Ep 158 – How Matt Dean Built a Commercial Real Estate Branding Agency by Going All In on One Niche
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Featuring: Matt Dean, Dean&Co.
In episode 158, I sit down with Matt Dean, co-founder of Dean & Co., the branding studio he and his wife Jackie built for the commercial real estate industry. Since launching in November 2021, they've grown to a team of fifteen working across seventeen states, with projects like Gasworks, Silo Park, and Austin's Second Street District behind them.
Matt walks through the SCAD dorm-room origin of their partnership, the two years they spent testing other industries before realizing their entire pipeline was already commercial real estate, and the decision to go all in on one vertical instead of hedging with a few. We get into what it actually means to be a "development partner" instead of a vendor, how Dean & Co. vets clients before signing them, and the mechanics of firing a client two months into the business.
Agency owners will walk away with a clearer framework for niching with conviction, having the candor conversations around scope and pricing before they become resentments, and building a culture where the team can carry the client relationship, not just the founder.
Key Bytes
• Your entire pipeline will tell you what your niche already is, long before you're willing to admit it.
• Chasing every industry that looks fun is a side hustle wearing an agency's clothes. Discipline is choosing one thing and staying choosable for it.
• Being vertically integrated but horizontally differentiated means one industry can still hold a hundred different kinds of work.
• The word "vendor" should make the hair on your arm stand up. Partners get invited to the table before the brief exists.
• Firing a $15,000-a-month client two months into the business was the moment the agency's values became real instead of aspirational.
• A referral isn't a consolation prize when you outgrow a client. It's how you let go without burning the relationship down.
• Track record is the only leverage you need to have the money conversation. If your team overdelivers, raising your rate is just math.
• Network from your first day on campus. You won't know for fifteen years which conversation was the one that mattered.
Chapters
00:35 Welcome to Agency Bytes and introducing Matt Dean
01:19 How Matt and Jackie met at SCAD and became a team
03:58 Launching Dean & Co. in November 2021 and setting a goal at 19
05:20 The two years spent testing other industries before niching down
09:05 Discipline versus chasing the dragon
11:57 The pre-development work clients never see, and building a team for the table
14:57 Why "vendor" is the wrong word and "development partner" is the right one
17:05 Do good work with good people: defining the core values
20:56 How Dean & Co. vets a client, and firing a $15,000-a-month client two months in 26:15 Having the money conversation from a position of track record
28:34 Rapid fire: books, gadgets, and advice to 19-year-old Matt
Matt Dean is the Co-Founder and CEO of Dean&Co. Matt has built one of the most in-demand branding studios in commercial real estate, working on projects like Gasworx, Silo Park, Austin’s 2nd Street District, and Mosaic. From launching an agency in 2021 to working across 17 states with 15 team members, Matt and his wife, Jackie, have remained focused on their vision, values, and ideal client profile to successfully build the agency they always envisioned.
We've built an agency that is led by our values, we have scaled in a way that allows us to keep up with the demand while not going over our skis, and our ultimate mission is to work with great clients and to be able to give our employees a great place to work. There are a lot of topics in here, from saying no to clients/projects that don't fit, to truly understanding bandwidth and when to hire, to looking for key indicators that make great team members and clients of the agency.
Connect with Matt on LinkedIn, Dean&Co on LinkedIn, Instagram, or the web.
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Steve Guberman (00:02.218)
Welcome to Agency Bytes. I'm your host, Steve Guberman from Agency Outsite, where I help agency owners turn their agency into an asset that they can grow, sell, or actually enjoy. what am I scripted?
Steve Guberman (00:16.408)
Yep, take two. Hang on a sec.
Steve Guberman (00:35.444)
All right. Tick two. Welcome to Agency Bytes. I'm your host, Steve Guberman from Agency Outsite, where I help agency owners turn their agency into an asset they can grow, sell, or actually enjoy. This week on Agency Bytes, I am joined by my friend, former client, and co-founder of Dean Co., Matt Dean, the one and only. since launching in 2021, Matt and his wife Jackie have built one of the most in-demand branding studios in commercial real estate work.
They've got work on projects like Gasworks, Silo Park, and Austin's Second Street District District. They now span seventeen states with a team of fifteen. They've stayed laser focused on the vision, values, and ideal that got them here. And I am pumped to have you, my friend.
Matt Dean (01:17.195)
Thank you very much for having me.
