Ep 168 – Rachel Zorel, 7 Layer Studio – How a Small Agency Builds a Culture That Keeps Clients for a Decade
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Featuring: Rachel Zorel, 7 Layer Studio
In episode 168, I sit down with Rachel Zorel, founder and creative director of Seven Layer Studio, a creative agency based in South Orange, New Jersey.
Rachel walks me through her path from young designer in New York City to giving notice the day after one coffee meeting, then spending more than a decade solo before building a team in 2017. We talk about what changes when you move from doing the work to directing it, why "work in progress" became a quiet philosophy inside her studio, and why her team chooses to work side by side. We also dig into her decision to stay broad across healthcare, philanthropy, food, education, and beauty rather than niche down.
For agency owners, this conversation is a reminder that culture is built through small, deliberate habits. Rachel shows how being honest about what you haven't done yet builds more trust than pretending, and why a generalist perspective can be a real differentiator when it is a choice rather than a default.
Key Bytes
• There is never a right time to start, so the waiting is usually the bigger risk.
• Reliability can become your brand promise when your industry is known for the opposite.
• As an owner, you never stop being close to the work, you just get close to it in new ways.
• Calling yourself a work in progress keeps the whole team open to getting better.
• Saying yes to new work only builds trust when you are honest about how much you have done.
• Some creative decisions are simply better made standing next to each other.
• Junior team members learn as much from overheard conversations as from formal training.
• A generalist agency can win because clients don't want to look like everyone else in their category.
Chapters
00:00 Meet Rachel Zorel and Seven Layer Studio
01:14 Leaving an agency job at 24 with no backup plan
02:37 Setting out to prove designers can be reliable
05:59 Moving from employee to freelancer to owner
09:25 What an owner's day looks like with a team of five
12:59 Why work in progress is a mindset, not just a sign
16:44 Saying yes to new work while staying honest
18:26 Why the team chooses to work side by side
22:57 Making the case for staying a generalist
25:13 Rapid fire and advice to a younger Rachel
Rachel Zorel is the founder and creative director of 7 Layer Studio, a creative agency in South Orange, New Jersey. She left her agency job at 24 to start a one-woman design company, then steadily and skillfully grew it, becoming 7 Layer Studio in 2017. The studio works with founder-led brands, seasoned businesses, and mission-driven organizations across health care philanthropy, food, education, beauty, and the nonprofit world. The studio's people-first culture is fueled by steady curiosity, insatiable creativity, and the room to not take it all too seriously. Outside of work, Rachel loves a good book, a well-planned trip, and her favorite, a movie night with her husband, four kids, and Rocky, their new puppy.
Connect with Rachel on LinkedIn, Instagram, their company website, or their company LinkedIn.
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Steve Guberman (00:01.757)
Welcome back to Agency Bytes. I'm your host, Steve Guberman from Agency Outsite, where I help agency leaders turn their business into an asset that they can grow, sell, or actually enjoy. On this episode, I'm talking with Rachel Zarell. She's the founder and creative director of Seven Layer Studio, a creative agency based in South Orange, New Jersey. Rachel left her agency job at twenty-four to start a one-woman design shop and steadily grew it into a seven layer studio. Now she and her team work with founder-led brands, seasoned businesses, and mission-driven organizations across
Healthcare, philanthropy, food, education, beauty, and the nonprofit world, all built on a people first culture, powered by curiosity, creativity, and not taking it all too seriously. Rachel, welcome to the show.
Rachel Zorel (00:43.79)
Thanks for having me, Steve.
Steve Guberman (00:45.813)
Yeah, I'm pumped to have you here. for a myriad of reasons. one, I'm a huge fan of Seven Layer Studio. Two, New Jersey is the best state. and so why not support the heck out of that? and I I think you got a pretty cool story and culture, and so I'm excited to highlight that. So yeah, here we are. I briefly touched on kind of your trajectory and your story of like bailing on an agency and starting your own gig. Give kind of what your
Rachel Zorel (01:05.262)
Thank you.
Steve Guberman (01:14.999)
perspective of the story of you know, the launch of Seven Layer and where you are today.
Rachel Zorel (01:21.048)
I started working out as working as a designer in New York City in my early 20s. I spent a couple years doing that. I was thinking a little bit about what my next move was gonna be. I wasn't interested in a corporate setting. I wasn't sure if I should pursue graduate school crossroads moment. My family is a family of entrepreneurs. And so, like deep in the back of my mind, I thought at some point I was gonna start my own thing.
