Ep 123 – Jenny Plant, Account Management Skills – The Secret to Growing Client Accounts Without “Selling”
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Featuring: Jenny Plant, Account Management Skills
In episode 123, I sit down with Jenny Plant, founder of Account Management Skills, to talk about why strong account management is the secret weapon for agency growth. Drawing on over 25 years of experience on both the agency and client side, Jenny shares how she helps account managers develop the skills, confidence, and mindset to grow accounts without feeling “salesy.” We discuss the challenges of hybrid AM/PM roles, how to spot rising account management stars, and why curiosity and relationship skills often outweigh industry knowledge. Jenny also dives into her “Four P’s” of AI for account managers—Productivity, Personalization, Prescribe, and Predict—showing how technology can boost proactivity and client value. We wrap with insights on setting growth targets, charging for account management, and building a culture that celebrates account wins as much as new business.
Key Bytes
• Account growth starts with training AMs to be proactive, not just reactive service providers
• Hybrid AM/PM roles often fail to drive growth because delivery takes priority over development
• Curiosity and relationship skills can be more valuable than industry expertise
• AI can help AMs be more productive, personalize interactions, prescribe solutions, and predict client needs
• Co-creating growth targets with AMs boosts buy-in and accuracy
• Celebrating account growth fosters a culture where client retention and expansion matter as much as net new businessChapters
00:00 Introduction to Jenny Plant & Account Management Skills
02:20 Why sales training is vital for account managers
04:16 The challenge of hybrid AM/PM roles in driving growth
08:58 Traits of successful account managers
11:32 Hiring AMs from outside the agency world
13:14 Jenny’s Four P’s of AI for account managers
18:19 Proactivity and presenting ideas to clients
20:38 Co-creating account growth targets
22:55 Charging for account management services
24:36 How many accounts can one AM manage effectively?
28:15 Creating a culture that celebrates account growth
Jenny Plant is the founder of Account Management Skills a training company helping agency account managers retain client relationships and grow accounts.
Jenny has over 25 years in agency account management and has also worked client-side in marketing for an international airline and pharmaceutical company.
Her account management training programmes blend proven client growth methodologies with the integration of AI tools, helping agencies stay relevant, efficient, and proactive.
She also hosts the Creative Agency Account Manager Podcast, where she shares insights and interviews to elevate the agency-client relationship management standards across the industry.
Connect with Jenny on their website.
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Steve / Agency Outsight (00:05.641)
Welcome to Agency Bites, a podcast dedicated to helping creative entrepreneurs thrive. I'm Steve Guberman from Agency Outsite, where I coach agency owners to build the agency of their dreams. This week on Agency Bites, I am joined by Jenny Plant, founder of Account Management Skills. With 25 plus years of experience, both agency and client side, Jenny now trains account managers to strengthen client relationships and drive account growth. Through her programs and her podcast, Creative Agency Account Manager,
She's helping agencies stay relevant by blending proven client development strategies with AI tools. And we're going to talk all about that today. Jenny, it's great to see you. Thanks for joining me.
Jenny Plant (00:43.054)
Steve, thank you so much for inviting me. It's very kind. Glad to be here.
Steve / Agency Outsight (00:47.447)
to have you. So account management skills, the name says it all. What's the backstory there? How long have you been running that? What is it that you do to launch this super niche business?
Jenny Plant (00:59.374)
So quick backstory, I started working in agencies in account management in the early nineties. So I'm a real dinosaur. It was all offline. Worked my way up through different agencies and work client side in marketing for an airline and a pharmaceutical company. Eventually found myself to as general manager of publicist life brands. So it was 40 staff, 4 million turnover.