Steve Guberman (01:19.48)
Yeah, welcome to the show. I was trying to rattle my brain like how the heck we ever first connected, and the brain doesn't go that far back, so I'm not too sure about that, but I know that it's been an honor to see what you and Jackie have done with Dean and Co. over the past few years. give kind of your backstory, you know, the the college sweetheart jam and and launch launching the agency and all that.
Matt Dean (01:42.594)
Sure. Yeah, we'll we'll take it back there. So both Jackie and I went to the Savannah College of Art and Design and that's where we met. I played a little cross there. She played softball. We both studied graphic design and had a lot of mutual friends and ended up meeting in typical sap story, as soon as I saw her, kinda knew she was the one.
and then we immediately, you know, started dating and eventually, you know, graduated. Jackie went into marketing, advertising, and event promotion, working for big traditional advertising agencies. I left and ended up going to boutique branding agencies where I started to focus a lot on strategy. And that's where I got the bug for seeing creative services are not just making really cool things, they actually impact businesses. And you can help entrepreneurs and business owners grow through the creative process.
And so that really sparked my interest. I then was looking for a new opportunity and saw the world of commercial real estate, which, you know, you go to SCAD art school, no one talks about commercial real estate. but while I was there, I took too many architecture electives. So it was kind of this thing that I didn't know I loved, but it kind of merged with what I really did love. And so I saw a position in commercial real estate and looked around at the industry. There's a lot of
money and there's a lot of really bad design branding marketing out there. And so I took a leap of faith, jumped in and basically started learning everything I possibly could. in the meantime, in the background, Jackie and I, you know, we had freelanced on projects together with clients. We were always working together. I was interning at all the agencies she was at. So we had always been kind of a team. And so my goal was always to own my own agency by 30.
I set that goal when I was 19 at SCAT actually. and so commercial real estate just kind of happened and I dove in, learned everything possible about it, fell in love with the built environment, what it could do for people and for communities and for cities. And so fast forward to 2021. you know, Jackie was working for traditional ad agency CEOs. I'm not gonna go into that, but I think everyone can pick up what I'm throwing down there.
Matt Dean (03:58.416)
it was just kind of in a bad spot on that side. And I was ready to start my own agency. And so we basically said, Hey, you've got the advertising and marketing background, I've got the brand and commercial real estate. Let's join forces, open up shop, and see if we can do this thing. And so that was November of 2021. we've been working together ever since full time, growing the agency. As you said, we're now at fifteen, sixteen people, working across 17, hopefully a couple of new states this year, and it's gone extremely well.
Steve Guberman (04:28.128)
Amazing. It's crazy. So A, when you're nineteen and you think, All right, I'm gonna do something by thirty, that seems like eons away and thirty seems so freaking old. How old are you now?
Matt Dean (04:37.441)
thirty four.
Steve Guberman (04:38.998)
Yeah. So like, yeah, you're far into it. But the other thing that's crazy to me is most people are like, All right, I'm gonna start this thing 'cause nobody else does it right. Everybody else sucks. I've got a shitty boss, shitty creative director, whatever. They go out and they they're like, All I'm gonna figure this out. And and they're usually I'm a generalist, I'll do anything for anybody to keep the lights on. And then over time they like hone it down and niche it in into these verticals or these services or just a web flow shop or like whatever.
You from the door were like, this is a thing I'm passionate about. I see this is where the money is. Like, talk more about like starting from the niche 'cause there's a lot of fear behind that. You're going all in, all eggs in a singular, you know, basket, so to speak. Like how'd you how'd you walk through that?
Matt Dean (05:20.917)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I I think, you know, going back to to when I was 19 and I said that. And it's funny, the first person I ever said that to was Jackie. And she vividly remembers that because she's probably was like, What the hell is this young kid I'm dating talking about? but for me, my whole thesis around that was I realized, you know, I was always a on sports teams, captain of teams, and just realized I was a decent designer. I'm I'm pretty okay. I can hold my own, but
Steve Guberman (05:36.227)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Dean (05:49.248)
You know, when you go to SCAT and you see some of these other guys and girls out there doing things, you're just like, wow, they're there's way better talent. What I'm really good at is people and bringing people together and creating great outcomes. And so I saw that really early on and was like, that's what I want to do. I will be honest, when we first started Dinaco for the first two years, we were probably 75% commercial real estate, 25%, let's leave the door open and see what happens. And so
I think you get tricked when you're a little bit younger and you're like, hey, we could do creative for whatever industry. You know, we tried CPG and realized that's unbelievably difficult. Not a lot of founders have that much money. It's all coming from backing, anyways. Really tough to break into. we tried to get into the cannabis industry. We actually know the rapper exhibit, and so we tried to do some work with them. we did work for the band Umfries McGee for a little bit of time. And so like we tried our hand at those things.