Steve Guberman (01:39.245)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Zorel (01:48.526)
I knew a woman a couple years older and she had just started a PR company. So I reached out to her. We had a coffee meeting in Chelsea. My secret agenda was maybe she needs a designer and I'll go work for her. and we got to talking and she was asking me questions about myself and I told her, you know, eventually I'd want to start my own thing.
And she was like, Well, what are you waiting for? There's no right time, why don't you do it now? and it really energized me and it gave me a little bit of bravery and I left the meeting feeling like, Yes, I'm gonna do it now. I gave notice the next day, and I started, you know, a few weeks later on my own. that was back in two thousand and four.
Steve Guberman (02:18.283)
Okay.
Rachel Zorel (02:37.697)
I just got hired by friends of friends, and I kept hearing the same thing over and over, which was that designers were unreliable. I kept hearing it and I felt I was just determined to change that narrative. I was solo as a designer for over a decade, learning how to run a business, learning how to work with clients, the bills, invoices, like how to how to run a project successfully.
lots of great personal life things at the same time. I got married, had four kids, moved to the suburbs in New Jersey. And then in 2017, we became seven layer studio and I began to hire a team at that point. today, which is now you know two decades in, most of our clients have been with us for between you know five years, ten years, you know, long-term.
clients. We still love working across many industries and categories. It keeps things challenging, energizing. No two projects are ever the same. And today we're a tight team of five people. We all wear many hats. Same figure it out attitude that that I began the business with a long time ago and our studios in South Orange.
Steve Guberman (03:45.249)
Yeah.
Steve Guberman (03:55.414)
Awesome. I love it. Same very similar story to mine, except I freelanced alongside of my full time job, which was like a lot, you know, it was nights and weekends. and I admire your like, I'm just gonna give notice the next day. So whoever that PR agency founder was, props to them for saying like the thing that needs to be said is there's never a right time. Just do it. You know, very similar to like advice you give to you know, wannabe young parents, like, we don't know if we have enough money in the bank.
knock it off, go make a baby. Like there's never gonna be enough money in the bank. so I I highly support that. because also like and Gary V talks about this. If you're a Gary V fan, I am. He's also a Jersey guy. he says like if you've got a backup plan, you're never gonna lean into your side gig as a full time gig because you'll always have that cushion. So it took me, like personally, it took me like some pinnacle like pinnacle events to be able to quit my job and like launch my thing and you were like, I'm all in, I'm gonna do it.
Rachel Zorel (04:26.209)
Yes That's right.
Rachel Zorel (04:41.952)
Mm-hmm.
Steve Guberman (04:53.198)
so I have two questions about that. One is what's the story behind the name Seven Layer Studio? 'Cause I just think of Jersey Diner Chocolate Layer Cake. And I don't know if that's it or
Rachel Zorel (04:59.116)
Yeah.
Rachel Zorel (05:02.401)
Yeah. I mean, it's not not it. I didn't grow up in Jersey though. I grew up in Rockland County. And the truth of the matter is that Seven Layer Cake was my absolutely favorite cake. but in addition to that, we had like more strategic things about our process and the layers of the work we do. But I mean really distilled down what's better than cake.
Steve Guberman (05:12.48)
Okay.
Steve Guberman (05:30.712)
Perfect. I love it. I love it. And like your visual branding is beautiful and visual identity and graphical languages that you've developed obviously are beautiful and support like the the I guess I don't know if you call it ribbon treatment or whatever, but like those layers of the elements. And then my second question out of that, your I guess call it like an ascension ladder, call it the the road the the on ramp, whatever want to call it, from being an employee to a freelancer to an owner.
Rachel Zorel (05:58.551)
Mm-hmm.
Steve Guberman (05:59.658)
My my experience was very similar and I find that I'm often telling founders that I'm working with in like a coaching setting that when you're looking to hire, it's rare that you will find somebody that's gonna cross those three silos or mindsets or whatever you want to call them. And I'm curious what your experience was going from like just the life of an employee versus the life of a freelancer versus the life of an owner and now like
Yeah, and and and the owner is a different thing than being a freelancer, right? Because now you're responsible for people, et cetera. So I'm curious what that's like for you.