And the reason I started account management skills was for the first time in my whole career, I'd be, I was given sales training when I was general manager and I, was so enlightening, Steve, I got so much from it. thought, why the hell did no one give me sales training when I was an account exec starting in my first London agency in Hatton garden, because the value I could have given to the agencies through sales training, the, sort of
the amount of on the bottom line of the agency I could have given and the value I could have given to my clients with that skill. So that's why I started. left in 2010 and started training account managers and I've been doing it ever since. And I, I love it because I see my younger self and I just, I love coaching and I love sharing all of these. just fundamentally sales really, but for frontline.
client service people who do not want to be salesy.
Steve / Agency Outsight (02:29.013)
Yeah, was the training that you got at publicists kind of like a Sandler type training? Like what was the methodology behind the training?
Jenny Plant (02:35.83)
Yes, yes it was. It was, he was a Sandler trainer. Yeah. That's interesting that you chose that. Yeah. Have you done, have you done Sandler?
Steve / Agency Outsight (02:40.991)
Okay. Yeah. I'm not a black belt, but I've been through a few of the courses and workshops when I had my agency and agreed it was a game changer in, just mindset and how to position sales without feeling salesy or door to door salesy. and so when you think about some of the smaller agencies you worked for before the training, there's like a kick in the butt of, man, if only.
And that's what you're trying to bring to agencies today. But that's what you are bringing to agencies today. Yeah.
Jenny Plant (03:12.94)
Absolutely. Exactly. mean, when, when you think of my last few years at publicist, when I got this training as a bit of a test, I got my sales trainer to come in and train my account management team. Cause I was the general manager and I had account managers coming back from client meetings saying, guess what? I've got another project because I did this and I did that. Or guess what? They've given us a referral. Like it was like pushing on an open door.
I'm not saying that's always the case, but you know, it's like the biggest value you've got in your business and it's the cheaper way to grow your business. So that's why I, and I, and I absolutely love it.
Steve / Agency Outsight (03:57.697)
Yeah. What, so I guess the mindset of somebody who's not trained in sales that's put into an account manager role, what is your perception of what that person's job, forget about the description, what do leaders expect that person to do if not grow an account by X percent without proper training?
Jenny Plant (04:16.45)
Well, look, smaller independent agencies typically have what they call a hybrid account manager. A hybrid account manager, as you know, is a project manager and an account manager. And, you know, and a lot of agencies operate like that. So they have the expectation perhaps that they're going to be able to grow the account and, you know, get, get more business. But the reality is they are so caught up in the, just the delivery of what you've promised.
that it's impossible.
Steve / Agency Outsight (04:47.991)
I know a lot of shops that do run that way. and Nick did a Mythbusters on can an AM and a PM be a hybrid role and is it an effective thing? Their videos are hilarious. I think it's an age old conversation. Two Obs has an episode on it believe as well. I put some content out about it. And I do believe that a person
So the mindset for somebody that is an effective PM is very analytical and the person that is an effective AM is a different kind of a brain. So one, I think one has to be innate and the other can be trained. I think the account management stuff can be trained. The person needs to be project management oriented, detail and specific and process driven and things like that. But I also think that that AM add-on
Is not a true AM. It's more now I'm client facing, which means I'm going to deliver content. I'm going to jockey emails. I'm going to take feedback, but I'm not going to like growing the account is typically not part of that initiative because I'm not trained as to your point. I'm not trained as a sales person. I'm just now liaising with the client as opposed to before. was just project management is typically an internal role. I'm moving things along. I'm. You know, providing content, things like that, so I don't think I've ever seen it.
well executed to add on the growth of the account as an initiative in a hybrid role.
Jenny Plant (06:16.302)
So what you're saying is in the hybrid role, they, they struggle to grow the account. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Because they're not giving up. Yeah. Because it's, it's hard and it's impossible. And also even if they did see an opportunity to grow the account, i.e. they come back from a meeting or they're with a client and the client says, yeah, we're going to do this sales conference. And the account manager thinks, gosh, we could, we could do so much for you. We could do your brand. We could do your.
Steve / Agency Outsight (06:23.467)
Yeah, just don't think that they... Yeah, absolutely.
