Ep 161 – Lynn Juang, Frameworks Consulting – Agency Growth Without the Friction
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Featuring: Lynn Juang, Frameworks Consulting
In episode 161, I sit down with Lynn Juang, founder of Frameworks and a strategic partner to founder-led creative agencies working through organizational change.
Lynn walks me through her path from client services in fashion advertising to COO of a multidisciplinary design firm, including the two years she spent guiding that company through the pandemic. We get into why she moved away from the word "fractional" toward what she calls a pop-up business partner model, and she draws a sharp line between a business that looks successful on paper and a company that's actually built to last. We also dig into what happens when founders lose touch with the employee experience and stop being transparent about the realities of running the business.
If you're feeling like your agency has taken on a life of its own, this conversation is a good reminder to slow down, get honest about your foundation, and bring your team along for the ride.
Key Bytes
• A successful business and a healthy company are not the same thing. One can look great from the outside while it's held together with tape on the inside.
• Fractional support can end up feeling like just another commitment. Sometimes what a founder actually needs is someone who shows up for the right time, not a long time.
• Strategic planning isn't only about the deck you end up with. The clarity that comes from the process is often the real value.
• When founders lose touch with what it felt like to be an employee, empathy is usually the first casualty.
• Teams fill in the blanks when they don't have context. Staying quiet about the business doesn't protect people, it just breeds assumptions.
• Business fluency, even without exact numbers, makes people better at their jobs. Understanding the constraints you're working within changes the recommendations you make.
• Makers, managers, mentors, leaders, and visionaries are five different skill sets. Conflating them sets everyone up for misplaced expectations.
Chapters
00:00 Welcome and introducing Lynn Juang
00:44 Lynn's path from client services to COO
06:01 How a multidisciplinary design firm shaped her view of agency work
08:08 Why she moved on from the word fractional
09:04 Redefining the role as a pop-up business partner
14:24 The difference between a successful business and a healthy company
19:35 Why the process matters as much as the plan
23:10 What happens when founders lose touch with being an employee
25:31 Building business fluency across the team
28:44 Rapid fire questions and closing thoughts
Lynn Juang is a strategic partner and advisor to founder-led creative agencies and design studios navigating the messy middle of organizational change. A former COO with 20+ years of experience honed from the inside out — from client services to agency leadership — she launched Frameworks to be the sounding board and pop-up business partner that creative leaders rarely have but always need. She helps them cut through the chaos and make better decisions, so they can lead and build healthier, happier creative companies.
Contact Lynn on their website, on LinkedIn, Instagram, and subscribe to the Explore the Midline newsletter.
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Steve Guberman (00:02.039)
Welcome to AgencyBytes. I'm your host, Steve Guberman from Agency Outsite, where I help agency owners build the business of their dreams. On this episode of AgencyBytes, my guest is Lin Zhuang, founder of Frameworks and a strategic partner to founder-led creative agencies navigating organizational change. With 20 years, 20 plus years of experience as a former COO, built from the ground up in client services and agency leadership, Lin launched Frameworks to build the sounding board and pop-up businesses partner that
Creative leaders rarely have, but always need. She helps them cut through the chaos and make better decisions so they can help build happier, healthier companies. Lynn, thanks for joining me.
Lynn Juang (00:41.772)
Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Steve Guberman (00:44.971)
I'm excited to have you. We're taking another kind of twist of an angle on like what makes for a better agency and let's start. And my kind of opener is give your background. Like what was your journey towards getting to where you are now to running your own consultancy?
Lynn Juang (01:00.782)
Sure. So I started in fashion advertising in the early aughts on the client services side. I feel like it was the best kind of crash course in agency world and design because in client services, as you know, you're sitting in the middle of everything. So I like to joke that I got a,
Steve Guberman (01:19.245)
Mm-hmm.
Lynn Juang (01:22.542)
I was either being yelled at by the clients or yelled at by the creatives. so very early on you learn to read the room, read between the lines, translate things from one team to another. So that's where I started. And then I moved over to the design side and I managed the branding and graphic design team inside a hospitality design firm.
