strategy and that positioning, but on that sales side, it's a lot more hand-to-hand combat. So we will work on that. And again, having been in the room with some very, very talented marketers, because I am not a marketer. I just had the pleasure of working with some really good marketers.
What I've found is nine times out of 10, it's the sales team's fault. Here's the thing, marketing delivered their leads, okay? Yeah, maybe they're not great leads, maybe some leads are better than other leads, and maybe some are spam and whatever. Totally understand, but the spam ones, the garbage leads, I'm gonna have swear, right? A little bit. The shit leads, right? We all know it, we know it from a mile away, right? But those are few and far between.
But most of the leads that the salespeople complain about are perfectly fine leads. They just don't happen to have their credit card out ready to buy. And while I'm sorry, what do you think your job is? When do you think a prospect, when does a salesperson's job start? It starts when the prospect says no. And that's what most salespeople don't understand. And most salespeople are sitting there being like, well, that wasn't Bant qualified.
Ali Mirza (07:28.91)
I think that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. It's like, so, you know, for the people that don't know bad budget need time authority, right? It's like, yeah, well, like, and water is wet. Like, what else do you want? Like, what are you getting paid for? Right? Where's the strategic prowess? What are you actually doing? Right? And most salespeople are doing literally nothing, right? They're a professional visitor. They show up, they ask some awful high level, surface level questions. If the person doesn't say, yep, I've got a half a million dollars to spend on, you know,
this and I'm the decision maker and I need to make a decision before the end of the month, right? They're like, wow, that's an awful lead. It's like, dude, do your job. And so I think, so a lot of times what I find is that, and it's like, okay, well, it wasn't the right decision maker. It's like, well, most decision makers don't do the preliminary search anyways. So you just need to know how to deal with that person that's the influencer or the person that's the gopher that's...
getting and shortlisting the agencies, right? Like, I'm sorry, that's your job, right? So like, I don't know, it's, yeah.
Steve Guberman (08:32.733)
Yeah. So let me ask you this then. How do you define sales?
Ali Mirza (08:43.054)
I mean, sales is pretty simple. mean, it's like, did somebody pay you? That's making a sale, right? Like if somebody didn't pay you for something, right? If a transaction does not take place, you did not engage in a sale. And so I think it's everything that leads up to it is your job, but then was the sale made and that's what you're paid for. Period.
Steve Guberman (08:47.145)
Okay. Yeah.
Steve Guberman (08:52.819)
Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Guberman (09:00.199)
Yeah, I ask that because I've gotten soft in sales in the past five years and I've taken a massive mindset shift. And I went through Sandler and want to have my agency. I use the hell out of it. And and we want a lot of business that maybe we shouldn't have one because what you're saying, it's not handed to you on a silver platter. That's when you're supposed to start doing sales and not I don't want to call manipulation, but like you want to get somebody to buy the knives. Right. And
In my coaching practice, I've taken a different stance where if the timing is right, if the money is there, if the opportunity and the need are there and I have the solution for what their problem is and they like me, that's the biggest thing, then let's do a deal. If you don't like me, here's five other people I'll introduce you to. I'd rather you choose the right person than choose me and realize a month or two later, this isn't the right engagement. And I think agencies, not that they take that mindset,
They want the revenue, they want the business, but they want business for long term, right? They don't want to have to keep re engaging on new clients when they can keep clients long term and grow them. And so when I think about sales from like the Kung Fu mastery of sales, that's what I think of, like getting people to buy when maybe they wouldn't otherwise have bought, but then is it going to last? that's long, like sidebar to what I was asking your like.
what you define sales as. And I don't know that you're like, you know, bending people's arms backwards like the mob to make them write a check. If you are, we'll do that off camera, but that's why I was asking.
Ali Mirza (10:33.698)
Yeah.
Ali Mirza (10:37.774)
Yeah, no, think, yeah, so I mean, look at it kind of three different ways, right? Somebody walks in and says, damn, Steve, like, that's exactly what I want. You know, we're completely aligned. Absolutely. Totally like, great. Take those. Right? Absolutely. And then there's the, you know, the other end of the spectrum where they're just like, dude, like, I don't want it. Like, um, a pyramid scheme or, or, or, know, Ponzi scheme or something like that, where you're fundamentally lying to these people, right? That's wrong. Like, I'm not even gonna bother like addressing that. Like, don't do that. Right? Like, okay.
