Ep 153 – Juliana Marulanda, Scaletime – You Can’t Scale Chaos
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Featuring: Juliana Marulanda, Scaletime
In episode 153, I sit down with Juliana Marulanda, founder of ScaleTime, who's helped over 1,000 agencies turn themselves into lean, profitable businesses that don't depend on the owner being in every room.
We get into what "scale" actually means once you strip away the buzzword — her SCALE framework for seeing what's happening, building a baseline, amplifying with systems and AI, leading and delegating, and designing an exit on your own terms. Juliana shares why so many agencies stall at the same revenue marks, why managers without systems can't move the needle, and how to bookend AI with human strategy and human review.
If you've ever felt chained to a business you started because you loved the work, this one's about getting your choice back. Juliana makes a grounded case that freedom isn't a vague promise — it's the ability to decide what you do with your day, and to build a business that runs whether you're there or not.
Key Bytes
• Scale isn't a vanity word — it's the ability to choose what you do with your day instead of being chained to the work you started.
• Most owners stall around $1.2–1.3M because they overthink instead of just doing the sales and getting cash in the door.
• Crossing $3M takes managers, but managers can't manage without systems to run and performance to measure.
• Reaching eight figures takes leaders who can set direction without you — which means delegating strategy, the scariest handoff of all.
• AI isn't set-it-and-forget-it; it's create, manage, and iterate, with a human bookending both the strategy and the quality check.
• Build to sell even if you never sell — because the exit isn't always your choice, and a sellable business is a well-run one.
• Running on guesswork and gut catches up with you; visibility and metrics are what let managers manage and owners step back.
• Freedom of choice beats "freedom" as a slogan — design the business around the life you want, not the other way around.
Chapters
00:00 The ScaleTime origin story
01:13 From Wall Street to running million-dollar event ops
04:30 Why nobody wants to manage
05:43 The trends reshaping agencies right now
10:23 The four levels of AI adoption
13:00 Bookending AI with human strategy and review
14:02 Defining scale and the SCALE framework
19:09 Optionality and designing freedom of choice
22:18 The inflection points where agencies get stuck
28:30 Rapid-fire questions and closing thoughts
With over 20 years of experience across Wall Street, the nonprofit sector, technology startups, and family-owned businesses, Juliana Marulanda, founder at ScaleTime, has served over1k+ digital agencies. Featured by Forbes and Entrepreneur, Juliana helps uplevel businesses into lean, mean, profitable machines. On average, she and her team create ways to free up at least 30 hours per week for her clients so they can have successful agencies that run without them. Founders can find themselves saying “I do what I want, how I want, whenever I want” - Now that is freedom. Juliana is passionate about providing audiences with invaluable tools that they can use instantly to start improving their business. Her wealth of agency growth secrets and expertise in growth management will put agency owners and marketers on the path to scaling a business.
Connect with Juliana on LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, her website, or get her Scale Map here.
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Steve Guberman (00:01.332)
Welcome to Agency Bites. I'm your host, Steve Guberman from Agency Outside, where I help agency owners build the business of their dreams. This week, I'm joined by Juliana Marrallanda, founder of Scale Time. With over a thousand digital agencies served, Juliana helps founders turn their businesses into lean, profitable machines, often freeing up to 30 hours a week so they can run their business without them. She's been featured in Forbes and Entrepreneur. She's passionate about giving agency owners practical tools they can immediately use to scale smarter.
Julianna, it's great to have you here. Thanks for being with
Juliana Marulanda (00:33.39)
I'm so excited to be here.
Steve Guberman (00:35.456)
I feel like I undersold you in that intro because I've watched you from the periphery for a number of years now. think even before I launched this business, maybe, and I've just admired the impact you've had on agency owners. And so I don't think I did justice in, in what I said, you've built a community, you've built software and platforms and tools and like the impact. so I really want to dig into like what you've really been doing.
but also like it's it's shifted so kind of give your background of what led up to you starting scale time and what you've been doing with it.
Juliana Marulanda (01:13.742)
Yeah, for sure. So I will say it was a long and happy accident. So I started off, you know, off of college like 20 some years ago, looking at spreadsheets on Wall Street for 16 hours a day and didn't love it. Was it like my favorite thing? You know, but that's what you did back then, right? Like when you were a New Yorker, you
And you were smart like you went to Wall Street or you know like you got the finance job and you did the thing and and so I ended that pretty pretty quickly about like after a year and then I went into sports and entertainment venues because I've always been super high-energy right and It was
Steve Guberman (01:59.425)
Mm-hmm.