This is mid-aughts. was one of the truly multidisciplinary studios at the time. So interior design, furniture, graphic design, branding, really sort of like 360 before 360 was a term. Or the company also owned its own bars and restaurants as well. So it was this really kind of unique hybrid business model. And back then, was a small shop.
Steve Guberman (01:55.587)
Mm.
Steve Guberman (02:10.508)
Interesting.
Lynn Juang (02:17.81)
I, as the non-designer, non-creative by trade, I was tasked with, know, blazing with the clients and eventually doing more of the kind of like biz ops with the partners on, you know, writing proposals and doing some of the marketing and some of the kind of like general kind of business foundations. And yeah, so from there, I'll fast forward a couple of detours and life chapters.
I came back to that company and by the time that I was gone, they had spun off a creative agency called Brand Bureau and that arm of it really became the multidisciplinary arm of the company, which had grown significantly in the time since. so Brand Bureau was truly, you know, was brand strategy, visual design, interior design. And, you know, started, I went back as head of strategy.
Steve Guberman (02:56.812)
You
Lynn Juang (03:10.862)
the managing director and then COO. And so I really got a good progression of being kind of in the work, on the work, shipping the work, and then kind of quickly and gradually managing sort of not just like the teams and the projects, but also kind of the business as a whole. And actually the goal was to actually leave in 2020. I had this short term plan of moving on in 2020, but obviously the...
The pandemic had other plans for all of us. But in retrospect, I'm so glad I stayed. I ended up staying another year and a half, two years, because I feel like I got my PhD in crisis management, communications, leadership. And I think that was a really sort seminal experience in what it's like to run a creative business and make really difficult choices and have to wrestle with, you know,
Steve Guberman (03:52.952)
Mm-hmm.
Lynn Juang (04:08.961)
teams and people and emotions and within the context of a really, really challenging landscape. So I sort of stayed on as long as I could, hopefully left the company in a better place than I found it, took some time off and truly just did nothing for about six months. And then that kind of gradually rolled into some freelance work. And then I was like, maybe I'll try on the fractional COO.
thing for a while. was kind of when Fractional was becoming more and more of an understood kind of way of working. And I was Fractional COO with a really well-known branding studio for a couple of years. it was a great experience. It's a team and a company that I really believe in. But after a while, I was like, you know, this is a little bit too close to how I was working before.
Steve Guberman (04:38.563)
you
Lynn Juang (05:04.873)
I was like, you know, I really, I don't want to be so maybe so embedded in someone's business per se. You know, I, I don't really want to run your business. I want to help you run your business. And so I've taken the last year to sort of slowly evolve, and shift to really more of a, what I'm calling kind of like a pop-up business partner. and, really stay at the consultant level to really help, you know, kind of jump in when people need help getting from point A to B in these more sort of contained.
Steve Guberman (05:11.555)
Hmm.
Lynn Juang (05:34.698)
engagements, I think, especially for smaller, you know, smaller creative studios. It's they they're struggling with being nimble. And I think, you know, I equally want to kind of be nimble with with what I'm doing and who I work with and to be able to sort of like, just be really considered with where I can be the most helpful. And I like to say I'm like here for you for the right time, not a long time, you know, kind of exactly what you do and nothing you don't. Yeah.
Steve Guberman (06:01.315)
Love that. three, three things that jumped out at me. One is that, at that first gig before it turned into, what's it Brand builders? Brand Bureau, Confusing names of, anyway, how they threw everything at you that was not design, right? So you are not a designer. You're like, I'm coming in and they're like, well you can do this and you can do this and you can do this. And I don't think that's too...
Lynn Juang (06:12.419)
Brand Bureau.
Steve Guberman (06:28.969)
uncommon where it's like, you're the ops person. You own everything. That's not actually delivery, like the art of making quite in some cases you own the delivery also. so that was interesting to me. And the second is that I know a lot of agencies that has design and brand development shops. They do, they don't call it interior design, but they'll do like installation work or, you know, you know, that kind of a thing, but rarely will they call it interior design. Cause that's a whole other.