Rachel Zorel (06:31.085)
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my my time as an employee was relatively short. It was, you know, in at least in this industry, it was really post-college for a couple of years only. but those couple of years, you know, you learn quite a bit. And I think that
A really open mindset of being a sponge and absorbing everything you can from the people around you. You know, some folks come in with sort of a no-it-all mindset, some people come in with really, really open. So I think like the more open somebody could be at that early stage, the better and just kind of soak it all in. But the transition is really interesting because like most folks in our industry, and I know you've spoken about this in the past in your podcast, is that most of us are not going to school, business school to run a business. Most
Steve Guberman (07:20.429)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Zorel (07:20.961)
People are getting a degree as a designer or, you know, or whatever, something similar. And it takes a long time to really learn how to run the business. And I've always loved being very, very close to the work. You know, I've o for most of my career, I loved doing all of it because I really love the operations of the business, the process, the relationships with clients, and then really doing the work. And I and I remember having conversations maybe.
10 years ago with somebody about like, do you always want to be the one like making the edit, making the change? You know, and I remember answering, like, yes, I can't imagine not being in there. But then you learn over time that you're in there, but you're in there in different ways. And it's really gratifying to to teach somebody else how to do things the way, you know, the way that it could be really successful, and then learn different aspects of it and find fulfillment in.
Steve Guberman (07:59.854)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Zorel (08:18.725)
in new areas because I think part of the fun of the trajectory is learning new things. You know, things don't stay the same. and for the most part I'm usually spending my time directing and running the business, but I always like jump in out of, you know, a handful of creative projects during the year because it's just so much fun.
Steve Guberman (08:40.779)
I vividly recall saying the same thing, like, I'm always gonna be doing mock ups or paste ups or like I still have some of the paste up books that I made during my internship. So like I I vividly remember like even owning my shop, like of course I'm always gonna do comps and design edits and whatever. And then it gets to a point where you're like my time is far better spent not doing this. And over time even it's like, the the younger folk, they're just far better at it than I am. Right. So I don't know, r even now, like
Yeah, I've said many times, like I'm so rusty as a designer that I'd rather just delegate it and have somebody do it. But as an owner, your time is far more valuable to do the top level stuff. We say like the thousand dollar an hour things versus the twenty dollar an hour things, right? So what what's your day to day look like as a as an owner with a team of five?
Rachel Zorel (09:25.559)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Zorel (09:30.88)
Yeah, we're pretty set with our hours. So my day usually starts around like 8 39. I always start my day first really opening up my notebook. Like I I'm I have continued this is like one part of my process that has never changed from when I was in my twenties, is that I just like love keeping a written list in addition to our project management software where I have all my lists and subtasks and all that stuff.
Steve Guberman (09:57.485)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Zorel (10:00.154)
because I there's something about taking a moment writing things down. So just sort of wrapping my head around what's in the day. and then some days we start with team meetings, some days we have client meetings in the in the morning. we usually have some you know, team sinks and like stand ups as a team where we're kind of talking over things and then I try to block periods of times where I'm just kind of heads down in my office, just kind of getting through some work. But every day's a little bit different, which is which is good.
structure but also some some difference between them.
Steve Guberman (10:33.717)
And and your role is I mean, you're not doing design as much anymore, I would imagine. Your client relations, biz dev
Rachel Zorel (10:39.731)
Yeah. Yeah. So I am doing I spend a bunch of time talking like new business prospects, talking to existing clients where we're having meetings presenting work, sometimes going, you know, going to our clients, presenting new work. this morning we had an architecture firm here. We were going through some website stuff for them, meeting with my creative team, overseeing what they're doing, giving feedback.
You know, that kind of stuff like new new business ideas, operations, big thinking, small thinking, emails, you know, just keeping things moving. There's never a dull moment. Walking the puppy, that has become a very new important part of my day.
Steve Guberman (11:21.121)
Yeah.
But I will say, so I used to bring my dog to the office. She's now on my couch here sleeping. it and when I would take the dog around the block, like I'm a big fan of taking a walk around the block no matter what. I think it frees up a lot of creative juices. It it it moves the blocks that are blocked up, right? So that's like, hey, get a dog and force yourself to go for a walk because a lot of magic happens on those walks. Yeah.
Rachel Zorel (11:44.588)
I couldn't agree more. Yeah. Like we always talk as a team about like protecting space away from the desk, but in reality, there is so much to do in a day. And we're really serious about wrapping the day at a very reasonable time. So it becomes even harder during that window of time to walk away. But we still like we because we are we're in person in the studio three days a week and then we're remote two days a week.
