Ep 126 – Meeky Hwang, Ndevr – From Code to Courage: A Founder’s Journey in Tech
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Featuring: Meeky Hwang, Ndevr
In episode 126, I sit down with Meeky Hwang, CEO and partner at Endeavor, a WordPress development agency powering digital platforms for major media and enterprise brands like Bloomberg, Forbes, and Sony. With over two decades of experience in development and DevOps, Meeky has built Endeavor into a trusted name in the WordPress ecosystem while also paving the way as a female leader in tech.
We talk about her accidental journey into agency ownership, what it’s like leading in an industry where women are still underrepresented, and how Endeavor built its three-pillar framework for resilient platforms. Meeky shares candid insights on navigating partnerships, the challenges of “over-engineering” with headless CMS, and the importance of masterminds and community for entrepreneurs.
Key Bytes
• Meeky shares how an “accidental” freelance project led to a decade-long partnership and agency.
• She discusses the importance of having clear role delineation with her co-founder to avoid missteps.
• Endeavor’s three-pillar framework (audience experience, editorial experience, developer experience) keeps their platforms resilient.
• She explains why many publishers are moving away from over-engineered headless CMS solutions back to WordPress.
• As a female leader in tech, she reflects on mentorship, representation, and inspiring others by simply “being the first.”
• She stresses the value of mastermind groups for growth and support, something she wishes she’d pursued earlier.
• Endeavor is exploring AI to streamline workflows and even testing new content tools for clients.
• Her advice for organizations: implement proper version control and CI/CD to avoid preventable tech mistakes.Chapters
00:00 Welcome and introduction to Meeky Hwang
03:00 Becoming an “accidental” agency founder
07:00 Women in tech and leadership representation
11:00 Why Endeavor niched into WordPress and media
12:30 The three-pillar framework for resilient platforms
15:00 Headless CMS pitfalls and returning to WordPress
18:00 Navigating co-founder roles and partnerships
23:00 AI, internal tools, and what’s next for Endeavor
25:00 The power of masterminds for entrepreneurs
27:00 Rapid fire: karaoke, hobbies, and tech stack fixes
Meeky Hwang is the CEO & Partner at Ndevr, a WordPress development agency trusted by leading digital media and enterprise companies. With 20+ years of experience in web development, open-source technology, and DevOps, she specializes in optimizing complex digital ecosystems, streamlining editorial workflows, and aligning technology with business goals.
Meeky has helped major brands like PMC, Hearst, Bloomberg, Forbes, and Sony build scalable, high-performing digital platforms. A champion for women in tech, she is passionate about fostering opportunities for the next generation of leaders.
Contact Meeky on their website.
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Steve / Agency Outsight (00:01.472)
Welcome to Agency Bites, a podcast dedicated to helping creative entrepreneurs thrive. I'm Steve Gilbertman from Agency Outsite, where I coach agency owners to build the agency of their dreams. My guest this week is Mickey Huang. She's a CEO and partner at Endeavor, a WordPress development agency trusted by major media and enterprise brands. With over two decades of experience in web development and DevOps, Mickey's helped power digital platforms for companies like Bloomberg, Forbes, and Sony.
She's also a passionate advocate for women in tech and a strong voice for aligning technology with real business outcomes. Thank you for joining me. great to see you.
Meeky Hwang (00:35.567)
Thanks for having me, Steve.
Steve / Agency Outsight (00:37.218)
Yeah. so kind of the obvious topic, something I'm super excited about and passionate about is like elevating female voices, women in tech, women, entrepreneurship. Tell me about like your journey as a female entrepreneur.
Meeky Hwang (00:54.181)
My female, well my journey as a female entrepreneur is accidental actually. think I've told some of my friends too because when we started I wasn't thinking about I'm gonna start a company, I'm gonna do this. It was more...
Steve / Agency Outsight (01:05.102)
Mm-hmm.
Meeky Hwang (01:07.237)
kind of happened organically and naturally when my co-founder, Matt and I worked at the same agency before, same company before, and he was pretty much overseeing the entire practice. And I was like a tech manager just promoted, but I learned so much from him. But I was already thinking about leaving the company for my other personal reasons, and he left before me. And he knew that I was thinking about leaving because I was talking to him about it before.