Motality or like level of design. Right.
Lynn Juang (07:01.645)
It's a whole other business model. Yeah. So we were like true interior design, interior architecture. yes, I know what you mean. It's funny because I, you know, there's all of these terms get very malleable depending on who's using it. Same thing with branding, same thing with strategy. All of these words live on a spectrum. But we were like true interior design.
Steve Guberman (07:10.178)
Okay.
Steve Guberman (07:17.825)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Steve Guberman (07:26.305)
Okay, yeah.
Lynn Juang (07:27.659)
team, were like trained architects, know, so, so that's part of, you know, part of the challenge was really having two very different design disciplines and also very different business models under under one roof. And so we throw that into the mix with navigating something like the pandemic, which obviously no one has any precedent for the needs of each team was very different. And so, you know, when you're trying to kind of make new policies, a on the fly,
be equitable for everybody when there are significant different drivers and considerations based on a team. It's very, very tricky for sure. Yeah.
Steve Guberman (08:08.566)
Yeah. The third thing that I love that you mentioned, and I mentioned it briefly in your bio, but I don't think I gave it any justice is how you call it like pop-up and how like I'll pop in for the fix and the thing that you need and, you know, dig into like whatever that challenge is, find a solution and then kind of get out of the way and let, the founders or the team run with the solution. So it's a different way of positioning because the word fractional has been just.
Vomited left and right since the pandemic everybody became a fractional whatever I don't even know that that word existed before but it's over existed it's and so you reframed it and I love that the way you did it especially like you're New York bound or based rather and pop-ups are a big thing in New York So it's I just I think it's a great way to frame it and so talk to talk to me about like what you're coming in as and what you're kind of Typical engagement looks like what are the fixes you're looking to put in place?
Lynn Juang (08:47.949)
Thanks.
Lynn Juang (09:04.525)
Sure. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because I, you know, the term fractional, well, two things, fractional and COO. I struggle a little bit with both. Fractional, I think it ultimately comes down to how you are defining it, right? And so I think the trick is, you know, everyone's kind of using it a little bit differently. And so I think in my somewhat limited experience, I think
Steve Guberman (09:26.861)
Mm-hmm.
Lynn Juang (09:33.315)
You know, the folks that I tend to work with definitely can skew a bit on the smaller size. And I think even fractional feels can feel like a bigger lift that it necessarily needs to be. Right. And so, you know, for, for studios that are, you know, they know they need some support and they know they need help. Certainly not full time. Even fractional just feels like a commitment. And I'm very conscious of.
Steve Guberman (09:45.827)
Yeah.
Lynn Juang (10:02.358)
the landscape we're in right now where everything feels really fragile, everything feels really volatile, and anything that feels like a commitment, everyone's like a little bit allergic to. And, you know, and I think with operations, I both love and hate the word operations because I think it's the only word that kind of encompasses sort of the breadth of what we do in this space where it is kind of like touches a bit of everything.
Um, where I struggle with it is that it can skew very tactical and very logistical and certainly part of it. Um, but the way that I work or, or what I do, it's, um, it's a little, I don't want to say softer is not the right word, but it's a bit, it's more, it's more macro and it is equally tactical and philosophical and cultural and, um,
really holistic in a way that I think a lot of like operations in quotes doesn't fully capture. And so, and I thought a lot about this because I think with a lot of what you know what consultants like you and I do like the precision with which we need to sort of define what we do I think is actually really important because I think it's I think it's still relatively new ish offering in the grand scheme of things.
Steve Guberman (11:26.339)
Mm-hmm.