But I think most of it is in the middle and this is what I fundamentally believe. Us as human beings, we're emotionally driven and the reality is we don't know what we want. But people just want some sort of change. at the end of the day, again, like I said, I'm not your money manager, I'm not your operations person, I'm not your production guy, I'm not the person that's gonna tell you how to run better Google Ads for your team. If you're that worried about ethics,
just get better at running Google ads. Don't look at me for selling deals that I shouldn't have sold. Like maybe just get better at your own delivery. How about that? Right? So, but what I'm simply saying is I'm assuming you know what you're doing. I'm assuming you're good. And when you tell me that, Hey, this is what we do. This is the service we provide. And we're really, we're damn good at it. And we just need people to do that. I take that and I put that in as a fact. And now I operate and now how I operate is this person.
you know, wants a change, this prospect wants a change, this prospect wants to achieve something. They don't know exactly how to go about getting it, but what they're really looking for is the confidence of somebody that can deliver it for them. Because sure as shit is if I don't do it for them, somebody else will. They will eventually make a decision. And it might be on marketing, it might not be on marketing, it might be on a trade show, right? So they might be on Google Ads, might be on a new website, might be on a trade show, might be on hiring somebody internally, it might be on buying flyers.
It might just be on sitting on their cash until they slowly run out of it, right? They're going to do something and doing nothing is something. It is a decision. And so the reality is, is I'm assuming that you know how to do what you say you do. And I'm just going to build a system that's going to allow for people to be able to select you and have that clear communication and position you in the best way possible. If that makes sense.
Steve Guberman (12:58.083)
Yeah, it makes perfect sense. And so when an agency is ready to do that and they're really good at something, their delivery can scale with the business that you're going to bring in for them. What do they need to have in place? guess in order to take advantage of what you're going to deliver for them. Like you're building out the sales process, you're building out funnel, MQL, SQL, that whole process, helping them with pricing. What should they have in place already?
Ali Mirza (13:25.484)
I think they have to have a firm understanding of what it is that they're delivering and what the value is that they're bringing. We'll obviously ask them lot of questions to understand how do we then turn around and position it to the client. Just because you know what it is that you're doing doesn't mean that the prospect understands it the exact same way. How do we put it into their language? We'll handle that part, but you need to know what it is that you're selling and what you want to be selling, what value it drives for them. Outside of that, if you have some case studies and some good wins, that's always really helpful.
I think for me, the number one factor for me is does this person actually want to grow? And that sounds like a of a silly question, but it really isn't because I think I said this to you on one of our first calls, everyone's a gangster until it's time to do some gangster shit. I was actually talking to one of my clients this morning and we were talking about setting the goal for the following year, which...
I mean, I don't know when this is gonna air, it's early December right now, which in my opinion, it's far too late. We should have had these numbers before, but nevertheless, I digress. And so he's just like, well, hang on, here's the deals that we have in the pipe. Here's the team, here's the capacity and this, that. I'm like, look, you're taking a very bottom-up approach, and I wanna take a top-down approach. I wanna look at it from a perspective of what do we need to do? What is the number we need to hit?
And then from there, it takes what it takes. Versus if you take this bottom up approach, you know, it's we're going to get what we get. And to me, that's just too reactive. That's too complacent. That's unintentional. And that's not why I got into this business. that's, and I truly believe that most people, you know, took themselves back to when they decided to start their business, right? Like, I hope you recall, like you knew you were taking a risk. You knew that it was going to take hard work and effort and you're going to have to do things that will make you uncomfortable.
But now all of sudden, you know, we've made a little bit, you know, when we had nothing to lose, we were prepared to gamble, uh, you know, with, with no money. But now that we've got something to lose, all of a sudden we're becoming very cagey and we're becoming very, um, you know, protective over that little bit. And I just think that honestly, you didn't work this hard only just to get this far. And if you did, then honestly, you probably should have just stuck it out at the DMV because I mean, that's, that's pretty certain. Um, but it's like, you didn't, you didn't take all, you don't have all this risk to just.