And when he left, he, I, when I left shortly after and I was kind of doing a freelance project because I had a little gap between like trying to figure out what I want to do next. And he, he and I worked on a small freelance project. And because of that, we're working really closely together. talking about, you know, how we should make this project better and like what works well. then I realized that my style of working and his style of working really fit really well. So.
with that we're kind of naturally talking. was like, why don't we start a company? So like, that's how it all started. And I was actually glad that I was that naive and didn't know and that knew a lot. Like having him as a partner helped a lot because I didn't really think of a lot of other things to running a company that came from him because he already was a partner running the practice. So he knew a lot about that, about that insights. And then he also had a connection so that we were invited to one of the...
private owner summit type of conference thing. So it was very small group and I learned a ton from that group just started. We were just starting and everyone was pretty established at the time. So because of that, I was lucky enough to have a partner who can kind of guide me through, get there. But I didn't know a lot of things and hindsight, if I think about it, it's better that I didn't know because like I put that much more effort into it because I didn't know. But it wasn't planned. It was just kind of like
learning as I was going. And then it's just because we're 10 years this year. And it still feels like I just started. There's so much to learn still. And there's like a lot of different challenges and different things, great things, and then bad things all happen. But it still feels like it's new thing that I'm still learning.
Steve / Agency Outsight (03:20.174)
Yeah, 10 years, congratulations. That's very exciting. And having a partner where you guys compliment one another and can support one another. And I think that's beautiful. Most agency owners are accidental agency or accidental business owners. Like that's the reality. We have a job, we think we can do it better or we get laid off or you know, our manager or creative director pisses us off. I'm gonna go do my own thing and hang out my own jingle. Shoot, I know how to build websites or do branding, but I don't know how to run a business. So
Meeky Hwang (03:22.307)
Yeah.
Steve / Agency Outsight (03:48.462)
That's the nature of our entire industry. think like very few of us went to business school or have an MBA or like we went to art school or no school or, you know, learned how to be developers, that kind of thing, marketing, whatever. So yeah, you're, you're in the right place with that. But there's so few women in leadership roles in our industry. And I know during COVID there was a big push in a lot of the holding companies that were like, we're going to
You know, elevate a certain percentage and it was really, I think for optics more than true culture and, truly finding the right talent and helping women be leaders. What have you seen in the 10 years as a leader? People looking to you, have you felt pressure? Have you faced obstacles? Like what were some of the, I guess, pluses and minuses there for you?
Meeky Hwang (04:38.883)
I'm actually glad to see a lot more women leaders and then also women in tech as well. Because when I started, it was very few. Even like when I was, I did go to engineering school. I didn't do computer science because I wanted to do business science. like this thing called systems and information engineering, but I had to take all the computer science classes to get to the next level. That was our filter to get into our program. But at the same time, it's like, it's always like I'm one of the few.
Steve / Agency Outsight (04:51.086)
Okay.
Meeky Hwang (05:08.303)
maybe one or two female in the entire class. So it's very, and also I've been minority, I feel like all my life. like it was, it didn't bother me, but it actually make me work harder. Cause like I have something to prove. Cause like, you know, just because I'm different doesn't mean that I can do this. So I always had that as my driving force. But I know a lot of times that that's not for the, it's not the case for a lot of different people, which.
Steve / Agency Outsight (05:24.088)
Mm-hmm.
Meeky Hwang (05:37.463)
It's just fine, at the same time, so it was harder, felt like, but I'm seeing over the course of years, I'm seeing a lot more female developers, female software engineers, even when I was hiring people, which is really great to see, and I try to help them more. And then we can relate more in a lot of different situations, because there are, even though there's all this equality things going on, there is the different nuances of weird things happen in smaller and bigger scale.
A lot of times it's because it's not like they're intentionally doing it, but it's more like they don't know. Because they don't know about how to handle different people or different than you. But I don't think it's just because it's my minority. It's just like, it's probably for everyone. Because I actually don't know how to be a male in the industry. they might not think differently, because I don't know. It's just that ignorance. I just started to accept that.