Lynn Juang (11:26.842)
I think especially for, you know, for, people that I work with that are very design focused, very craft focused and the idea of like consulting or operations, they sound like very big words. And, and so I kind of was loosely playing around with pop-up business partner because that's kind of, you know, what I like to kind of function as, like when you just need a second brain and a thought partner to kind of just like work it out. And sometimes it might yield a very specific output or a
or deliverable or a playbook or something. And sometimes it really just is like someone there to kind of like work it out, talk it through and kind of hold your hand to get from point A to point B. I think there are a lot of founders or senior leaders who it's lonely at the top. They can't always talk to their staff because it's sensitive information or whatever.
or the staff also just is not maybe equipped to be the right thought partner for whatever the issue is. And they don't necessarily know what peers to talk to or maybe feels weird to talk to peers, because there's always this kind of underlying fear of competition or something or proprietary information. so sometimes you just need a pop-up business partner every once in a while to kind of get you through the hump of whatever
Steve Guberman (12:45.57)
Yeah.
Lynn Juang (12:49.166)
inflection point, whether that's a really small one or a really major one, like a reorg or a restructure. yeah, so I think really wanting to be meet folks where they're at in terms of what their tolerance is for this kind of support and also what they need. I think everyone wants to stay kind of as light-footed as possible. I think hopefully that, hopefully that I've always recently started kind of playing around with this, so hopefully.
Hopefully it blends with folks.
Steve Guberman (13:21.251)
love it. I, it to me, it feels approachable and digestible and small bites. It reminds me the visual, I'm a visual thinker. And so it reminds me of like the pop-up stand in the peanuts cartoons of I don't remember whether Lucy, whoever it was, who would be like advice five cents or something like that. And you know, it's like, you know, I'm here now, and I'll be gone tomorrow. So I love it for that sense, you know, and when you think about, you know,
Lynn Juang (13:39.83)
Yes, right.
Steve Guberman (13:50.531)
coaches like myself and other people in the industry who work with agencies most of our advice or guidance or the pain points people reach out to all of us about is Help me optimize for scale or profit or pipeline You're more interested in the conditions that make for a creative company like that actually helps them work And maybe it also points back to scaling and profit So talk about that and how you're helping optimize like what are some of the
pain points that they come to you with and what are some of the challenges that you're able to address.
Lynn Juang (14:24.686)
Yeah. I think, you know, I think there are a lot of, a lot of businesses that kind of started accidentally, right? It's the super talented fill in the blank creative director, architect, whomever who wanted to branch off on their own. And maybe they got to a certain level, you know, at their previous companies and wanted to do their own thing. And then, you know, organically, it's like, next thing you know, you've got five people, 10 people, 20 people. And.
Steve Guberman (14:33.997)
Mm-hmm.
Lynn Juang (14:54.35)
everything starts to feel a little bit unwieldy because you didn't really kind of plan for it. I will say even planning for it doesn't necessarily mean that you'll be in any different of a place where just things start to get the business has taken on a life of its own. Things start to feel a little bit unwieldy. You can't quite feel the contours of the business. Maybe you've kind of like lost sight of like what you're even doing or how you even got here and
I think especially for those who are very, again, very much craft focused and design forward, they want to be doing what they're really good at doing, which is making and designing and producing amazing things, which I think is really important. And I've seen too often just like the, it's the container is not sort of well thought through or the infrastructure isn't there to kind of really help support. so for me, I think
you know, where I kind of like work best with people is really to help them find their footing and like get to a stronger foundation. And the outcome might be growth or it's working towards growth. But like before we start barreling forward towards goal X, Y or Z, let's really kind of like take a beat and get a handle on what it is that we have right now. Where is it that you want to go? And then putting my strategist hat on, it's like, okay, you think you're you want to go here, but why?
Well, what I'm hearing is actually, I actually want to go over here, right? So it's a bit of all kind of like unpacking and drilling down into these sort of preconceived notions of what a successful business is and what a successful company is, because I think those are two very different things. You could have a really successful business in terms of inbound and sales and all of that. And behind the scenes, the company is really fragile or a house of cards, right?
Steve Guberman (16:19.587)
Mm-hmm.
Steve Guberman (16:47.051)
Interesting that you differentiate the two as opposed to like lumping it all together
Lynn Juang (16:47.074)
Still you know.