Steve Guberman (15:35.849)
Hmm.
Ali Mirza (15:48.335)
get this far. So I don't know. I think set big goals and be prepared to get uncomfortable and do the hard work because there's so many people that I'll tell them. I was talking to somebody last night and I was like, okay, well here's what we need to do X, Y, and Z. And they're like, and I'm like, and then this is how we're gonna, this is the strategy we'll deploy and then we'll put it positioned at this way. And they're like, don't you think that's a little bit pushy? And I looked at them and I was like, I don't know what you want me to say. Like that's what it's gonna take to get the job done. So like.
Like you might not like it, but like I can't help you with that. Right. But you only don't like it because it's first time you've ever heard of this. Right. And, and, and that's, and it's, making you uncomfortable. It's not pushy. It's direct. It's intentional, but you, you know, call it what it is. You're uncomfortable doing it. And that's not a negative thing. That's okay. That's actually a great thing because that's the sign of growth. Right. But don't label it. And I think that that's what we do too.
far too often, it's something that we don't understand or something that makes us uncomfortable. We love to just attack it and say, no, it's like, you can't do that. I'm like, no, no, you can't do that. I've done it plenty of times. And people are actually thanking me because it truncates the time. They're like, thank God. Now we don't have to deal with all of these other things. And again, when somebody's in the process and in the moment, if you create the right experience, and that's the thing that's really important to us is creating the right sales experience. If you create the right sales experience, people don't feel it that way. They don't feel that it's a transaction. And that's where, you
Pulling it off properly is important.
Steve Guberman (17:17.553)
I love that you said that like there's that mindset shift of if it's done a certain way that I'm, it's outside of my norm, I'm quick to defend and say that's wrong. And frankly, that's why they're bringing you in because what they've done has only gotten them so far, right? So let me bring in the pro and they're gonna execute what they're supposed to execute. And the other piece you talked about, I literally just had a call like two hours ago with PR firm on helping them close a piece of business. And the client has kicked 20 tires.
And I said, all right, cool. What are you going to do differently? And it was that same mindset. Like tell this, this client you've gotten this so far on taking risks, all of which look at the results they've gotten. Take, know, here's a risk that like, let's break through that reluctancy and talk about what is it going to look like on the other side of pulling this trigger and executing this engagement with the PR firm? Here's what we're going to deliver for you. Here's what the results could look like. Right. So going through that visual, a visualization process of
Like everything you've done to this point has gotten you here. Great. Take another risk and like stop kicking tires. You've wasted all this time and all this energy. And for a CEO to think about like time is money and money like why would you waste all that time and money? You know what mean? So I love that. I love that you pointed that out.
Ali Mirza (18:29.518)
You're never going to get it back. I think that, you know, I think we have, and I think this is a huge disservice that we perpetuate in society, which is, you know, these standard little sound bites that we think are responsible, right? Well, we need to think about it. It's like, hang on, what does that actually mean? Like, let's actually walk through the steps of what does it mean to think about it, right? Because it's a very easy thing to say. It's a very easy and conventional wisdom would tell you, yes, you should think about a decision before you pull the trigger.
What does that mean? What are the actual steps of thinking about it? What they're actually saying is, don't want to make a decision right now. I want to let the air out of the room. I want to alleviate myself of any real responsibility. Let me go home, sleep on it, because apparently this decision is a mattress. So we're going sleep on it. And then we're going to take some time. And then we're going to wait until our options leave us. And we're left with the only option, which is nine times out of 10, not the best option.
Right? And so we're to wait until we have no more options and then life will thrust us into what we have to do and be reactive to it. And so what they're really doing is they're saying, let me not make a decision. Right? And that, and, and, and what I always say is, look, you can think about it all you want, but like how many man hours are you actually going to spend thinking about it? And I think that most decisions people like, again, and the stats and the data and the studies all back me, right? Almost every single decision we make is made in our make-delay. It's a, it's an autonomous response.
and then we post rationalize everything with our prefrontal cortex. Okay? And so our executive functions only really help rationalize and justify what we are emotionally compelled to do. So that again, that's the big part of our sales process is emotionally compelling. That experience is emotionally compelling somebody to want to do something. Once that happens, one of our doctrines here is we always, we have a bias for action, which we stole from Amazon, but then I added to it, which was bias for action decision towards progress, right?