And then it kind of helped a lot to just kind of navigate through if there's like a weird things I encounter. But I also see that in entrepreneur or the leadership level too, because I think there was always like, I was the first one happening. Because even for the previous company, I think I was the first technical manager for the company, the female. And that they wanted to keep me for whatever reason, because that represents different things.
Steve / Agency Outsight (06:34.04)
Mm-hmm.
Meeky Hwang (07:00.643)
And then they promoted other female engineers to get to that level. And it was actually great to see that I was mentoring a couple of people to get to that level. like it give them more interest. I can do this, too. So like it was actually honoring experience for me to kind of be the role that they want to be. So I thought throughout the course of my career feels like I'm doing something that I want to do that might be helpful for the people who might look at it to see like, because sometimes it's like
Steve / Agency Outsight (07:18.434)
Mm-hmm.
Meeky Hwang (07:29.369)
You don't want to be the first one to do it. But when you see someone did it, like, I can probably do this. And especially when I talk to them, they know that I'm very similar to them. I'm not nothing special. And then they'll just kind of grab it as like, I can do this. So I feel like that's something that I'm actually happy to do with a lot of people. So hopefully that I'm doing it right so that people will actually want to do more leadership role, something that they're not familiar with. They want to jump into it.
Steve / Agency Outsight (07:58.71)
Yeah. I think even if you don't do it right, the fact that you're doing it and if you own any mistakes that you make and your trips along the way, it's inspiring as hell for so many other people that, if this person can do it, then I can do it as well. And I think we need more of the courageous or courage from leaders like yourself to like take that risk and do it and put yourself out there and get on a stage at word camps and things like that and show people that it's possible.
You know, there's been more and more initiatives over the years. The only one like top of mind is like girls who code and like, all these, you know, programs to elevate, you know, females and minorities and et cetera. Whether that's to be a developer, to be a leader, to be an entrepreneur, like, yeah. So I think whether you give yourself credit for it or not. Yeah. You can't look through your eyes as like a white male entrepreneur or anything like that, but
you can take the experiences that you have to inspire others and hopefully they then see, hey, I can do it also and whatever that it is, right? And so, yeah, I I applaud the courage from anybody who's doing it. yeah. So 10 years Endeavor, you guys are deeply niched in the WordPress community. You're doing large scale media builds.
Meeky Hwang (09:16.421)
you
Steve / Agency Outsight (09:22.498)
Have you always been in the WordPress open source space since you launched it?
Meeky Hwang (09:27.587)
Yeah, so when we launched, we were more close to open source. So we did other CMS. But yeah, mostly staying in the digital media publisher industry, because that's where we were from, because New York. Matt is actually, he worked at MTV and Timing and all those places before he went to the different agency. And I did work at Hearst before I went to the other agency as well. So we had that background of familiarity.
with those clients and then kind of like the workflow and process we're just familiar with it. But it applies to all the other enterprise level companies. we just wanted to make sure that we wanted to kind of niche down to see what we're good at and what we are familiar with. We did have initially, did, we're open source was our thing because we did have some clients that did other ones like, know, Adobe ones or like the .NET stuff, but we like open source.
So there were Drupal, Laravel or other ones that we use as a CMS. But WordPress was one of the things that we wanted to just focus on because it was 43 % of, I think it was a step from 2023, is that 43 % of all the websites is powered by WordPress. So it's a big market. Yeah, it's a big market. So we wanted to kind of like make sure that, you know, and also it's an easier entry for a lot of editors because they're familiar with it because it's so
Steve / Agency Outsight (10:41.952)
It's mind blowing, yeah.
Meeky Hwang (10:52.689)
That gives a lot of advantage to start off with. It's just like a training gets a lot easier. So that was kind of like a reason behind trying to niche down to WordPress.
Steve / Agency Outsight (11:03.842)
Yeah, and I don't know the accuracy of the numbers, but I heard a stat recently that something like, of the top visited 100 websites, like 60 % of those are also powered on WordPress or something crazy like that. So yeah, it's got a foothold, that's for sure.