but when we started the agency, Jackie and I and our business plan put down after the end of that two years, we need to really see where's the bulk of our business coming from, what decision do we need to make. So we had some fun early on. And then when I looked at my pipeline of any clients that I'm trying to talk to, every single one of them under the list of industry type was commercial real estate.
And so once we had that come to Jesus like realization moment, I was like, look, our entire pipeline is commercial real estate. That's my entire network. I'm the one doing business development. We need to go full force at this and be the best at it possible. And so the last two years, we've just fully niched down into this industry and you know, we call it the built environment or commercial real estate. And it's the only thing that we do and want to do.
And that's kinda how we've built things and and where it's transpired to.
Steve Guberman (07:41.027)
Yeah. I love that man. it it's rare that you get that early on, as early on as you guys are five years in. It's also rare that you get people that are all in on a singular vertical because again, there's a safety net. Like even Ballari Ans talks about like choose three and like have them somewhat adjacent. He talks about like a three legged stool. I've all often said I believe in a four legged stool, 'cause if one of those verticals falls out, you've got still three, you know, legs, your your stool is still kind of stable.
But like you're all in on it and you've not looked back and what you so you become experts in the industry, you become known in the industry, you go to the events, you're on the boards, you're on you're in the associations, urban urban land industry, and like all these things where people get to know you as a resource, as somebody who here's what I do to move the industry forward. And so you're not watered down by like, yeah, we're also in CPG or like you know, music or, you know, entertainment or in these other industries.
and again, man, it's just it's rare. And I acknowledge and commend your courage to like be all in on that because you know, that twenty-five percent that you left the door open, like that's that's kind of like doing a side hustle with a full-time job, right? When you're doing a side hustle with a full-time job, it's always gonna be a side hustle. Until you go all in and you quit the job and you're like, I'm all in on this thing, you know, here here we are, Dean and Co. You know, so I love it.
Matt Dean (08:52.96)
Totally.
Matt Dean (09:05.449)
Yeah, and I think, you know, as as a small agency and young entrepreneur, I think we social media and you can look around, everyone's killing it, right? And doing all the fun stuff. And I I think the biggest thing that people need to always realize is you have to be extremely disciplined with yourself and not chase the dragon. And so
We were kind of chasing the dragon early on and then realized, you know, that's not how you grow a business. That's not the discipline that we need. And I think that's where we kind of left the door open for some fun, especially, you know, Jackie coming out of some of her situations. It was like, we we need a little breather. but now we're focusing on building a business. We've got people to pay, we've got payroll, and that takes discipline to to really understand what that truly means. And what commercial real estate, I don't, you know, a lot of people I don't
know if they think about it and geek out about it the way that I do, nor nor do I think they need to, but we always say that we're vertically integrated, but we're horizontally differentiated. And what I mean by that is commercial real estate is one industry, but we get to play ball in bars, restaurants, food halls, markets, multifamily, we get to do big mixed-use developments, hopefully a hotel one day. We get master plan communities. So you
You are in one industry, but you get to play across the playing field on so many different things. And as long as for us, one of the biggest things we've always said, and this is why I like the niche aspect, and all my friends and colleagues are developers. I love learning from developers. I think there's some of the most risky people out there that are absolutely just going for it. which I can talk about that a little bit later, but for for
Me getting so far into this and for us niching down into it, I think, you know, it goes back to what you said as well around the, you know, you have empathy for your clients and you get to learn what they're dealing with internally. And I think a lot of those things kind of transpired into us just really loving this type of space and what we're doing. And then ultimately we get to go to these places and see people being there. And I don't think there's any greater feeling than watching something get
Matt Dean (11:18.699)
built from the ground up and then watching people inhabit it and smile and you know high five and hug when their friends show up is just really a beautiful thing.