So we don't just think about it, I'm not just gonna, like, let's make a decision that helps us make progress. And if the decision is, I'm not going to sign right now, but what decision am I making? Indecision is not acceptable. So the decision is, okay, the decision is I'm going to do X, Y, and Z. And if this, then that. When I engage in this process of, you know, whatever, let's call it, do I wanna sign up for PPC services or graphic design services or a new website?
Ali Mirza (20:54.158)
Well, I need to go and look at X, Y and Z, whether it be another quote, whether it be something like, what am I looking for in that quote? Am I looking for something that's lower price or something that's better scoped? Right? And most of the, right. Like what are we doing here? And that is an actual decision. And that's a decision towards progress where I'm limiting my choices and getting rid of things that don't make any sense. And, and, and so for me, that's what I'm urging and ushering my clients to do and, and help them do that with their clients.
Steve Guberman (21:04.349)
What's the comparison you're looking for? Yeah.
Ali Mirza (21:23.438)
And then slowly what you start to find is that the options within that conversation start to go away very quickly. Because what you'll find is that not many things, if again, the sales process was done properly, not many things are comparable apple to apple. You're comparing apple to banana. And again, if we had that conversation, it'd be like, okay, so you really don't want to move forward with this because you're going to now, like we're talking about PPC services because you need more leads and you are not going to move forward with this because now you're going to go and consider what? A newspaper? The yellow pages?
Steve Guberman (21:50.922)
Hahaha
Ali Mirza (21:51.567)
And a lot of times, again, it's usually not that ridiculous, but it starts to become very clear, apples versus bananas. And it's just like, well, no, I need to look at other vendors. like, didn't. So again, if you just start doing that, and again, it doesn't mean you're get that close right there and then, but what you're doing is you're starting to help them make those decisions towards progress. And now you're planting the seeds in the mind of what they need to be doing rather than, let me think about it.
Go home, do nothing, wait till my dog gets pregnant and my wife cheats on me and then call you up and say, yeah, we're gonna push this next quarter.
Steve Guberman (22:23.177)
So that's one potential objection that people can see. Do you have a couple of other, like, I don't know, some of your favorite objections and how you handle them that you can run through?
Ali Mirza (22:35.714)
I mean, think that like, mean, objections, mean, like, I mean, there's always like, you know, the price objection, people wanting to do it cheaper. And it's like, to me, I'm just kind of like, you know, just got hustled 10 minutes ago. But, but no, I think, you know, when it comes to like price objections, like, I mean, I think usually a lot of times it's like, it's rare that like, people don't fundamentally fundamentally have the money, right? So whatever budget they tell you, right? So it's like last time, just think about the last time you bought a car, right? Let's just say your budget was $20,000 to buy a car. I've never
Steve Guberman (22:46.985)
you
Ali Mirza (23:04.878)
I remember the last time I bought a car, at least all my vehicles, but nevertheless, it's like, last time you bought a car, you walk in with $20,000 in your pocket, you're not telling them $20,000 is your budget, right? You're gonna tell them it's what, 14, 15, 16, or if you're my father, probably you're gonna tell them it's $7,000, right? And so it's like, okay, you know that that's human nature, you know that you do that, so what makes you think that they don't do that, right? And so the budget that they give you is really kind of pointless, the reality is, is really trying to understand what it is they want and effectively,
make it not possible for them to start negotiating with you on the price. And again, it's easier said than done about building the value, but really what you're trying to do is really express to them what it is that they're getting and why it costs, what it costs. You're not justifying it, but you're explaining it. And once they start to understand it, most people, not all, most people will kind of be like, yeah, okay.