Juliana Marulanda (02:03.086)
I don't know, like back in the day, if you can imagine like a traveling sales person, I was like a traveling ops person. And so they would drop me off in a new city about every four to six weeks. And it was a new event, right? So think Superbowl, USTA.
Steve Guberman (02:10.132)
Interesting.
Juliana Marulanda (02:21.986)
writer cup, right? And the gig was go and interview about 100 people a day, like speed interviewing and get your team of 50 to 70 in about three days off of these hiring fairs.
train them across these massive stadiums and venues that were like, you know, a mile long or whatever, 1.7 kilometers. my metric system's still bad. So, right, like, your resources are completely dispersed, right? Train them for two days and then go operate a million dollars a week, more or less. Rinse, wash, repeat. And...
Steve Guberman (02:47.553)
Mm-hmm.
Steve Guberman (02:51.276)
No.
Juliana Marulanda (03:06.024)
I didn't like managing because I did not know how to manage. did not know.
doing right it was like at the beginning let's say at the beginning now i love to manage and i love to develop people and love to see them grow and you know get promoted and all that jazz but back then i was like i what i didn't know was you know i knew systems i knew processes and i knew numbers right so i was like okay we can hit our goals with these things even though you know i was not a great manager per se at the beginning
Steve Guberman (03:11.83)
Mm-hmm.
Juliana Marulanda (03:40.586)
But I learned, right? And so, and these were sort of the training wheels for really doing it at scale because we had to go and dismantle, you know, after a week, after two weeks, and then rinse, wash, repeat. So I did that at the next location. Yeah, it was just go, go, go. Most times, you you give yourself.
Steve Guberman (03:53.918)
next at the next location you mean? Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Juliana Marulanda (04:01.741)
a of years to ramp up like that, but this was just insane. So we scaled that scale if it were. And when I started the business, what I had noticed is that people do not like to manage.
Right. They're like, you know, I started this business and either like I'm a fantastic rainmaker or I'm a fantastic, you know, sort of technician like tinker, you know, person that likes to like do the R and D bit. But like HR people, emotions development. Ew. Like I want to do this. And so, you know, I really developed, I wanted to develop something.
a service where people could really scale their agencies. And I wanted to work with agencies at the beginning because they were really on the vanguard of what...
traditional org charts looked like, right? We were talking about strategic partnerships, full-time, part-time, freelancers, contractors, nearshoring, offshoring, like all the things. And yet we had to use tools, digital tools, in order, right, like project management, CRM, all of these tools to make work happen. And for me, I was like, okay, well, how do we get people to basically deliver on time every time?
and how do we create teams that can scale, especially where they're geographically independent, they're organizationally flexible. And so that was my big challenge. That's why I started Scale Time. And we've been working with over 1,000 agencies. And I love it. This is what I geek out on.
Steve Guberman (05:43.969)
Yeah, it sounds, I mean, you can hear the passion in your voice about, right, let's stop managing, let's build systems. Like nobody wants to deal with people other than the people people want to deal with people. yeah, talk, talk about some of the things that you've seen trend wise in the last year in dealing with so many agencies, whether it's, you know, revenue plateau or, you know, the nearshoring, offshoring AI integration. What are some of the trends that you've seen that are like really shifting the industry forward?
Juliana Marulanda (05:53.101)
Hahaha
Juliana Marulanda (06:13.197)
Yeah, I mean, think one of the biggest trends is, I would say from a macro standpoint, there is sort of a hesitancy with the economy, right? It's kind of like, what is going to happen? We don't know. And
And I would say 2024 was a weird year economically for a lot of agencies where what I had seen in 2024 was a lot of downsizing. So a lot of scaling down in 2024. And I think that was sort of like riff off the pandemic, things had gotten sort of stable, labor had gotten relatively stable, right? Because if we remember a couple of years ago, labor was really crazy, like on board.
packages and hiring packages were like people wanted like they were trying to compete with like Tesla going into Austin and all the stuff and you know and it was it's crazy it was like people wanted like two weeks vacation paid in Tahiti and shit like that and it was just like no we can't afford that so I think 2024 was sort of a reckoning for a lot of owners who were like I need to get paid like I'm kind of tired of getting you know of the agency
doing the best that they could to survive the ones that survived. And now it was sort of like the owners taking ownership of like what they wanted and their take home and their peace of mind. So that was an interesting year for a lot of agencies. think last year, like the dust settled, then with, know, depending if you were like election dependent or not, things, you know, whether the economy, the...