Lynn Juang (16:50.966)
I, you sometimes they're interchangeable, but I think I like to say professional splitter of hairs. I think they're different things. the, this like silly analogy that I'll use is like, let's say you have a T-shirt company, right? And the T-shirt company is going gangbusters. The orders are flowing in and you can't, you can barely keep up. So the business is doing great. The sales are great. The numbers look good.
but behind the scenes, it's like, it's you sewing on the patches or whatever, and you're getting your kids to help pack the boxes. Like the company, like the makeup of the, the container of the, of the business, isn't really strong enough to support the growth, support, just better ways of, of working. So to me, there is a differentiation. And, I think, you know, as someone who has been
kind of like the connective tissue, I say, of like of all of these different functions versus those who have maybe like really focused solely on finance or solely on growth and biz dev. I can kind of like connect the dots and kind of see where the gaps are in that foundation and why those cracks are starting to appear. And so I think really kind of getting a sense of the footing, getting a sense of where you want to go, it's kind of defining the starting point.
and the future end point, the in-between can be really loose, right? And I think that's where a lot of founders and business owners, myself included, where we stumble, where we think we have to like plan everything from start to finish, or the other way around, have a really clear end point and like reverse engineer our way there. Neither of those are wrong, but I think with so much change and volatility that we're experiencing right now,
I think the best we can do is know where we're starting, where we're heading, and leave a lot of room in the middle to kind of be able to be nimble and pivot as needed. And with that, I think requires just a bit of handholding to kind of like help people reframe, ask different questions, ask better questions, and kind of like broaden their purview to kind of what the different pathways could be and not be so fixated on a certain way of doing things.
Lynn Juang (19:13.618)
And yeah, so I think that having that really kind of like macro lens, I get it. When you're so in it, making the stuff, running projects, managing people, managing clients, it's really hard to see the forest for the trees. And there's a lot of chatter out there. It's really overwhelming, everything that's out there.
Steve Guberman (19:35.555)
Yeah, I'm a big fan of have a vision, but be open to whatever pathway you take as things pop up in the world, call it the universe, whatever you want to say, it's the result of be open to that end point, A, not being an end point and B, pivoting or shifting or whatever you want to call it. You know, if in three years I want to be here, but I realize either I can get there faster with a new methodology or tactic or where I think I want to get to isn't even where I want to get to in a year, I realize that was the wrong goal.
It's okay to change them. It's okay to shift things. don't, you know, we, I think we get tied, whether it's ego or, you know, what outer influences that says, well, I said I was going to be here. And if I don't go there, am I a failure? If I don't do this, what, how, how are other people going to perceive me? And that's all, you know, I call it copycat goals. It's all BS. It's all, you know, not nonsense. Um, so.
Lynn Juang (20:29.807)
I agree. I feel the same way about, ironically, I try to encourage everyone I work with, like, I'll help you with strategic planning. And I actually feel a few different ways about strategic planning, because I do think part of it is as much of the process of the planning as it is the plan. So it is a bit of like,
Steve Guberman (20:50.435)
Absolutely.
Lynn Juang (20:53.155)
you know, it's the journey, not the destination. Because I do think there's a lot of really valuable clarity that comes through just the exercise of the strategic planning. Whether or not it yields a perfect deck or not at the end that you adhere to is almost not the point. It's about really kind of like taking a moment to really kind of zoom out from the business and kind of like.
just kind of take a beat and sort of assess everything, you know, with a little bit of distance and a bit of objectivity. I think the other thing that's really important to me as someone who's, you know, kind of the number two, been on the receiving end of having to sort of like push things forward, I think part of why I also, not shy away, but if you're away from the more like strict business verticals,
and really focusing a little bit more around the people is I think the people who make up the teams, whether you have two, whether you have 20, whether you have 100, I think they sometimes get lost in the shuffle because I think a lot of founders forget what it's like to be an employee. I think if they forget what it's like to rise up through the ranks and not have mentorship, not have...
proper onboarding, not have the right tools with which to succeed, which I totally understand, right? They're fixated on the business and paying the bills and keeping the lights on. So their attention is fragmented now more than ever. But I think, you know, that's why I always kind of come back to like the conditions and the culture, right? Like all of these things have to play together. And if you're sort of over indexing on
one business vertical over the other without bringing everyone kind of along for the ride in a, you know, in a measured kind of way. All those efforts are not going to, they're not going to succeed the way that you want them to. And I think getting the, that buy-in from the team, and I know it's a really, really tricky balance to, to find of like transparency versus.