feel a little bit ridiculous like trying to ask for a nickel off, right? And then they kind of are a little bit embarrassed. And so I think that a lot of times when you start to get price objections is because you really just haven't had the right conversation. not even that you haven't built the right value. You probably haven't, but you haven't had the right conversation. And what I've found is that the experience does not match what they feel like it should be, right? So if I feel like something should cost $10 and you're charging me $10 for it, I feel guilty asking for a discount, right? And you can see it. But if I feel emboldened to, it's usually because
Steve Guberman (24:03.837)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ali Mirza (24:31.832)
You're charging me 10 bucks, but the experience was out of $5. Focus on the experience, I think a lot of your problems will start to go away very quickly. And then also just have intentional conversation. Too many people float their deals. Have intentional conversation.
Steve Guberman (24:43.527)
Yeah, so I think on that intentionality of conversations, I get a lot of founders, sales, people in the sales role saying, we got ghosted by this one, we got ghosted by that one. Any tips for how to get un-ghosted or prevent the ghosting in the sales process?
Ali Mirza (25:00.93)
be better. think, so I think.
It's rare that I find that somebody has done all of the right things and had really great conversations and been strategic and created the right experience and then they get ghosted. Still happens, but very rare. But a lot of salespeople get ghosted. The reason is because it was a very non-valuable conversation to the prospect. And then when you're following up with them, you're following up with them by saying, just following up. Hey, did you have an answer? It's like, they don't owe you anything. They got other things to do.
Right? Any spare time they have, they'd rather spend it with their friends, family, know, screw around on Instagram. But like, they're not going to sit there and close the loop for you. And just because you got to update your CRM. So, you know, show up in a way in which one, human nature, open that loop for them, get them curious. Right? So a lot of times when I follow up, it's like, it'll be like, Hey, Steve, you know, just whatever I might say, Hey, Steve, just following up. I was going through my going through my notes and I realized that I had told you X, Y, and Z.
in the proposal and actually had a couple thoughts about this, this and this problem that you were experiencing, wanted to hop back on a call with you and actually walk you through some changes that I want to make, right? Something like that, right? I mean, now it's gonna open the loop in your head. like, wait, what changes were those, right? And again, if I've done the first part right, now you're probably gonna be like, okay, well, like, mean, the previous conversations were pretty valuable. I'm sure he's probably got something important to tell me. So let me hop on. And you keep it in that conversation stage.
Steve Guberman (26:14.109)
Mmm.
Ali Mirza (26:33.58)
and most people will continue to talk to you. But if I just hit you up with, hey Steve, just following up, had you had a chance to take a look at my proposal, had you had a chance to speak to your board, it's like, that's all me focused about me wanting you to answer me. I mean, I'm one of the very few people that is an inbox zero kind of guy, and like, you know, I gotta answer all my text messages, clear all my notifications, and so, plus I have no problem telling people no. But most people are not like that. Most people have thousands of emails and.
and text messages that are unread and all this other type of stuff and so you're just one more person that they're not gonna answer. No skin out their back. So, I don't know, that makes sense.
Steve Guberman (27:09.939)
Yeah. When people are thinking about putting a salesperson in place and they're like the DNA of the person that I want to hire should be X, Y, and Z, I'm often of the school of thought that that person should have account management, maybe sales experience, but they should more than that be really familiar with our industry. think that just being in the service space versus being like in the agency space is very different. What are your thoughts on like bringing somebody in as to become a salesperson?
with what experience should they bring with them?
Ali Mirza (27:43.171)
I don't think they need to bring much. mean, in my opinion, a lot of times experience usually is a nice wrapping for bad behavior, bad habits. And so I don't think they need that. And I think a lot of the stuff, the quote unquote intangibles, right? mean, dude, it's like 18 things. You can't sit down with somebody for an hour and tell them what those 18 things are. Like, it's not that big of a deal. Like, shit ain't that serious.
And so I just think a lot of that is just because we just have not spent enough time on the training programs and the onboarding process. And so it's usually just poor training, poor onboarding, poor expectation setting. That's why we look for people with experience because, I hired somebody that didn't have experience and they didn't know something as simple as this. And I'm like, did you ever tell them? They should have known. I'm like, okay, sure, whatever. Tell yourself whatever you want. And so it's just like...