Steve Guberman (07:39.02)
Mm-hmm.
Juliana Marulanda (08:02.967)
consumer habits, I think there was a lot of hesitancy. We saw sales cycles start to get more leveled, I would say, from 2024. 2024 sales cycles were very long. I think they somewhat got leveled, but then AI came in, right? So I think one of the biggest trends that we've seen sort of disrupting what things look like is
how do you embed AI into your processes and into your communication, right? So I don't necessarily think AI was replacing any specific roles, but what it did do was make roles more efficient and more effective for those companies that are, you know, sort of absorbing AI into their
organizations and so like now one person that was doing one specific job can now maybe do two right or maybe three so so we do start seeing sort of a consolidation of the roles and then how we speak about AI or how agencies are speaking about AI because
They're dealing with clients being like, well, I don't want our stuff to sound like AI, but are you using AI? But we don't, we're afraid of AI. But, you know, are you going to lower costs because you're using AI? Right. So it's like, so I think there's also sort of this communication challenge of how do we speak to our use or power by AI.
keep our prices and at the same time, know, sort of like how do we manage our workforce to create the automations and how do we make it so that our stuff is it basically a regurgitation of everything else that's out there, you know, and stay competitive. So I think a big trend is we're seeing agencies that are
Juliana Marulanda (10:03.021)
are super AI focused, doing really well, and agencies who are super creative outside of the AI bubble doing really well. And everyone else in between is kind of dealing with how do we integrate without losing our footing and staying competitive.
Steve Guberman (10:23.52)
Yeah, I see the same. have identified it as there's these four levels of kind of AI adoption. There's those that are absolutely afraid of it. They're almost in denial that this cliff is coming towards them and they're either going to get run over frozen in their boots or they're going to bail out and maybe do a fire sale or shut it down or go get a job or whatever. Then there's those that are curious and maybe they're playing around with like using prompts or using GPT instead of Google for simple answers.
Third level is they're leaning into it for automation. And this is what I think really helps with scalability and resource ability and being able to roadmap better. building out automations, building out even generative AI tools, leaning into it, but not production ready stuff. And then the fourth level is they're finding challenges that their clients have and they're building AI enabled solutions for them. So they're selling AI into their clients. And again, whether that's generative AI,
Juliana Marulanda (11:21.024)
Mm-hmm.
Steve Guberman (11:23.068)
Gentic AI like whatever tools they're using and building upon they're the far most advanced and so I hope more are pushing towards the third and fourth level But I'm seeing it all over the place and I do think that third level is really where the scalability comes from So if we can build automation tools onboarding tools better, you know usability and Resourcing tools things like that using AI
I think that will help with scalability, which is what you're all about. So, yeah.
Juliana Marulanda (11:55.244)
Yes, 100%. And I often caution people, it's AI is not a set it and forget it. AI is a create, manage, and iterate, especially because it's constantly changing.
Steve Guberman (12:03.885)
Mm-hmm.
Steve Guberman (12:07.373)
Exactly.
Steve Guberman (12:11.233)
Yeah, there's new. What are they? What are they calling them? Not new tools, but new versions of the tools. I figure there's a specific word they use for the versioning of the tools. Whatever so every every week it's coming out so you have to learn like we were using Sona last week or whatever it's called and now we're using this version or that version and so you know constantly you know there's gotta be a culture of not just iteration but exploration and curiosity and learning and testing and.
Juliana Marulanda (12:28.79)
Mm-hmm.
Steve Guberman (12:37.965)
you know, to your point earlier, like, you take one person and now expand them into two or three roles? Like yes, but also there still needs to be that senior level of accountability and there still needs to be that senior level of review because most things are just not production ready, whether it's software or creative generative AI or copywriting or whatever. Like there's gotta be that, that really scrutiny, scrutinous review.
Juliana Marulanda (13:00.685)
Yeah, and I often talk about it as like bookmarking. I mean, not bookmarking, bookending your AI, right? So you need something that is strategic in the beginning of whether you're building a workflow automation or whether you're
building, you know, sort of continent scale, right? Like we need someone, we need a human in the beginning to, you know, to sort of bookend the strategy and the direction that you want your AI to go into. And then you need a human at the end, right? To be able to do the quality assurance and the management of it, you know, before it hits either clients or the market or whatnot. So I'm really big on sort of bookending the AI.
even if you built workflows because it's important to make sure that you have consistency of a product and your brand is being represented the way that you want it to be.