Meeky Hwang (11:14.213)
Yeah. It's and also like initially it was known as a blogging tool, but you can do a lot more. It's really it's like at the end of the day, it's like a code that you just need to add on to make it customized. And we do a lot of custom ones because we're dueling with enterprise level because there's a lot of integrations for like different privacy reasons and then other reasons. So I mean, even Whitehouse is also using.
So it's proven to be secure enough for all these bigger companies to adopt it.
Steve / Agency Outsight (11:48.236)
Yes, as long as it's set up properly, right? And there's guardrails put in place. And that's something that you guys take a lot of pride in as far as like a DevOps standpoint. You're not just designing and putting up a blog. You guys are building infrastructure and you have specific framework that you've, I guess, developed that you use. Or do want to talk about that?
Meeky Hwang (11:50.499)
I'm Bob Spongoli.
Meeky Hwang (12:09.059)
Yeah, so we try to look at it. We call it a platform because it becomes a platform once we start putting together and then build it. And so we like to, we call it a three framework. We like to see it as a three pillars. It's like a three legged stool. So like any three pillars, if there's something lacking, it's not going to stand. It's just going to tip over. So three pillars is audience experience, editor or creator experience, and the developer experience. So audience experience is like what you see on the front end, the security, UX, UI.
Steve / Agency Outsight (12:34.498)
Hmm.
Meeky Hwang (12:39.381)
on the website front end, like the users see, and editorial experiences, like what editors have to do, like the workflow-wise, making sure the workflow is fine so that they can push out the content frequently and easily. And that kind of comes with the developer experience. Developer has to support both audience and editorial experience to make sure the site is up and secure and performing. And at the same time, editors don't have any bottlenecks to push out their content correctly. So...
All three places, all three pillars have to work together in order to have the platform that's resilient.
Steve / Agency Outsight (13:15.106)
Yeah, I guess if you also further dig into that analogy that like if one of those legs of the stool is way longer than the others or shorter than that same stool is wobbly. So you have to have even emphasis on all three of those legs of the stool or pillars of your program. So leaning into media, because that's where your guy's background is, like what are some, you know, making a shift is massive and anybody in the media space that's on like a legacy platform or infrastructure.
Meeky Hwang (13:30.339)
Yeah, exactly.
Steve / Agency Outsight (13:44.23)
What are some of those pain points that you guys look for to help modernize them into the WordPress ecosystem?
Meeky Hwang (13:50.831)
So recently, had, it's funny that the headless used to have kind of like a hot topic or hot trend for a while. So a lot of companies that prematurely just moved to headless because it's a thing to follow. But headless, sometimes you don't really need to go that much because it gives a lot of more layers of complexity. That means that there's more layers of breaking point. So now you have to maintain more than one thing and then
that you have to hire different teams to handle different sections. And there is a connection point that might fail. And then you need to make sure that the caching is not really affecting the other end, the connection points. So it just became a little more convoluted. For the companies that really don't need it, like the web presence, you can pretty much do whatever you want with just WordPress as well. Because React front-end, it's WordPress that back-end is kind of adopting React, although also already.
So you can do that. You don't have to go headless to do that way. So that was one of the examples that now that they over-engineered it, now wanted to bring it back. Because one of the caveats is that if you custom build a headless like that, sometimes there's no natural preview where editors really need to preview it before they push the content. And then that just became an issue. It's one of examples. And then so we have to bring it back to...
just standard WordPress, where you can do the standard things like checking your typos or anything before you roll out and checking your images are in the right place, you're putting out the right images without getting bothered by the cache. One of the examples from our old client that we wanted to bring the headless to WordPress was whenever they update a text, they couldn't see for five, 10 minutes, and they couldn't really reply. They just have to push it because they have to push the content.
media companies have to push the contents frequently. And then sometimes images are just cached, but they can't tell if it was actually cached or if the image that they were putting in was correct. So there's a lot of weird issues that were frustrating the editorial experience. And also, like I said, different layers. Unless you maintain it correctly or you set up correctly, there is more breaking points to every single step.
Meeky Hwang (16:12.047)
Those are the things that we kind of like make sure that WordPress is easier because like for the sites that are simple enough that if you're not sending all these different data points to different type of things like, you know, internet things or other things, if it's just a website, it's actually better and easier to maintain and cost saving for the owner of the company or the department or whatever to maintain it in a WordPress.