Steve Guberman (11:27.83)
I used to love you know, we'd put up billboards and we'd like pull over on the side of the road and like take pictures in front of the billboards or if we did package design, we'd see the package in the store and be like, my god, we did that. But branding like a 3D environment, you know, in in like an institution or you know, a gathering space or community. I mean, that's gotta be really gratifying to see that like come to life, see logos get hung up on buildings, things like that. That's gotta be really exciting for you and your team.
Matt Dean (11:57.834)
Yeah, and and what a lot of people don't see, I I do think, and I'll I'll be vulnerable here that we need to do a better job of expressing this, but what a lot of people don't see either is before a development even happens, we call it pre-development. And there's a lot of decision making that takes place around the size of spaces, the type of spaces. How are we going to lay this out for the actual flow of the user experience when somebody's on site and experiencing this thing?
That's a lot of the work that we bring to the table that isn't the ultimate brand that you see on a website or a case study. So that's kind of the work that really gets me going is getting in a room with architects and landscape architects and urban planners and whoever it might be. And you're literally a part of the team thinking about it through the creative lens of the end user, but you're also adding value to the process of the actual development. And I think.
It takes a lot of the background that I have where, you know, I worked within a retail brokerage, I've been in those rooms, I've I've I'm at the developer table on a lot of developments. and so it it is kind of a unique skill. But when you get to be in that part of it, I always say like the branding's gonna happen, you know, the logo's gonna develop, the team's gonna bring it to life, but you really have to define what that's gonna be, feel like, etc. And I think that's probably the most exciting thing for me in the entire process is like, what is this thing really gonna be?
Steve Guberman (13:24.12)
Do you have people on your team that are joining you at those tables or are you still kind of the the lone wolf out hunting and networking and things like that?
Matt Dean (13:32.108)
Great question. Yeah. So we now are at a point where we've grown the team. I've done a lot of education internally. so Zayn Cassidy is our creative director. He's at that table with us. Jackie's at the table. Adeline Eden is newer on our team as a project manager and client success. So that's starting to evolve and we're starting to get to a place where we can kind of spread the team out a little bit. but
us being boutique and I think a lot of clients wanting me in the room, I'm I'm still very much involved on the strategy portion of it. But we, like I said, over the last five years, you know, we've put a ton of work into educating the team on this very unique space. And we're starting to see the fruits of that labor now.
Steve Guberman (14:16.834)
You have to. I mean, if you're experts in this industry, your team's gotta know it inside and out. They don't need to know the size rivets that are holding the girders together, you know, inside the, you know, whatever, the facade of the building. But they need to understand like what what is this space supposed to make people feel? How how are the materials gonna impact how people feel on a cloudy day versus you know, like all that shit, they've gotta know because you guys are the experts. So that's the value that you guys bring to the table and that's how you go upstream and say
This is why we charge whatever a million bucks for this thing, because we are deeply ingrained as experts. So yeah, you've got to have that deep institutional knowledge within your team.
Matt Dean (14:57.011)
Yeah, and and and one of the points that I was trying to make a little bit earlier that that you're bringing up now is I think a lot of times marketing and branding teams, especially in the industry that we work in, you know, the traditional guard just sees you as a vendor and you get called a vendor and my hair is standing up on my arm saying vendor. I I just really dislike it because it it just feels like you're a tool.
That just is doing something that like has to check off a box. I really just don't like it. And so we have built a process where we really do call ourselves a development partner that's no different than an architect or or anybody that's gonna be at the table in that capacity. And so we have been educating the market on that thinking. We have found our kind of ideal client profile that understands the way we think.
And we've also built processes where we act as a facilitator to bring all those teams together at the table. And ultimately, that hasn't happened in the commercial real estate side of things. It happens in master plan communities. They do that a lot, but it hasn't happened as much in commercial real estate. So for me, the the biggest thing for Dean and Co. and how we set up our thesis is are we adding value? Yes or no? And are we being a partner to you? Yes or no.
And if both of those things are yes, it's amazing. And if one of them are no, we really need to evaluate the relationship.
Steve Guberman (16:22.572)
Mm-hmm. I think it's something that most agencies like idealize or strive for. Like, we don't want to just be a vendor. We want to be a partner. And it's like it's almost cliche. Y'all are one of the agencies that I see actually doing it. There, you know, there are a lot that do it. There are a lot that think they do it and don't do it. And then there are a lot that it's not even on the radar on how to do it. but you yeah, I'll call you onto the Mac because you talk about like your ultimate mission is to work with great clients and be able to give your employees a great place to work. And all that is subjective. But I know it's
tied to like some serious core values that you and Jackie established at the onset. So kind of talk what like what does great mean to you guys? How do you do like value driven hiring and and vetting of clients and things like that?