And so the three days that we're in the studio, we usually will eat lunch all together as a team. We have a little space outside. When it's nice out, we'll go sit out there. but then in addition to that, there's nothing like stepping away, walking around the block. It clears your head. Slack is still right there. You can get to it. Yeah.
Steve Guberman (12:32.385)
You're found. I I don't know if you're a madman, madman fan, but there's like a scene early on where he like just dips out for the day and goes to the movies and like I remember watching that thinking, nobody knows where this dude is. And that's just not a thing that's been possible for like twenty five years. You can't just dip out and be like nobody knows where I am, I'm hiding in the movie theater. You can be tracked, you can be emailed and slacked and all these things. So yeah, they're they've got your number.
Rachel Zorel (12:49.633)
I know.
Rachel Zorel (12:59.221)
Yeah.
Steve Guberman (12:59.351)
Culture is super important for you, which I love. Talk about so you told me about you've got a print in the studio that you design. It says work in progress. and I love that. I think that it's I I want to hear more of your perspective on it, but so I love that. I think it's a really beautiful way to like build a mindset. Talk about like what it means to you guys.
Rachel Zorel (13:17.345)
Yeah, absolutely. So when we were designing our office space, we had some some spots that we had to put, you know, we had we used to have a a shop that we made a lot of cool prints, and we framed some of that stuff. And then we had some other spots to design some new things. So I was like, okay, this is a fun project for me. And I was trying to think about what we I wanted to do something typographic. And I thought about putting in work in progress. And it was really more of a very practical, like cute typographic thing.
But I walk past it, you know, every morning when I come into my office. And it sort of struck me that it's not, yes, it's practical. We're sitting here, we're working, we're at our desks, but it's really a mindset that things are never really solved. They're not ever a hundred percent locked. And no matter what stage you are in your career, it's essential to be open minded because the world doesn't stop, culture doesn't stop, and as small businesses
You need to think about how you could evolve, change, reflect on what you're doing in order to keep growing also.
Steve Guberman (14:26.423)
Does your team look at it like I I mean, I'm picturing it like the sign in the locker room in Ted Lasso that says believe. I'm picturing it like that where you guys go out to a team like a client meeting, you're like, Let's slap the work in progress sign on the way out or No, okay.
Rachel Zorel (14:32.926)
Yeah.
Rachel Zorel (14:37.229)
No, I mean we we have we have our values and we have like, you know, things like that and like all in has been kind of a a cultural you know value that we talk about a lot. But this this work in progress is more of like a background mindset that only very recently it occurred to me that's like a deeper philosophy, but it's really enmeshed in everything we do. So
like even if you ask anybody around, like after we do a project, we sit, you know, we do a project recap, we talk about it, even projects that we've been doing the same things for 10 years. Hey, how could this have been different? This thing happened, this was really interesting. How could next time we anticipate how to better serve our clients and make sure that we're getting ahead on that? You know, it's just like constantly being open.
Steve Guberman (15:27.617)
Yeah. I think for for like the human versus like the project, it's a thing that reminds people that like there's no arrival point. We're always being, you know, able to be molded. And so it's like a almost like a a humbling statement of you're you're never arriving. You're always like, you know, adding adding to your tool belt or whatever and hopefully getting better at your craft. And when you couple that with you one of your founding principles that you said early, maybe I don't know if it's on the wall or not, but you said like the figure it out mentality.
Rachel Zorel (15:41.133)
Yeah.
Rachel Zorel (15:56.373)
Mm-hmm.
Steve Guberman (15:56.724)
my good friend John owns an agency in in Delaware, First Ascent, and he turned me onto the acronym FitFo, so it's figure it the F out. And that's like a core value that you can't find in younger generations anymore. But when you couple that with like always a work in progress, that's to me a powerhouse.
Rachel Zorel (16:13.887)
Yeah, yeah. And like we have we've always been a yes studio. You know, like when I think back like super early on in my career, being asked like, hey, do you do this? Yes, you know, and then you figure it out. But there are still things that we're asked sometimes where we figure it out, you know, like there's fewer and fewer things, of course, because you know, we've worked in so many different a areas and categories.
but there are still new things that we're starting to do and then learning how to do them really well.
Steve Guberman (16:44.449)
Yeah. Do you find that when you say, All right, we're going to try this thing 'cause the client asked us and we don't want to say no. We don't want to refer it out for somebody else, those typically go well, go like how do they typically play out for you when you're kicking new type new things around?