Jenny Plant (06:45.186)
you know, conference materials, but they won't suggest it. Why? Because they are so slammed and they also perhaps don't have the confidence that their senior leadership team is going to be able to recruit fast enough. There's all this head stuff going on and I become like the auntie. They tell me everything and there's lots of honest conversations that I have with account managers. And I think I try so hard with the agency owners to help them put,
Steve / Agency Outsight (07:00.94)
Mm-hmm.
Jenny Plant (07:14.584)
processes in place, know, simple things, Steve, like updating job descriptions to include sales as a skill to get account managers involved in co-creating targets for growth. You know, how much do we anticipate we could grow this account by getting them involved in a forecasting process and making that forecasting process really robust as in
Let's not just look at what's coming up in the pipeline as an immediate project, but let's look at the now, the next and the future, or the known, the probable and the new. So we're forcing ourselves to think a little bit more long-term about what that growth potential could be. You know, for example, a now opportunity would be, look, we've closed the deal, but we just don't have the purchase order, but we know it's happening and we've scheduled the resources. The next is...
There is actually quite a few complimentary services from that service that we could offer. And we've done a bit of research and we know that the client is not necessarily covering it with another agency. So that could be an opportunity, a next opportunity. But a future opportunity might be, you know, every year they might do an end of year sales conference. We did it last year. It's not for another nine months, but let's start seeding now. So it forces us to think a little bit more long-term. It's those.
kind of accountability structures that I think are useful for the agency leader to be aware of so that not only I'm training the account manager in the skills they need, but that when they go back, they have those ongoing accountability.
Steve / Agency Outsight (08:58.965)
What are some of the things that you see are essential to have that kind of mindset? Aside from the training that you're going to be like, all right, you need to look for the next in the down the road stuff. Like somebody coming into account management kind of knew. Maybe they've been an account exec or they were a designer, but they're not a great designer. And so they're going to move into the account role. What are some of the innate?
personality traits or characteristics that they need to have in order to so leadership can spot this person could be a rising star as an account roll.
Jenny Plant (09:31.662)
That's a really good question, actually. First of all, they need to have that intrinsic motivation to do better. You know, I think it's, just like pushing on an open door when they are innately driven by to take action and to, know, it could be that they want career progression, a promotion or recognition or more money, but there's some kind of internal driver and then it's as easy as anything because you just need some steering.
I think the other thing is their natural ability to connect with someone to make, be empathic, empathetic, and to kind of immediately make the client feel comfortable. You know, there's no barrier that they've really comfortable picking up the phone. They're really comfortable saying, Hey, I can't wait to see the client of, you know, walking the proverbial halls of their company. They don't have a problem with it. So there's that ease.
Steve / Agency Outsight (10:08.619)
Mm.
Jenny Plant (10:28.392)
so those are traits to look for. And, and also just in terms of whether they've actually been proactive. If you're looking at perhaps someone's in the wrong seat, for example, maybe they have grown the account just naturally, cause they're just good at talking to people, being curious, uncovering problems, saying, we can do that. So being very helpful.
Steve / Agency Outsight (10:54.167)
You said for me, one of the key things is what you said at the end is curious. And I think asking those right questions over and over and digging in and finding, oh, you're going to have this conference every year or, you don't have somebody supporting you on signage. Oh, we can help with that kind of curiosity. I think is clutch. What about like bringing somebody in from outside the industry? So I'm in banking my whole life and I'm sick of banking. I want to jump into the agency space. I'll be an account manager.
Like, do you think somebody needs to have the technical understanding of how to deliver a website or what the brand strategy process looks like? can they, can that be trained on as well?