Matt Dean (17:05.257)
Yeah, I I love this topic. so yeah, our our kind of biggest tagline is do good work with good people, and that's both internal and external. And again, kind of going back to I I watch Jackie at the big ad agencies and I just couldn't believe that people get treated the way that they do. you know, one of my friends is the the global creative director for David and Goliath and
I used to freelance on projects with him and we'd be working at 2 a.m. And he's like, I'm sleeping on the couch behind me and I've got work at six AM. And I I just couldn't believe it. I'm like, there has to be a better way. And I understand that some agencies that happens, but what we wanted to do was create a place where that didn't happen. And so for us, we've structured our agency with one of our biggest values is transparency and candor. And so
I'll give an example of this. Two weeks ago, we had a client that two weeks in a row basically had really big 5 p.m. kind of deadlines. I need this, you know, pushing, et cetera, et cetera. And we had over delivered by our timelines and and all of these things. And so the team brought it up. And then following Monday, when we had a call with the client, I was on the call and basically said, Hey, look, this isn't gonna work for a long period of time.
We've done it the last two weeks, but it's just not sustainable to keep working like this. And there is a better way. So, what can we do to implement some processes to make sure that you know you're getting the information from us, we're getting the information from you, we have coordination, yada, yada, yada, and it's been fixed ever since. And so for us, it's really looking at clients that value what we do.
And don't think of it as something that just has to happen for their projects. There's a very big difference. And in commercial real estate, there's a lot of people that don't get what we do, and there's a lot of people that do, and it's it's getting better. so for us, it's really just trying to look for our ideal client of are you doing a development that is interesting? Is it just by the pro forma, meaning there's no budget to do anything else? It is what it is.
Steve Guberman (18:53.486)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Dean (19:10.805)
and trying to understand do they value the work that we do and what we bring to the table? And so that's sort of our high-level criteria. And then internally, I think the biggest thing that we've really found is just everybody being a leader and everybody being a team player. for us, you know, I I've seen a lot of CEOs that kind of micromanage everybody from the top down. And for me, I have that team mentality where I'm like, look, we hired you for a reason. You're a great person, you're extremely smart. I have to let you
Come into your own as well. And so we get a l give a lot of responsibility really early on to our team. But I think that we've seen progression across the board in every single role of our team. Like the growth that we've seen is just incredible because people aren't afraid to make decisions or try new things or say something in a meeting that they're really scared about. And so I think for us,
you know, externally and internally, those are the types of things that we really look for. And if you hit it on the head, you you really can create a successful work life balance. you can have really great clients and do really great work all at the same time.
Steve Guberman (20:19.906)
Dude, I love that. And again, so many people strive for it. Very few people achieve it. It's not it's not a summit like a a place where you arrive. It's an ongoing thing where you're constantly needing to rebalance the scales and whether it's with the right clients, the right team members of work life balance. Talk about like when you are getting to know, like courting a potential client, what are some of those flags or like identifiers that you use to see? Do they value what we do? Are they gonna let us have a seat at the table?
you know, d are they good people doing good work? Like all these things. How do you you know you know, evaluate
Matt Dean (20:56.469)
There's a super clear way for us to evaluate those things. And the first one is there and look, this is an industry of business and making money. So I'm not gonna sugarcoat it and say that that doesn't take place. So for us, one of my really good friends who's a developer investor, I know for a fact and he knows for a fact that we're never gonna do a project together. And that's okay because all he cares about is buying a property.
adding value to it and selling it in five years for as much as possible. So that immediately right there is a good friend that I talk to every single month, but we know that we're never going to work together because he does not value what we do and it's not needed in his space. And so that's totally fine. I think that's an example of some of the developers and investors that are out there in this space, which is completely acceptable. Everybody's got a business and needs to make money. So I think that's an example of how we can immediately qualify somebody is
What are your goals for the investment? How long do you plan on holding that investment? Who are your partners and what are their initiatives with the investment? so kind of getting some more information on that and then ultimately figuring out, you know, do they see us as that vendor or partner? So I think that's a lot of the conversation too is are we gonna be able to meet with the decision makers and stakeholders? Or do we have to meet with your project manager or somebody, which is fine, but we need to be at the decision making table.