Rachel Zorel (16:59.677)
They're usually ki they're usually playing out well because I'm very transparent and our clients will trust us, you know. And so if if like we've worked with a client for a long time and they're, hey, we want to bring our entire video production to your team and we know you could do it, we're like, okay, we've got it, you know, and they know that it, you know, we've only done let's say five or whatever it is.
but then we do it once, we learn how to perfect it, we do it another time. We're obviously bringing in experts in our field or you know, there's other examples too. But yeah, I I mean the one thing that I don't do is like ever pretend that it's something that we have major experience in if we don't. but you know, of course, like our studio is at the point where we have we have credibility and trust built in just because of our longevity.
Steve Guberman (17:20.929)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Zorel (17:49.217)
But yeah, I think I think being honest mixed into the the yes answer is a good combo.
Steve Guberman (17:58.274)
Yeah, because yeah, you say, Yeah, we could do that. We've done it a million times and you haven't done it, and they're like, great, we're expecting the, you know, the greatest, shiniest, most efficient deliverable. And they're like, Yeah, it's not gonna be that, but we'll figure it out for you. You're also super intentional about like the on top of culture is like how you build your team and having everybody in house, which I was very similar. I it was kind of at the dawn of people were thinking, we can just hire people all over the country.
Rachel Zorel (18:09.452)
Yeah, sure.
Steve Guberman (18:26.377)
Jason Freed had just put out rework and so like there was the the mindset of not everybody needs to be in house and you are all local, all in the agency, all in the studio, freelancers as needed, but like no outsourcing, no remote. talk about like what that means to you and to the work you're doing and to your team and culture and everything.
Rachel Zorel (18:46.453)
Yeah.
You know, culture, as we've touched on, is tremendous, and so is like human connection. And so, you know, to me, running running this studio is about great, excellent work and being effective for our clients, but also doing it together as a team where we can all learn from each other and be inspired by each other and discuss things. We're big talkers around here, we like kind of laugh at ourselves, like, let's talk about.
This, you know. and you know, more and more, especially in recent years, this like this need for connection and doing meaningful work with people, you know, shoulder to shoulder with other people is huge. And, you know, I spent a long, long time as a solo designer, which I really did love. And it did allow me a lot of flexibility, especially becoming a parent and having kids and all of that. And I think that
you know, there was a a moment in my career when I knew it was I was sort of at this moment where I knew I could either start taking less work on or expand and hire another designer. and then having that experience of working with another designer, it's so energizing and it sparks so much creativity and it continues to, you know, like I learn from my design team all the time, you know, and so
It's otherwise you're sort of in a vacuum. Even you know, you're sort of in silos working together but apart. And so and even after because we opened our first like real studio, not just like a co-working space, three months before COVID. And I know and you know, during during that time, you know, we spoke as a team about
Steve Guberman (20:32.429)
Great timing.
Rachel Zorel (20:41.451)
Hey, like what's the next step here? Especially like when I had to look for a new office space, like even after that, we were in that office for a number of years. and we talked about it as a team. Like, hey, how is everybody feeling? Like, is this still an important part? And everybody felt universal about wanting to show up and work together. And we do have two days though that were remote. So there is some some nice balance there.
Steve Guberman (21:06.625)
Yeah, I think that's great that they were like, Yeah, this is this is how we thrive. We want to continue to do this. And the work thrives. And I don't know. I see I see agencies doing it fully remote and I'm like, Cool, you're doing good work, but I don't know. I I loved having everybody let let's all get in the conference room and and critique this thing or talk about this potential project or we we would have like on Fridays, show and tell, or we'd watch Mad Men on Fridays, or like whatever the thing was.
Rachel Zorel (21:26.294)
Yeah.
Rachel Zorel (21:34.098)
Mm-hmm.
Steve Guberman (21:34.273)
doing it in person and having that human connection, it's like there's no exchange for it. It's invaluable. You can't do that on Slack or Zoom or whatever. So
Rachel Zorel (21:42.124)
No, it's so different. And then there's also the practical part about when you're when you're designing something that is gonna become a physical product, whether you know it's something that's gonna sit on the shelf or something, you know, we're in the middle of doing a big design for a bakery. Like there's real decisions that have to do with scale, distance, like conversations to have as a creative team that's like so practical. Like, hey guys, let's point, let's print this out and look at the point size together.
it's it's just different when you're not together.