Steve Guberman (14:02.753)
Yeah, I love that. want to dissect scale because it's your specialty. And I think that it is almost a toxic buzzword that's often like too overhyped. And I think that scale is, something that can be very healthy, but you talk a lot about like what needs to happen in order to scale and what does scale look like? And so from your standpoint, like, how do you define scale?
Juliana Marulanda (14:09.217)
Mm-hmm.
Juliana Marulanda (14:32.589)
So we've created a framework around scale. And I'll quickly kind of share it with you, and then we can go into it. So the essence scale is to see what is happening. Because oftentimes, we're running blind, or our team is running blind, or we have blind spots. So we got to really see what is happening. Then we've got to create a baseline. So whether it's our own baseline, or it's an industry benchmark, or whatnot.
we've got to put together point of references so that we not only know where our goals are, but also like what is our starting point and so we can figure out those gaps, right? Then it's amplifying how you're doing things, which is, you know, really if it is automations or AI or tech or visibility or communication or culture, right? Like we are now like we understand that gap so we can
amplify how we're doing things to make things more efficient. Then it's about leading and delegating. I think this was so important. So oftentimes we'll put in managers but not leaders. Or we, and then we're like, my God, why am I doing their job? And so, right? And then also delegation and there's, you know.
There's delegation pipelines. There's things that are easy delegate and harder to delegate. But eventually, if you want out, you've got to be able to delegate everything and make yourself rather redundant. You have to be able to delete yourself. And then the last piece is about exiting and overseeing. And exiting, you know.
Steve Guberman (16:23.437)
Mm-hmm.
Juliana Marulanda (16:26.197)
And at different points of scale, there's different points of exit, right? Sometimes you just want to be able to exit nights and weekends, right? Like if you're working 80 hours a week, you want to spend time with your kids, you got to be able to exit nights and weekends and just trust that the work is going to happen or build the efficiencies as you amplify it in that section so that you can.
you know, if you want to exit, like you want to set up like, okay, your business as a cash business to exit because
Either you want to retire and you know, it's a family-owned business or if you want to like sell it or whatever the case is right like I'm really big on you building to sell because and sometimes the exit is not your choice, right? Like sometimes a family member gets sick and you've got an exit to go take care of them Sometimes you get sick and you gotta go take care of yourself so like I'm a very big on built to sell because you don't know what an exit is
going to happen, whether, you know, and hopefully you're designing that exit. And also if you're exiting for sale, you want to make your business as sellable as possible and you want to get the biggest ROI.
Right? But the oversight, right? Sometimes people forget the oversight. It's like, do we have our metrics? Do we know our performance? Are things clear? Because whether you want to be on the golf course, on a Tuesday, checking out how your business is doing, which is great. Or if you have investors or there's an acquisition happening, people are going to want to see your numbers. You're going to want to see your numbers. People are going to want to see your numbers.
Juliana Marulanda (18:11.029)
your managers to manage from numbers. So that oversight is super important. And the last thing that I will say about scale from a, you know, just sort of high level view is that, you know, sometimes you're scaling the entire business and sometimes you're scaling a portion of it, right? Sometimes you're like, we got to scale our team. And what does that look like, right? That looks like, crap, like we're hiring 20 people a quarter.
that happens, right? Or we're hiring two a quarter. So it depends, right? It's all relative, but it's the same sort of framework applies. Sometimes you're like, all right, we really got to scale our revenue because we're growing a sales team, yada, yada, yada. Or we're scaling our profits, right? We got to make this more efficient. So depending on where you're choosing to scale, right? And economies of scale, we're still using the same framework.
Steve Guberman (18:40.045)
Mm-hmm. Right. It's all relative.
Steve Guberman (19:09.121)
I love that. And it sounds like, so from my perspective in the work that I get to do with clients, it's in the same direction that when your business is just a really well-run business, you have the optionality of, I want to keep running it? How, know, my redundancy or am I bored or do I not know what I need, where I, where I should work today? Should I just go fishing or can I focus on and A or can I exit whatever that exit looks like?
But the first, I guess, the SC and A in scale for you is like building the baseline, building the systems, building the things that are going to get me out of the day to day. I guess even the L, because now I'm delegating, You know, learning to teach people to lead and putting people in place. And so that gives that optionality of what do I want to do with this versus I'm chained to this business and I'm working 50, 60 hours a week.