Jenny Plant (11:32.246)
I think that can all be trained and I think that actually is quite a smart move. couple of years ago, I interviewed a recruiter for my podcast and he, at the time you couldn't get an account manager. You couldn't find an account manager for love nor money. And what we were discussing was this very topic was how it is, it is actually a really good shout to take an account manager from another industry and just give them a really thorough training on your.
on your services and the way you do business because they will pick it up like anything, but that innate ability to read the room, to connect, to be likable to your clients, it will pay dividends in the long run.
Steve / Agency Outsight (12:16.725)
Yeah, that outgoing personality, but not like too bubbly, but like you don't want them to be explosive and almost too in the face, but you want them to have a good personality and outgoing and almost an extrovert. yeah, it's interesting. I love the idea of bringing somebody from outside from, think from a PM standpoint, that's probably a detriment because PMs might need to understand the intricacies of a project and have done those, kind of work. But from an account standpoint, I mean, it's a relationship role.
And yeah, so I think that's important. So you're leaning a lot into AI or account managers. And AI is everywhere. It's affecting every industry, every role, every, I mean, you can't open any app or otherwise and not be impacted by it. But what are you seeing how AI is either impacting account managers or how account managers can leverage AI more and more to be more effective?
Jenny Plant (13:14.03)
There's two kinds of questions there. What I'm actually seeing is people aren't as far forward as I thought they might be. That's the truth. think a lot of clients are, my clients are using it for things like speeding up email writing or, you know, helping them write proposals quicker. It's that kind of basic stuff. But in terms of what's possible, I think there's so much we could use. And I'm not saying that's everyone. I know lots of people.
are also very advanced with it and just using it for everything. But I think I've called it the four P's. think there's, four key areas. There's productivity, which is getting everything done in a speedier way. So you've got, if you, if you think about mapping out all of the things you do on a daily basis, from the beginning of the client relationship to the end of the project, you know, there's things like onboarding, development of scopes of work, of timelines of
of meeting transcripts and, you know, follow up notes. There's all that kind of stuff. I think I call it the 70%. These tools, particularly GPTs, are your little robots that can help you do that faster. It won't give you a hundred percent. There's always a human in the loop. You've always, it hallucinates. But I think if you train one of these GPTs with all of your, let's say onboarding,
materials, you know, this is an onboarding pack, then when you have a new client, it will get you 70 % of the way there. So I think there's productivity. That's the first P. The second P is personalization. So we now can use this sentiment data to really understand the client better so that we pick up potential client risk and also churn. you know, if you, if you, if you have a transcript from a meeting, you can
run it through ChachiBT and determine whether there's any sentiment that, know, is there any, so for example, Steve, you know, maybe the client keeps repeating the word process because they're, a little bit unsure of the process. So if you pick that up and there's this word that keeps getting repeated, perhaps there's a solution that you can say, look, they're really obviously worried about process. Let's do a special onboarding pack.
Jenny Plant (15:37.772)
and include a few kind of loom videos to really bring it alive so that they've got this pack that's a lot more conducive to what they're looking for and to help them with their needs.
Steve / Agency Outsight (15:47.617)
So let me jump in before you jump to the next piece. So using the sentiment from the GPT to give you almost points of proactivity where the robot can say, hey, they might be a concern about your process or your delivery time, or do they have the manpower? How do you be proactive as an account manager, which is one of the key elements of being an account manager, to shore up those dams before there's any cracks in it? That's freaking brilliant. Yeah.
Jenny Plant (16:11.746)
Yeah, exactly. there's, there's other things like for personalization, like human, humantic, which is a kind of off the shelf tool that plugs into LinkedIn. And when you bring up someone's profile, if they're quite active, it will tell you exactly what kind of profile they are, how to interact with them, what kind of emails they like, what's their propensity for risk, you know, yeah.
Steve / Agency Outsight (16:34.613)
It'll do a disk analysis almost on their LinkedIn profile. Holy moly.