Steve Guberman (22:15.287)
Yeah, I mean you mentioned packaging, like you can't do three D comps on Slack or Zoom and to ha have the tangibility of what you've just comped up or built or glued up or whatever. I mean, who's doing that from their home in in Kansas when the agency is rooted in New York or whatever? It doesn't I don't that doesn't compute for me.
Rachel Zorel (22:21.996)
Yeah.
Rachel Zorel (22:34.071)
Yeah. Yeah. And then especially for folks who are really early or in early in their career, you don't have the same opportunity to overhear conversations, to be part of meetings you might not be a part of, even like simply interacting with clients coming in. It's just, you know, the it's not it there's so many layers of being the benefits of being in person.
Steve Guberman (22:57.131)
Yeah. I wanna ask real quick about positioning before we wrap up. So you guys play in a handful of different verticals. healthcare, philanthropy, food, education, beauty, and nonprofits. are those like chosen verticals or like would you say that we've niched into these or this is just what we love doing? How would you define your positioning?
Rachel Zorel (23:18.635)
Yeah, it's kind of a combination. you know, we have always been very broad and folks have come to us for our variety. And it's really just keep i a lot of our business is is incoming. And so sometimes like we'll get referred, like if we're working, let's say, for a school, like for other schools we'll see the type of work that we have and they'll come to us or the same for
foundations or food and beverage, hospitality, that kind of stuff. And so, you know, we've kept ourselves really open in that respect, which I know is different than what a lot of folks do, but we you know, we love it that way and it keeps a really nice variety. And you know, specifically clients have come to us because we aren't only in healthcare. You know, they've come to us because we have a broader perspective and they don't want to look only like one thing.
Steve Guberman (24:13.249)
Yeah. No, I I see it both ways. I mean I I push a lot of firms to position themselves tighter, and stop being generalists. And then in other cases, you know, I had the same thing when I had my firm. It's like I can present a different perspective rather than you going to work with a healthcare only agency or a pharma only agency or whatever, because we work with all of these different sectors. So yeah, I see it work both ways.
Rachel Zorel (24:22.934)
Yeah.
Steve Guberman (24:40.077)
I'm not it's not a cross I'm or a hill I'm ever gonna die on with a client or with an agency, but there's there's pros and cons to it.
Rachel Zorel (24:43.625)
Yeah. And we've had a lot of really there really are, and we've had a lot of, you know, long, extensive conversations about this, but ultimately people exist in the world in a multifaceted way. They're taking in information, you know, 20 different ways in one second. And so being only in one industry, it's one perspective, and that's not really a reflection of people move through the world.
Steve Guberman (25:13.035)
Yeah. Yeah, very true. All right, let's wrap up and throw a few random rapid fire questions at you. First is let's see, what's your favorite typeface?
Rachel Zorel (25:18.625)
Let's do it.
Rachel Zorel (25:22.909)
man, that's a great question. I loved Bidoni for so many years early in my career. It's just so elegant and beautiful and timeless and old but also current. So let's go. I c I don't know favorite, but I've loved Bidoni.
Steve Guberman (25:26.637)
You're gonna
Steve Guberman (25:39.913)
Love it. Okay. what is something that you is part of your daily routine or daily habit that kind of gets you on the right track that you can't live without?
Rachel Zorel (25:48.631)
Mm, waking up early, taking a walk.
Steve Guberman (25:52.459)
Yeah. And the house is still sleeping, the kids are still I mean, you have te you have older kids, they're sleeping until two PM anyway, so
Rachel Zorel (25:55.446)
Yes.
Yes, I have twelve, fourteen, sixteen, eighteen.
Steve Guberman (26:01.781)
Yeah. and then finally, what is a an invaluable piece of business advice that you can go back twenty years and give younger Rachel?
Rachel Zorel (26:09.791)
Mm.
Rachel Zorel (26:14.593)
Be patient, but stay hungry. You know, early early on in your career you gotta move through the grit, you the no shortcuts, but really keep the stamina and drive from you know beginning to wherever you are at that moment. And also buckle up, it's a roller coaster, no straight lines.
Steve Guberman (26:17.483)
Hm. Love that.
Steve Guberman (26:31.138)
Love it.
Steve Guberman (26:35.863)
That's a good add-on. I'm glad that was a postmark. postscript rather. Rachel, thank you so much for joining me. Seven layer studio in West Orange, New Jersey or South Orange, New Jersey. Thank you so much for joining us.
Rachel Zorel (26:41.281)
Thank you.
Rachel Zorel (26:45.921)
Thank you.