Steve / Agency Outsight (16:32.718)
Mm-hmm.
Steve / Agency Outsight (16:40.686)
Yeah. So as a co-founder, you still, and you speak very technically because you've got a tech background, you're in the WordPress community. Are you still day-to-day hands-on in DevOps coding, planning, architectures, things like that? Like what's your kind of day-to-day as a co-founder?
Meeky Hwang (16:56.313)
Yeah, I do jump in and then just kind of like give. So I do code review on some of the projects. I'll be the tech lead for some projects or I'll be the account manager for some of the other projects that we have other people on. But I try to give actual hands-on advice to the developers. And I do have some hands-on experience.
I kind of want to have a little bit of hands on, because it's kind of like a developer's little, I don't know, it's a habit or I don't know, it's like a personality thing that I do like to stay hands on a little bit to kind of know I'm still good or I can still build things. So I would like to keep a little bit of that. it's a little bit intentional and sometimes if there's a client work that needs a like a firework and I need to jump in, then I can jump in.
Steve / Agency Outsight (17:28.611)
Mm-hmm.
Steve / Agency Outsight (17:52.034)
Yeah, I get it. I was raised a designer and as I grew my agency, I designed even less and now I don't have an agency. And so it's like, all right, you know, when I get a chance to, I will design something because I just enjoy it and it's been a long time. for you as a, as a founder striking that balance between, you know, working on the business, working in the business, you know, that's always a challenge for founders. You and Matt have been running the business for a decade now. What's the kind of divide of
roles between the two of you.
Meeky Hwang (18:22.917)
We, yeah, so we try to, so department-wise, we actually divided it, because initially we didn't, and that was one of the mistakes, or this learning experience that when you try to, if you don't divide that, like you try to kind of step on each other's toes, or you're too scared that you might be stepping each other's toes, so like you just kind of stand back, and then the things don't get done. So we divided to do different things. So like I'll be overseeing the marketing and,
some operational stuff and HR portion of it.
Whereas he's going to be overseeing the whole CEO or the financial portion CEO role as well as sales portion of it And then there are some combination of like the account management and then client managements like the client success We kind of like have a hybrid so we'll separate depending on the client by the clients, but that's kind of we oversee it together So we have that division between two of us so that we don't have to step over each other's toe and have more accountability for ourselves
Steve / Agency Outsight (19:25.464)
Did you learn the hard way that you needed that clear delineation between roles so you're trusting one another to do your job and not stepping on each other's Like, how did that come about? Yeah, okay. A lot of partners.
Meeky Hwang (19:35.265)
In the beginning, yes. there's like something that we missed. And then I was like, wait, I thought you're doing it. No, I thought you're doing it. So like there were one of those. Yeah.
Steve / Agency Outsight (19:45.408)
Yeah, yeah, that's very common with partnerships. So, you know, let's just get to work and we'll do cool stuff together. And we got a client, yay, let's split the money down the middle. And then it's like, wait, who's doing that? I you were doing it. No, I thought you were. Yeah. So having clear roles defined is essential in any partnership, no matter how many partners there are. And then trusting, you know, emphatically to have the autonomy to you're handling marketing. I trust you. You'll bounce things off of me as needed, but I trust you to make those decisions.
your co-founders, so that trust has to be super deep. Yeah. So you do a lot of speaking. Is it mostly at WordCamps or is it like, are the range of topics that you're talking about?
Meeky Hwang (20:17.903)
Yeah.
Meeky Hwang (20:29.157)
Yeah, it is. Because I was doing a lot more talks on technical stuff before. I'm actually trying to spread out to do more of the leadership type of speaking as well. because of like it was very, very, I was talking a lot more technical stuff. It was more on the technical side of it. But we're trying to like do more speaking in like a broader world. It's like a business or like entrepreneurship or things like that.
Steve / Agency Outsight (20:55.414)
Yeah. Are you doing anything as far as like helping with career skills, strategies and trends for success or mentorship or things like that?