Juliana Marulanda (19:35.595)
Mm-hmm.
Juliana Marulanda (19:47.893)
Mm-hmm.
Steve Guberman (20:02.347)
because I just wanted to do graphic design or just wanted to do code and now I'm chained to this thing that's not even an asset.
Juliana Marulanda (20:09.389)
Yeah, absolutely. I don't know, I'm really, I think people throw the word freedom around a lot, know, like, oh, I want, you know, freedom, agency freedom. But for me, it's freedom of choice. It's being able to choose, like, what is it that you want to do? Right? And some people are, like, super content. They're like, you know what, I just kind of want to be the art director.
of the organization, right? I mean, I still want to own it, but like, I want to be able to create like those really cool, sexy projects and direct them. I'm like, okay, get yourself to a place where you can cherry pick your projects, but make sure that the rest of it is running. And I think that's really important is to have that choice of what is it that you want to do and then design your business to create the life that you want, not the other way around.
Steve Guberman (21:01.665)
Yeah, that's exactly the framework that I dig into. it's often I launched this business because I love doing fill in the blank, but now fast forward two, three, five years, I'm not doing that thing because to our very first point of conversation, now I'm managing people, not even processes. And I'm in the weeds of being a manager. And so what is it that I want to do? What percentage of my time do I want to spend doing that? And then how do I put the right people and processes in place so I can come in and say,
Yeah, I don't want to do that project. It looks kind of boring, but that one looks really cool. Let's do that. Yeah, that's the most successful clients that I've worked with. That's their definition of success. It's not revenue. It's not EBITDA. It's not, you know, it's like work life balance. Absolutely. But it's also like, how well is this business running and what am I doing with my day? And yeah, so.
Juliana Marulanda (21:51.278)
Absolutely. A lot of the clients that I work with, they just kind of want to create cool shit. That's sort of like their main goal. That's the marker of what's the cool thing I'm working on. And can the rest of it subsist? Usually my family, my team, and the ecosystem that I've created. I think that's pretty awesome.
Steve Guberman (22:18.507)
Yeah. What do you see as like the biggest hang up or or I guess road bump or you want to call it for founder to get themselves out of the way?
Juliana Marulanda (22:29.613)
So I would say it kind of, there's, it depends on the different inflection points, right? So I would say there's sort of like these different plateaus. There's like the 1.3 plateau and it's a dash to cash. Usually the biggest hang up there is overthinking. Like you really just need to do the freaking thing, right? Like just get it done, do the sales, make the phone calls, like, you know, just get cash. You know, it's...
Like that's usually the biggest from 1.3, right? I just get it. Afterwards, 3 million is the next inflection point. Sort of if we're talking about like six, seven, and eight figures. That inflection point is a T. You need managers.
right, whether it's account managers, a project manager, you know, you like what got you to sort of cross that million dollar mark? Is it going to get you to cost the three? I have no, I think I quantified it once. I was like, like 56 % of the people that I would talk to on sales calls were stuck like 1.2, 1.3.
Like, which is why created this like one point I was like, statistically it's significant. It was just like, you know, and they've been stuck there for three, five, 20 years. And it's like, we need managers in place. And, and I think that the, most difficult thing to get managers in place is we need systems. Right. In place for the managers to be able to run and manage performance. Right. Cause like, what are managers doing? They're managing client results and performance.
Steve Guberman (23:50.69)
Wow.
Juliana Marulanda (24:09.791)
And so we need them to have systems in place so that there's collaboration. Things are easier. It's facilitated. And this is also where we need the ability to start to measure performance.
people will get stuck because they're not measuring performance. There's no visibility on, you know, it's like either you're growing too quickly or things are getting stale and you're like, I'm hiring people, but holy crap, our results are starting to go down. I can feel it. There's a lot of, you know, running the business off of guesswork and gut work and
Steve Guberman (24:53.069)
Mm-hmm.
Juliana Marulanda (24:56.235)
You know, this is where I'm like, need to start tracking numbers and we need to start getting performance in place. And I would say that's one of the biggest things. It's like you have managers, but now you need your managers to manage the performance of that thing that you gave them to do so that you're not stuck doing it. And.
Steve Guberman (25:16.119)
Yeah. So dashboarding and tracking metrics of baseline. Like you said, there's the baseline creating that baseline and what are our expectations? Yeah.