So I think those are some initial kind of like criteria for us around how we can immediately see who they are, what they're doing and what their goals are. And then we can say if that's the right client for us or not. Luckily we're still small enough where we can make those decisions.
Steve Guberman (22:41.582)
Have you fired clients yet?
Matt Dean (22:43.029)
Yeah. Jackie and I, two months into Dean Co. had an opportunity for a fifteen thousand dollar a month retainer. And the CEO on the other side, I just got the Hebie jeebies from, had a foundation that was this personal foundation type of thing. And we immediately were just like, This is not gonna work. So
Steve Guberman (22:45.56)
For
Steve Guberman (23:05.294)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Dean (23:08.085)
Two months in, we immediately started making those decisions where that could have been life changing two months in. I mean, fifteen grand a month, that's an entirely different agency right off the bat. So yeah, I mean, for us, we've let clients go. we've said no to clients, and we'll continue to do that into the foreseeable future. Because again, you know, it it's just gotta be right. I think
Life's too short and we live in too chaotic of a world to work with people that drive us nuts and and vice versa. I mean, if someone thinks that about us, that's totally fine too. So I just think that we live in a world where everyone should try to enjoy what they're doing as much as possible.
Steve Guberman (23:46.687)
That man, a thousand percent yes. I I'm fully on with you, man. It's okay to fire clients. I think it's imperative. Like fire a client once a year. Like find the your the the oddball that doesn't fit into the niche, find the one that's not paying you enough. You've gone upstream. Every year you should be going upstream. And so who's who's the little fish? Get rid of them, pass them off. I think it's a muscle that people need to continue to exercise and identify mismatch of values, and just kind of sharp continue to sharpen the stones.
Matt Dean (24:15.989)
Yeah, and I I I think one of the the hardest conversations that a agency owners have, and you know, there's there's a lot of designers that are like, you know, I'm starting my own studio, and I'm like, what does that actually mean when it's just you doing the design work or maybe farming it out? So I I d I do think there the the most difficult conversation is business and dollars and contract. And and those things can muddle the the creativity of a project or whatever you're working on. But for us
Steve Guberman (24:33.326)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Dean (24:46.005)
You know, we have some smaller clients that we ultimately had to say as we've grown, like, I I don't think we're the right fit anymore, but here are four referrals for you that can do exactly what we do. They will take care of you. And so I've always done that to make sure it's not just to see you later, it's see you later, but here's your path forward with a team that can support your efforts. and then the other thing that we've done is just have really
Candid conversations with long-term clients that started really small with us from day one and said, Hey, look, I don't think you're tapping into the full value of our agency. We are more expensive now. Here's our minimum monthly retainer, but here's what we're gonna do for your business. Give us six months to a year. Let's see how the relationship goes. And if you're happy and satisfied, then we'll continue on and it's it's all good. But if you're not, you're open to leave and I'll give you those referrals.
And so far, we've done that to to probably five to 10 clients that are still with us today. And we've done exceptional things for them. So it's a tough conversation to go back to a client that's not been paying a lot and say, hey, you know, we're 50 bucks more an hour than we were before. And we also need 10 more hours a month to be able to fulfill. not easy, but when you know that your team can back it up and you do back it up, I I think that's where you start to see.
A lot of those tough conversations really coming to life and you're like, yeah, I've I've built something that's really adding value to someone's business.
Steve Guberman (26:15.862)
When you're able to show the track record, it speaks for what you're gonna do in the future. And so you've got the ammunition to be able to say, Hey, we've been doing this for you. This is a legacy service, a legacy rate, moving forward, it's gonna be this. And it takes courage to have those conversations. My friend Elise Bennin, she's also an agency coach for solopreneurs, and she always calls like the money conversation and like frames it as this big monumental things and 'cause in our mind it is, but you talk about candor as one of your like core values.
And if you speak frankly about this is what it's gonna cost, this is what we're gonna deliver, this is the results you can expect to get, here's here's how we lead the relationship, like account management style, everybody wins because they know from the door that's not a good fit. We can't, you know, we we can't afford that investment or you know, we wanna be in charge or whatever the thing is. And if they say no or they hesitate, you can be like, All right, cool, you're not the one. And if you're not the one, we're gonna leave the door open for the right one to come in, you know.