Meeky Hwang (21:05.221)
I have for the employees, I wasn't directly looking for it because it's a big responsibility if you think about it. So I want to be little cautious of that. But if there are people who used to work with me or the coworkers who need some guidance or some of my opinions, I'll talk to them. But I don't actually go out and say, like, oh, I'm going to mentor you type of thing anymore.
Steve / Agency Outsight (21:27.148)
Yeah, do you guys have an internship program or anything like that at Endeavor?
Meeky Hwang (21:30.533)
Not right now, but we were thinking about it, but we haven't really, it's also a work to kind of make sure that we want to be helpful for them too. So like it's a program that we need to spend some time to actually architect it. So because of that, we didn't get a chance to actually do it, but we talked about it for a few years, but we never really got a chance to do that.
Steve / Agency Outsight (21:52.714)
It's challenging having interns because it's got to be like very symbiotic, like, most interns can't really, whether it's design or marketing or development, deliver work that you can ship. And it's like, well, that was a great try, but we're going to go with our senior developers work because it actually works. know, so it's a tough balance where you want to teach and give back, but you also want them to contribute to client facing work and, you know, things that are going to make money for the agency.
Meeky Hwang (22:07.621)
way.
Meeky Hwang (22:18.309)
Yeah, yeah, so it was, I'm sorry, but, oh yeah, it was one of the things that when we were starting, Matt had the thing about like, know, fostering developers in the different areas, like people who doesn't have ability to get there. That's still, we still kind of talk about it, but we never really got a chance to actually do it, but it's still kind of in the radar that maybe like once we get a little more comfortable, have a little more time, I don't know if that's ever gonna happen, then we'll.
Steve / Agency Outsight (22:22.637)
Good.
Meeky Hwang (22:47.993)
We'll see that as well.
Steve / Agency Outsight (22:50.23)
Yeah, so 10 years in, you guys are well-nitched. You've got a good name in the media space, in the WordPress space. What's next as far as shifts for the agency or things on the horizon for you as a leader? Where do you see things shifting for you?
Meeky Hwang (23:06.629)
I don't know if it's a shift, obviously AI is a big thing these days. We wanted to adopt it so that it will make it.
Well, everything efficient because we're just starting to learn it too and just adopt it in the development workflow as well as what we can do with the clients. So those are the ones that we're kind of doing more research and doing some data testing of the rolling out a little product and things like that. So that's our next thing to just kind of incubating in a way. But that's something that we also want to adopt because obviously efficiency is a big thing, especially as a small agency. So that's the next thing that we're looking at.
closely.
Steve / Agency Outsight (23:44.343)
Have you built your own products or your own IP for efficiencies in the past?
Meeky Hwang (23:50.039)
Not just internally, just testing out, but we haven't really rolled out publicly. So we're actually just testing out. just want to better testing for called contents here. So we'll see if that's going to be helpful for our clients. So we wanted to see if we can push that out for our clients.
Steve / Agency Outsight (24:06.73)
What's its function, its core function?
Meeky Hwang (24:09.221)
So co-function is to help the SEO and then also creating contents like a topic search and things like that. So it gives you score. It's kind of like analyzed by AI based on your client base. And then you can create the persona for your target audience as well. So you pretty much handle that part. And then there's like a click of a button to get your score recommendation on SEO wise. And then also if you, they'll recommend a topic based on the research and then based on the topic title, can create.
based on the topic, can create the titles of blog posts that you can put out and then generate a draft of it so you can just clean it up. So, yeah.
Steve / Agency Outsight (24:48.782)
Very cool, very cool. It's very targeted. So it's WordPress, it's media, it's publishing, and that's where you guys live. So makes perfect sense. Yeah, so I wanna wrap up with a couple of random rapid fire questions. It's what I do, but I'm gonna throw a fourth one in because I'm curious. So leading into it, the first is just thinking about, again, FEMON, FNORSHIP, and being a trailblazer. It's just something that you've done. Is there any sage advice that you wanna offer other, you
Meeky Hwang (24:57.508)
Yeah.