Just do the work right. Because again, just because somebody has experience from another organization doesn't mean they know exactly how you would position that very simple thing. at that organization, might have positioned it in a different way. So they might know about it, but not to the same level or standard or expectation that you have. And so it's just little things like that. And again, if it's dollar for dollar the same, then it's just like, well, then how different are you?
Steve Guberman (29:02.119)
Right, well that's interesting, I like that. Yeah, I guess I see a lot of people that are like, I got this sales guy who convinced me that he can sell ice to an Eskimo and he sold whatever cars and so now he can sell anything and I don't know, to me that doesn't really work but I understand from a fundamental standpoint, yeah, the principles of sales are the principles of sales.
Ali Mirza (29:22.262)
Yeah. And I mean, again, like, yes, that's not going to work because this person doesn't know how to do that, but that's no different than saying like, Hey, this is a great athlete that played, you know, baseball. And I'm just going to now bring them in and have them play football. And it's like, yeah, no, of course it's not going to work, but like an athlete, an athlete is an athlete. somebody who's got a proven track experience of being able to have good wind and athleticism and agility, AKA in the sales world, like, you know, good personality and personable and ability to ask direct questions. I mean, that's, that counts for something.
Steve Guberman (29:35.529)
All right. Yeah.
Ali Mirza (29:51.919)
but it doesn't count for fundamentally not knowing the rules of your industry, which you should not be complaining about having to train and teach. It's just something that you should do. I don't know, I guess it's like, I don't understand why so many people want to take shortcuts on everything. It's like, just put in the work. I'm telling you, it takes a lot longer to shortcut your way to the end result.
Because it's also like people think like, oh, well, I already made this mistake once. I'm not going to make it again. It's like, oh, well, the implication there is there's only one wrong way, only one way to get it wrong. No, no, no. Like there's a million ways to get something wrong. There's really only two, maybe three ways to get something right. And so it's like, yeah, you found one way to do it incorrectly and human behavior, no, what it is, people just tend to repeat themselves over and over again. Let's just say you're one of the few evolved individuals that does not do that, but now you're just gonna find another way to do it wrong. And then another way to after that, it's like,
You want to really go through all of that? Just do it the right way to begin with.
Steve Guberman (30:52.253)
Yeah, love it. All right, let's jump into a couple of real random, a few random rapid fire questions to wrap things up. Lots of sales info here to chew on. So super valuable, I appreciate it. So the first is what's a daily habit that secretly makes your life run smoother?
Ali Mirza (31:10.986)
Anytime I wake up and workout, like I that's my goal every morning workout. When I miss my workouts, my day is not near nowhere near as good.
Steve Guberman (31:20.627)
Love it, yeah. If you could erase one cliche from the business world, which one is gone forever?
Ali Mirza (31:29.422)
That was a lot. I have pretty much anything to do with servant leadership.
Steve Guberman (31:37.513)
with circle of leadership? yes, love it, okay. Yeah. And then finally, what's one project or idea you still think about because you know that it should have worked?
Ali Mirza (31:39.37)
servant leadership. Not a fan.
Ali Mirza (31:49.6)
Hmm, it's a good question Can't go into all the details about it, but It was a negotiation We just were probably never gonna see eye to eye on with me and another client, but had we been able to see eye to eye We could have done something very very special together and I think I never got
You know, so the grass is always greener on the other side type of thing. No, grass is greener where you water it. So I never got the payout that I thought I deserved and wanted on the, I said, all right, I'm walking. And he never got the level of value he thought he could get on the open market for something else. So kind of like a missed connection for the two of us. So neither of us fared well. I had...
Steve Guberman (32:46.376)
Yeah.
Ali Mirza (32:47.426)
had it worked out, would have been beautiful.
Steve Guberman (32:49.269)
Yeah, Ali Mirza, Rose Garden, consulting out of Atlanta, helping agencies grow through really strong sales process and sales teams. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for all of your time and sales wisdom that you shared on our episode today.
Ali Mirza (33:04.408)
Thank you. Thank you for having me.