Juliana Marulanda (25:22.761)
Yeah, absolutely. And then there's the other inflection point, which is around the seven to 10, where you're trying to cross that eight million. I mean, that eight figure mark, right for and and that usually is a combination of culture, right? Because at that point, you really need leaders to lead. Right.
You had managers, right? You might have managers, but now you need leaders, right? You need leaders who can set direction without you, which is hard, right? Because you're like, crap, like I'm so used to setting the direction, right? I'm so used to doing the strategy. Right? Like, you know, I'm so used to saying like, you know, this is what should happen and why. And so now you're delegating strategy and that is scary.
Right? Because now you're really deleting yourself off of like that top echelon, you know, highest ROI stuff that you can possibly do, but you need people that can, that can set direction. means leadership. Right? So you like, that's where, all of the HR systems become so much more important. Right? Like the, the human, like the people operations become so much more important. Right? Making sure that the organization.
is a living breathing organism that functions, that there's a good culture, that people are staying, that you're not getting glass reviews of the ass that are bad, right? Like this is the stuff that, you know, your reputation management as a brand, not only for clients, but for talent.
Steve Guberman (27:00.685)
Yeah.
Juliana Marulanda (27:02.541)
is so big, right? So I would say that's where culture really matters, leadership really matters, and if you didn't put that metrics and performance in place at the three million, like now you really need it. Like as you're going into eight figures, like we need to have sources of truth because we need your leaders to be able to lead from a place of values because that's gonna affect your culture, but also performance.
so that you can really grow.
Steve Guberman (27:34.968)
Yeah, I love that. And those are all things that need to start early on, like at the million dollar mark, like the maturity level of an agency starts there. And these are the things you're talking about, the systems that need to be able to scale with the business as it grows. And it's not just dollar signs. Excuse me. You know, it's how are we hiring and evaluating based on values? How are we putting the org chart in place to flesh out the support systems that every other, that every department needs? And how is leadership?
Juliana Marulanda (27:51.021)
you
Steve Guberman (28:04.365)
building that out and getting out of the micromanagement in the day to day. Still setting the vision, more 50,000 square foot or foot view versus thousand view. Yeah, exciting stuff. Like I I admire what you're doing. I'm grateful for you to share some of your insight on scale and what you're doing with scale time with the audience. I want to wrap up real quick with a couple of rapid fire questions because they're a lot of fun. So first is,
What's a tool or a gadget that you use day to day that you other than AI, by the way, that you look back and you think, how the heck did I live without this thing?
Juliana Marulanda (28:43.309)
I'm a big fan of whimsical. Whimsical is a tool that allows you to do flow charts and things like that, obviously because I'm a massive nerd about these things, but I love it because it's really fast. I'm really big on speed when it comes to tech, and that is one of my favorites.
Steve Guberman (29:06.485)
Interesting. What is a belief that you held strongly five years ago that you've completely changed your mind about today?
Juliana Marulanda (29:19.947)
I think a belief was not that social media was relevant, but that it wasn't as important to our business as much as selling. But now I believe that if you don't have some level of social media footprint, people don't even know if your business is alive. So, yeah.
Steve Guberman (29:43.117)
Interesting. Yeah, they're using that just to see if you have a pulse. Yeah.
Juliana Marulanda (29:46.431)
Exactly. It's like, so it's like, okay. Yeah.
Steve Guberman (29:48.898)
Yeah.
What's a book that was monumentally changing for you either from a life standpoint or business standpoint?
Juliana Marulanda (29:59.637)
I, this is not one that I think gets a lot of love, but I love things for the feedback. It's, especially because I deal with so much people who are in management. And I think that's a really good one. that like, it really teaches you how to give feedback and how to take feedback and people's biases around feedback.
Steve Guberman (30:06.125)
Hmm.
Juliana Marulanda (30:24.651)
which I think is super important in any sort of organization at any level.
Steve Guberman (30:32.097)
Yeah, biases are massive. I'm trying to eliminate them and understand where they're coming from. And yeah, I'll have to check that one out. I do not know. It's not on my radar. awesome. Joyana, thank you so much for joining us. Folks, scale time. All the links are in the show notes. Check her out. Check out our community. And thank you again for your time today.
Juliana Marulanda (30:40.813)
No, it's one of my favorites.
Juliana Marulanda (30:53.84)
thank you so much for having me here. I'm very excited to be able to speak with your audience.
Steve Guberman (30:58.274)
Yay.