Lynn Juang (23:02.125)
utter opacity, I do think alignment at all times is, think, an undervalued goal in and of itself.
Steve Guberman (23:03.8)
Right.
Steve Guberman (23:10.531)
So what are some of the symptoms slash what's the downside of a founder being more and more removed from being an employee in your experience?
Lynn Juang (23:21.453)
I think it's the empathy and the, and I think that, yeah, or it's, I don't want to say losing empathy or it's become like out of sight, out of mind, right? Where the focus and energy is so much on kind of the business as a whole. And
Steve Guberman (23:24.928)
They're losing the empathy is what you're saying. Okay.
Lynn Juang (23:42.53)
Again, think going back to like, use the word context a million times a day, like, when you don't have the context of why someone is performing a certain way, and the other way around, when they on the employee side, but you don't have the context as to why certain decisions are being made. That's where a lot of friction comes a lot of just misalignment, and everyone starts making assumptions on half truths and half, you know, on half realities, and things just kind of start to
know, everyone starts to fill in the blanks, which I think is a very dangerous place to be. And it looks different for everyone, right? The degree of transparency or the degree of like communication and sharing is, it looks different. There's no kind of set standard necessarily, but I think we do our teams a disservice by not introducing more.
overall business fluency into their day to day, right? And there's a lot of like, oh, we're going to protect, protect in air quotes. We're going to let them focus on X, Y, or Z. We don't want to kind of distract them or alarm them. Again, I get that that's a very delicate line, but the fluency matters. The context in which, well, it really matters, I think.
Steve Guberman (24:41.219)
Totally agree. Yeah.
Steve Guberman (25:00.578)
Yeah.
Yeah. And if, and if founders and leadership teams are not informing their, their team, their teams are thinking about it anyway. Oh, we just signed a million dollar contract or a hundred thousand dollar contract. All that money is going to the boss's pocket. Like even simple stuff like that. Like what does it cost to keep the lights on? Why, why is it? We just made a hundred grand and I'm only getting paid whatever. And you know I mean? Like they're thinking about it. So be upfront, be direct, be transparent to an extent. And yeah.
Lynn Juang (25:24.719)
Exactly.
Lynn Juang (25:31.854)
Yeah, I really believe that. I think also, again, I'm not saying utter, don't give them the piano on day one, but at least an understanding of just like, it doesn't even have to be real numbers, frankly, just even understanding percentages or just like, hey, this is what it costs to just run a business, right? This is what goes into.
Steve Guberman (25:45.059)
percentages.
Lynn Juang (25:53.092)
when we say overhead or when we say, well, you know, I feel like finance also gets scapegoated a lot. We're like, it's like, well, finance says no. And then so we leave it at that. And it's like, what's the larger context? Like, so they understand that there are, you know, all of the sort of hidden costs that go into hiring, that go into your tech stack, that go into marketing, you know, there are a lot of hidden costs that people are not exposed to. And so I think the earlier we can get everyone to be a bit more
fluent with what goes into doing all of the doing. It makes, just helps contextualize their own work. And I think it makes them better designers, better client services, better project managers. I really believe that they, they will then feel a bit more empowered to make better recommendations, you know, for like, Hey, I know I can't think of an example, but like, Hey, I know that we're struggling with, you know, XYZ software or whatever.
knowing how we work and knowing sort of our constraints, like, Hey, I came up with these ideas or I found this other thing. I think when, you know, I think there's a lot of really valuable synergies that can come from just better communication and also just education for teams around. What is our business ecosystem look like? You know, they're always.