Jenny Plant (16:39.246)
There's two, there's crystal nose and humantic, but it's awesome because it will help you again, like what's the most important thing for an account manager? Rapport building, knowing how to work with the client, what's going on in their world? How do they like to be communicated with? So there's personalization. The third one is prescribe. This is where we are able to kind of preempt what solutions, what other services they might want.
to solve their challenges. What are their goals? So we can do some research on their business. We can look at their competitors just so much quicker than we ever could and even ask it to behave like, an SEO agency, upload all of their information and ask them for suggestions on how that you can help. mean, it's, it's all within seconds. And then the fourth P is, to predict.
Steve / Agency Outsight (17:23.319)
Mm.
Jenny Plant (17:36.01)
So predict the future. What are the challenges that your client is going to be facing? How much do you know about their business that would lead you to know about what opportunities are coming up? Cause you've got that situational awareness. You can do a research very quickly on trends that are coming and you know, what's to stop you coming up with a little training module to help them with, you know, the cookies are going away. Let's do a little mini training on cookies or how.
AI is impacting SEO, it's adding value. So there's so much in that, but there are the kind of four, some of the key things to think about from an account management perspective.
Steve / Agency Outsight (18:19.127)
Those are brilliant. Some of those literally blew my mind, like the disk analysis kind of plugins. But I've always been a massive proponent for decades of the account manager, the account team, the owner, whoever's leading it needs to be proactively presenting ideas of, we see this trend in your industry. We see this trend in your competitors. This is something that might be a cool idea for Q1 next year. And just having those ideas presented on a regular basis.
you're presenting that all right, these tools can help you do that and that's, you know, maybe fairly obvious, but still pretty exciting.
Jenny Plant (18:56.182)
Well, Gartner did a huge study at the end of 2019 and it was 700 business to business organization, 600 account managers. wasn't marketing industry specific, but it told you a lot. was the, the, the report was why accounts aren't growing. And they concluded that among these account managers, 88 % of account managers believe that what does it take to grow an account?
they think it means if I just go over and above on service, if I've just nicer to them and connect more and take them out for lunch more, then it will naturally grow. So there's this fundamental misconception about what it will take to grow an account. And what Gartner said was you need to grow an account. You need to make a new sale to an existing client, which means that you need to be having client improvement conversations, paint a picture of their future business.
have a critical perspective on what they should be doing differently. So it kind of confirms what you've just said. It's kind of, it's, it's, you know, it's on the one hand obvious, but so not. And with going back to the hybrid account manager, it's even more important to carve out that time so that you can like have what I call an, client impact meeting internally to really think about where are we with the client currently? What opportunities are there for them?
And, and take the time to do that, particularly if you have a client that's dominating your portfolio, that you don't want to, you have to be proactive to to just to stand still.
Steve / Agency Outsight (20:38.241)
Yeah, that behemoth 50-60 % of your revenue is one client. You better dedicate a lot of energy to keeping that and a whole lot of complementary energy to offsetting that and getting net new business, but keeping that one is vital. Do you believe in setting benchmarks for account growth as far as net new business within that single account?
Jenny Plant (20:51.81)
Exactly.
Jenny Plant (20:58.432)
I do, but I mean, I believe in co-creating that target, that growth target with the account manager. Lots of reasons why, if it's a top-down approach, I'm the account manager, I've been given a target with no context. It's demotivating. Secondly, the account manager, they're on the ground with the client. They are there every day. They may know that their client has just got pregnant and is just about to go on that leave.
And if you're an agency owner or leader is making a target when we know our key contact is just about to leave, it's a huge threat. So yes, I believe that a target is important, but co-creating a target is really important. And then breaking that target down into behavioral KPIs. And what I mean by that is let's monitor the actions that are controllable by me. Cause I can't control ultimately that output, that number.
Steve / Agency Outsight (21:36.257)
you
Jenny Plant (21:56.002)
But what I can control is how I show up. you know, the fact that I do have a client development plan that I am meeting quarterly with the client, that I am bringing ideas, that I am asking these questions and it's more trackable and measurable.