Matt Dean (27:11.551)
Yeah, absolutely. And I it it it truly I I hope this doesn't sound so cliche, but it it really is true where my conversations that I have to have that are the tough ones because I'm the CEO working directly with clients and I'm running accounts right now and things like that. That conversation becomes so much easier when I know that my team is going to overdeliver every single time. And so that's something that I talk to our team about all the time is like we
Don't miss, at least we shouldn't miss. Sometimes things happen and and it is what it is. But the goal is don't miss, over you know, deliver on everything. And if we do that and we hold up our end of the bargain, then we can go to sleep at night knowing that. And it also makes tougher conversations easier because you know, we've we've had those tough money conversations and for us
I think the latest we ever go on payments with clients is 60 days, which I think is probably unheard of with a lot of agencies working with a lot of clients. But most of our clients pay us within 30 days, if not the day of they get something. And again, that becomes a lot easier to request payment when it's like, We delivered that, you know, forty five days ago. We were also five days ahead of schedule or whatever it is. It really starts to make those conversations a lot easier when you're holding up your end of the bargain.
Steve Guberman (28:12.579)
Mm-hmm.
Steve Guberman (28:34.732)
Love it. Yeah. Listen, I love what you guys are building. big huge fan of Dean and Co. the culture you've established, the priority on work life balance, getting out in the mountains. Like you guys moved to the mountains to spend time there with your family and you know, the kids and just friggin' you you guys are rocking it and super proud of guys. I wanna wrap up with a couple of random rapid fire questions, unless you've got like something that you want to tie a bow around it with. All right.
Matt Dean (29:01.586)
No, no, I l let's jump into it.
Steve Guberman (29:04.918)
All right. what is something that you can't get enough of these days you're binging? A book, a show, a podcast, an activity?
Matt Dean (29:14.613)
I set out to read 12 books this year. I've now I'm on my 11th book, so reading has been massive for me this year. And the book that I've read, which I'm gonna read again, is Phil Knight's book, Shoe Dog. I I can't get enough of that, and I think about it almost every day for some odd reason.
Steve Guberman (29:35.49)
Love it. Are you all in on business books, fiction, spiritual, nonfiction? Like what's the genre?
Matt Dean (29:41.661)
Eighty percent business, twenty percent other books about personal life. So Phil Knight's book and then right now, the lead singer of the metal band Lamb of God wrote another book and I'm reading his right now.
Steve Guberman (29:53.839)
Yep. Sweet. Dave Grohl's book is pretty awesome. I listened to that last year. his voice is just buttered to me, so I had to listen to it. what is a gadget that you have recently integrated into your life, not AI, that you look back and you're like, How the hell did I live without this thing?
Matt Dean (30:13.319)
my gosh. I'm probably the least gadgety person out there. Yeah, I've got nothing for you on that one, I don't think. I I I think the the only one that I can probably say is our flat top grill that we bought when we redid our backyard and we cook probably five nights out of seven on that thing.
Steve Guberman (30:24.054)
Yeah,
Steve Guberman (30:35.33)
Like a black stone kind of thing. Is that what they call it? Yeah. Yeah.
Matt Dean (30:36.915)
Yeah, Blackstone, but a cheaper version. It's just a a hot it's a hot piece of metal.
Steve Guberman (30:42.574)
Dig it. All right. And then finally, and I know you do a lot of work in the in the give back space with SCAD and students and and upcoming students. So thirty-four year old Matt telling something to nineteen year old Matt, what did you what would have been invaluable to have heard?
Matt Dean (30:59.517)
Meet even more people from different disciplines and majors while being at SCAD. every single student that I mentor or I have conversations with, which by the way, if anyone listens to this, I'm an open book. I will share my time with anybody, please reach out. one of the biggest things that I tell every single student at SCAD is do not just go to your major building and call it an end of the day.
Go to every single other major building, talk to as many people as possible. You don't know where people are gonna end up in this world and in this life. And I guarantee you you'll make connections ten, fifteen years down the line of somebody doing something. And that's proven true in my life. It continues to do so. so I think for me is like network from your first day as a freshman, start networking.
Steve Guberman (31:52.379)
my friend, I'm super grateful for you. Thank you very much. Appreciate your time. I cannot wait to get on a mountain with you very, very soon.
Matt Dean (31:58.913)
Please come out this winter. Thank you very much for having me.
Steve Guberman (32:02.297)
You got it, brother.