Steve Guberman (27:12.193)
Right. Yeah. It also helps nurture them through the ranks. the more they learn, the better, like eventually leaders they're going to become. And I'd rather any day, I'd rather people elevate from within than go and hire somebody else from the outside. So the more you're able to nurture them through. Absolutely.
Lynn Juang (27:27.021)
I totally
Yeah, whether they have aspirations to have their own business or not, even if they want to just stay on the IC track, like that all of that added context, I think will help it be a better version of whatever they're doing. Right. And I think having, you know, just a more, a more holistic understanding of what it takes to run a creative project.
Steve Guberman (27:41.347)
Mm-hmm.
Lynn Juang (27:55.425)
in the context of a creative business, in the context of this creative industry, all of that can only be a not feedback loop, but positive contextual information with which they can grow to better makers and creators.
Steve Guberman (28:10.243)
Yeah.
Steve Guberman (28:13.955)
Yeah, love it. Absolutely. Right there with you. 100 % on that same page from the entire like holistic view into a business. And the more you spoke, more I'm like, oh yeah, the difference between the company and the business side of the company, two separate entities, like from how they can be perceived and how they can operate. So I love the way that you approach how you work with your clients and kind of the framework that you bring to it and the experience that you have as the fractional, the pop-up, the whatever COO.
consultant advisor based on like the experience that you had. So super invaluable and appreciate you sharing it with everybody. I wanna wrap up with a couple of random rapid fire questions, nothing to be nervous about, they're super painless. What's a small purchase under 50 bucks that brought you way more joy than it should?
Lynn Juang (28:53.082)
Thanks.
Lynn Juang (28:57.26)
You
Lynn Juang (29:03.753)
under 50 bucks.
Lynn Juang (29:12.73)
God, I'm really stumped.
Steve Guberman (29:14.849)
I was too when somebody asked me, was like, what did I spend less than 50 bucks on? So I get it.
Lynn Juang (29:20.432)
I might say just like, think like a fancy, I love to cook and I love to cook and I love to entertain. So I think like a fancy pantry item is like very, you know, it's one of those like small luxuries where it just makes, you it looks nice on the counter. It feels nice to use. So maybe that'll be my emergency cop out answer. Fancy pantry items.
Steve Guberman (29:40.835)
sold.
What's a hill that you'll die on that has absolutely no consequence?
Lynn Juang (29:50.959)
I don't know that it doesn't have consequence per se, but I have several hills that I will die on. One of them is makers are not managers, are not mentors, are not leaders, are not visionaries. Those are all different things. Some people can be two of five, three of five, four or five, but I think we tend to conflate them all in a way that is not effective.
Steve Guberman (30:21.227)
Interesting. That's a whole other topic we can dig into, kind of the jumping between any of those five or all of those five or none of those five. So that's interesting. Yeah.
Lynn Juang (30:30.436)
I think it's just, it's the nuance. in the creative industry, sometimes we struggle with a lack of nuance and coming from a professional, being a professional over thinker, I'm like, I think I should just change my headline to be a professional over thinker. But I think they're different, because I think it can misplace expectations.
Steve Guberman (30:38.317)
Mm-hmm.
Steve Guberman (30:53.505)
Yeah, I think professional over thinker will connect with a lot of people real quickly. me too. Yeah. Finally, what's the weirdest thing in your fridge or pantry?
Lynn Juang (31:03.13)
this thing in my fridge or pantry.
Lynn Juang (31:09.671)
I have lot of fermented vegetables in my fold. I don't know if that's weird per se, but yeah, I lot of fermented vegetables, lot of fermented foods in Asian food, so I always have something lurking in the back.
Steve Guberman (31:12.545)
Hmm.
Steve Guberman (31:24.097)
Very cool, interesting. right. Lynn, I am super grateful for your time, your experience and what you're doing on the fractional side. So thank you so much for joining us and sharing all your information.
Lynn Juang (31:35.45)
Thank you so much. really, I mean, we could be here for hours. So really appreciate you having me and yeah, this was fun.
Steve Guberman (31:38.84)
easily.
Thanks.