Steve / Agency Outsight (22:13.419)
Yeah, love that. You mentioned and again, something I fully agree with, you mentioned a while back about it's so much cheaper to keep an account and grow it than to get new business. And that's just simple math. It takes a lot of time, energy, money, whether it's paid advertising or organic content or networking or whatever to get net new, but cheaper to keep them and grow them investing in an account manager. thinking about different size agencies.
and like the size agency where, all right, we're at the right size where we can start bringing on an account manager. Again, maybe it's a hybrid role. At what point do you see agencies are able to start charging clients for account management?
Jenny Plant (22:55.426)
I, yeah, it's, it's a really interesting one because.
Jenny Plant (23:01.152)
In the majority of my experience, account management is, has always been charged for, but I'm also, I've also worked with agencies that don't charge for it. And I think it's how it's positioned ultimately, because if you, if you're not charging for it and all of a sudden you have to have a conversation with your client about charging for it, they better be bringing me value in the form of ideas and initiatives and you know,
and almost treating it like a re-pitch. So it's an interesting one, yeah, I've always, majority of agencies I work with do charge for it.
Steve / Agency Outsight (23:43.127)
think there's a threshold and I don't want to say it's a million dollars, but it's probably right around a million dollars where any net new business, this is a line item. I don't think that you could successfully go back and be like, hey, we've been working together for a year. We're to start charging you for account management or project management. But prior to that, it's just a cost of doing business and it's an expensive one. And so trying to recoup that investment from like as an agency ops person, it's really challenging. So at some point, you know,
All net new business. Yeah, we align item project management and account management.
Jenny Plant (24:15.66)
Yeah, from new, I think it's much, much, much easier for sure.
Steve / Agency Outsight (24:20.373)
Yeah. What about from your standpoint, the formula, if you can call it that for an account manager can handle this many clients or this much business or this type, you know, top line revenue growth or like, is there a formula that you use?
Jenny Plant (24:36.632)
there's no specific formula because so many different agencies are structured so differently and do different things. But I would say that once you exceed five accounts, gets, you know, it's, it's harder, but again, it depends on the size of the accounts. So, cause if you have five accounts that are just like an SEO maintenance program, you know, that's, that's easy. So I think it's really dependent on, on how big the account is.
and what the expectation is. Because, know, in publicist, for example, we used to have one person on one account. And the other end of the spectrum, I've got one of my clients at the moment, he's got about 30 accounts, you know, so I do one of first exercises I do in my training is a categorization exercise. Most agencies categorize their clients, you know, in some way, shape or form tier one, tier two, tier three. I use the bronze, silver, gold, platinum.
based on a matrix of growth potential of their business and share of wallet and kind of how big they're, how much money they've got to spend with us. So it's an exercise where in order to fill it in, you need to look at whether the client's business is growing. Do they have a strong pipeline of new products coming through? Are they extending their footprint into new markets? Are they in a fast growing industry sector? You know, are they hiring loads of people?
That's an indicator that that business is doing well. And then the other axis is how much money can they spend with us? And it might be a little bit to start with, but if their business is flourishing and growing, you know, there's a different approach to what strategies we can do with that client. And I think the reason that's important is it also determines where the account managers focus their energy and time.
Steve / Agency Outsight (26:30.827)
Yeah, I love that. question I get asked often from clients and just people I speak to on the agency side is, I'm trying to structure a package for a new account person. Is it straight salary? Do you believe in commission on account growth revenue? What's your beliefs on that?
Jenny Plant (26:48.222)
I've, I, this is my personal feeling. I know it's mixed. don't think account managers should be incentivized for account growth. particularly where that growth opportunity has to come from other areas of the business. So for example, if I'm in a client meeting and I identify going back to that sales conference opportunity, wow, there's a lot of, you know, sales conference, we could do loads.