Steve / Agency Outsight (25:17.494)
Aspiring female entrepreneurs or women in tech that you've learned along the
Meeky Hwang (25:22.629)
I think this is one of the things I realized I had done earlier is like getting into a group like a Mr. Mind type of group and that
really help me grow faster. getting to know a lot of other people, so I joined an entrepreneur group a couple years ago called YEC. I recently joined Forbes Agency Council. So those type of masterminds, you get to meet a lot of people that you get really inspired from and then also resonate with. So those things I wish I'd done earlier. So finding a mastermind group to have a group that you can also relate to and talk to is a huge plus.
So I wish I'd done that earlier, but now that I've done it, I really cherish that.
Steve / Agency Outsight (26:09.59)
Yeah, so EO is very generalist as far as businesses. Have you found value in being just with female entrepreneurs or just with agency owners or business owners in general?
Meeky Hwang (26:20.197)
I think all three, for one, I looked at EO as well, then I think when I moved, they didn't really have a chapter here, so I didn't get to join, but in YAC as well, because they have a group for like women entrepreneurs, and I got to meet a lot of people there, there's also the technical people, so I got to bounce ideas, and then I get their...
Steve / Agency Outsight (26:21.838)
Okay.
Meeky Hwang (26:41.689)
feedback and even any little things that I was looking for. Like, hey, I'm actually looking for a marketing agency that can help me with this and I'll get a lot of feedback from them. So it was very helpful. And then I just recently joined Forbes Agency Council, so I haven't really got too much experience yet, but then I'm actually kind of excited to see what's going to happen there.
Steve / Agency Outsight (27:03.662)
Yeah, cool. Awesome. I'm also a huge proponent of mastermind groups, pure bass mastermind groups. So I fully second, third and fourth that because also a big fan of that. So all right, here's the rapid fire question. Don't be nervous. So if you're doing karaoke, what's your go-to song or what's a song you would never sing?
Meeky Hwang (27:22.021)
I'm not a karaoke person. Oddly, but I don't know. I mean, there are songs that I like. I can just say that. But yeah, I don't know if I can be a karaoke song. The song that comes to my mind is I'm Still Standing from Elton John, actually. Yeah.
Steve / Agency Outsight (27:42.846)
Love it. Perfect. What's a skill or hobby that you picked up recently that's outside of tech?
Meeky Hwang (27:50.405)
I didn't pick it up yet, but I was just interested. I wanted to see if I can grow beehives in the back to kind of get honey locally. So I'm actually looking to get some research on what it takes to actually have it in my house. So that's going to be my new hobby for next year.
Steve / Agency Outsight (28:07.822)
I fully support that don't do it in the house do it in the yard, but yeah, totally do it Florida honey, I don't know that I've heard of such a thing, but I'm sure it exists There's got to be tons of what do they call apiaries down there?
Meeky Hwang (28:21.667)
Yeah, yeah, I actually looked it up and then just like, they actually have like, you have to get a license and then they give you the list of contacts that I can reach out to see. So I have to learn it first. So obviously, so but no, but yeah, I mean, local honey is supposed to be really good for you. Like it kind of eliminates your allergies and things like that. So I'm excited to learn that.
Steve / Agency Outsight (28:33.006)
and hopefully you're not allergic to bees.
Steve / Agency Outsight (28:43.254)
Yay, I can't wait to hear an update. And then finally, if you could instantly fix one common mistake that organizations make with their tech stack, what would it be?
Meeky Hwang (28:54.917)
Hexter.
I have to think about this.
Meeky Hwang (29:04.357)
Thank
fix is like well I want them to make sure they have the actual code version control and quality control in place. It's interesting to know that a lot of companies don't have it so like you know having Git and then the workflow to have a CIC, the Continuous Integration and Inclusion Development, that's a huge so like it's not necessarily changing it but when I see that it's not there it's immediate thing that I want to change.
So I don't know if that answers your question, but that's one thing I can come up with right now.
Steve / Agency Outsight (29:38.606)
Yeah, no, that fits perfectly. Mickey, it was great to spend some time with you. I love what you and Matt have done with Endeavor. Again, I'm inspired by you and I'm sure tons of other as female entrepreneur and a leader in tech. So thank you for being courageous in doing that and continuing to do what you do on stage and off stage. So thank you again for joining me today.
Meeky Hwang (30:00.133)
All right, thanks for having me.