If I came back and I have to formulate a proposal with some visuals, some, know, mockups and things like that, I'm using the team's time. And if they're not getting incentivized, they can build some resentment. I also think when you are incentivizing on growth, it's an administrative task for the leadership team that they don't need. It can get messy in how exactly do we work this out? It's not as cut and dry as for new business, net new business where, you know, you're going to get me a meeting.
or if you get me a conversion with growth, think it gets messy. So it's time consuming. So I think that's my personal view. I've, I have rarely seen it work well.
Steve / Agency Outsight (27:57.303)
We've also not seen it consistently work successfully where there's commission on account growth. But yeah, I was curious what you see and what you see successfully. And so yeah, same vision into the trends. Any other kind of last minute account management stones we didn't overturn?
Jenny Plant (28:15.69)
God, I'm trying to think of something really informed and useful. I, okay. Celebrate account growth. Okay. Create a culture of, of growth in your business. And it can be as simple as recognizing people who bring business in through existing clients. It's something small. We're very good at ringing the bell for winning a new client, getting a new logo, but we're rarely.
And that's where if you set this culture, people can see this is important here. Let's do more of it.
Steve / Agency Outsight (28:50.247)
I love that. think that's really important. Almost as important as NetNewBusiness because you're shoring up these existing clients and yeah, you don't want churn. So I love that. All right. I want to wrap up with a couple of rapid fire questions. So on the trend of putting you on the spot, what's a weird food combination that you secretly love?
Jenny Plant (29:10.562)
dates with peanut butter and dark chocolate. I don't know if it's weird, but it's delicious. we've got this module dates and I've just been putting peanut butter and chocolate. Not weird, but just as a tip for anyone listening, they are delicious.
Steve / Agency Outsight (29:17.665)
Sounds delicious.
Steve / Agency Outsight (29:27.585)
Sounds it. What's one belief that you've changed your mind about in last few years?
Jenny Plant (29:34.564)
my God, my partner's best friend. I hated him. He was always drunk when I met him for years. And he's shown that he is such a kind man. recently for a reason, that's very deep, but he has been exceptionally kind and lovely. And I honestly, I've done a one 80 on him. I'm usually not wrong about people, but there I was really wrong.
Steve / Agency Outsight (29:49.719)
Mm.
Jenny Plant (30:03.052)
And I'm forever grateful to how he's treated my partner through a difficult time.
Steve / Agency Outsight (30:08.353)
That's beautiful. And then finally, if your company had a mascot, what would it be?
Jenny Plant (30:16.862)
my God, that's such a question.
Jenny Plant (30:23.938)
A mascot. don't know. Something to do with sunshine. I don't know. I'm thinking of a mascot that's got sunshine in it. but it's not a thing is that you can't take the sun, but I do like, these are luminous lights I've got in my office. So I actually would love to have a sunshine that was kind of a mascot and somehow reconfigure my brand on it. Because I think, you know, we've got enough gloom in the world and I've been going down various.
Steve / Agency Outsight (30:29.655)
Mm.
Jenny Plant (30:53.368)
conspiracy theory rabbit holes, which is making me feel worse. So I think we need to remind ourselves that the sun, it brings light on dark times.
Steve / Agency Outsight (31:04.203)
Yeah, I love that and I see that in you and this shine that you bring in the color even in your background and you could absolutely personify the sun. I'm thinking of like the Care Bears and there was always like the sun with a giant smile in the corner and so yeah, you can own that.
Jenny Plant (31:18.914)
Yeah, I'd have to put a bit more creativity into the thought of what the mascot would be, but something has got to connect with the sunshine.
Steve / Agency Outsight (31:27.799)
Love it. Jenny, thank you so much for joining me for sharing so much vital information. Folks, check out Jenny's website and podcast and workshops coming up and all the good stuff that you're doing. So thank you very much for your time.
Jenny Plant (31:41.87)
Thank you for having me, Steve. It's been brilliant.